Olive, glad to see you're still out there. By the way, what county are you in? What are people saying about all of this?

OK. Here's my early prediction, which I will promptly disavow should I prove to be wrong. I think Gore will prevail. Bush will have a hard time claiming victory in Florida so long as people are still peering at punch cards all over Florida. Gore is expected to pick up a few thousand votes with the recounts. The Secretary of State will "ignore" the manual counts, leading to a lawsuit that goes to the Florida Supreme Court, which will declare that the manual counts can't be ignored because they were conducted pursuant to Florida law. The U.S. Supreme Court will reject Bush's arguments out of hand because this is a matter for Florida to decide. Thus, President Gore.

Gore is like a vampire. You can't kill him unless you drive a stake through his heart. There was doubt he would win the nomination, but he does. He closes Bush's 17 point lead in the polls. He survived his dreadful debate performances. Bush's DWI catches up with him. The networks call the race while the Florida panhandle is still voting. Gore was 3 points behind in the popular vote polls on election day, but wins it by a hair. The weather is good on election day nationwide, so people turn out. Nader voters in swing states get weak knees in the voting booth. He gets the chance to retract his concession speech. The first recount closes the gap substantially, and every manual recount save one has given him a few more votes.

I'm starting to feel sorry for Bush. He's a nice guy. His people pointed him in the wrong direction by not filing for a statewide manual recount, or at least recounts in Republican strongholds. Instead, they had him file in federal court citing grounds that even I knew were entirely frivolous. The Bush folks gambled that they could intimidate Gore into conceding. They didn't know they were dealing with a vampire.

First, good for you Rudy, you have values. Next, has anyone of you democrat supporters realized to what extent algore would go to "win?' this election? His "dirty trick"tactics so far, should be a clue to how he will conduct himself in the presidency. - God forbid - What on earth has happened to morals and decency in this country? Maybe, I know - b.c.

Cindy, I'm in Hillsborough County. We have a punch ballot too, but no call for a recount. But then, Hillsborough went Republican.

Your predictions are right on and pretty much what I expect will happen as well. Agreed, Bush should have insisted on his own recounts--big error. Of course if the entire state did a manual recount there's no telling when they'd finish. They could conceivably miss the Dec 18 deadline then all FL's votes would be tossed out. Al wins again. If all counties were recounted, instead of select heavily Demo counties, my guess is that Bush would have won, by a slim margin of course.

Love the vampire analogy, good! gt;

As far as the way people feel here...it runs the gamut of what's been suggested everywhere. Most everyone I know, whether a Gore or Bush supporter, feels it needs to be over with and fast...no protracted suits, and that whoever prolongs it now is truly the loser. Some resentment is building toward the lawyers and politicians who have come in from out of state and are directing our officials efforts at resolving this. It's hardly our will being done now, it's theirs. I imagine the rest of the country looks at this area as populated by bigoted bumbling buffons. First Elian, now this.

I've OD'd on the events and the coverage--and it was ruling my mood, so I've made a concerted effort to get away from it since last Friday with success until today, when rain began falling on the sunshine state, keeping me home.

Knowing you're a Gore supporter, I appreciate your measured thoughtful and non partisan approach to the issues at hand. It is so refreshing!

Hey Kal, good to hear from you. Hope you have a great visit to Kauai. It's bound to be wetter this year, but just as beautiful.

Kauai no ka oi! We love it there. We usually stay in a private cabin in Kokee for a few nights of "roughing it", and follow it with a stay at the Princeville. A Repo friend of mine (with whom I've been debating this election thing over the past few weeks, and who happened to head the local McCain committee) told me his girlfriend and family ran into Al Gore at one of the trails on Kokee. Isn't that a coincidence? Said he was a nice guy. Introduced himself and Tipper. Just thought I'd share a bi-partisan Kauai story.

Fascinating commentary from Dale Bumpers, George Mitchell and Al Simpson tonight on PBS. Simpson suggested this might end up in the (US) Supreme Court. I thought it interesting that a Republican would be the first one making that suggestion. Dale Bumpers kept making the point that what Florida law calls for in close elections is a manual recount, no different than in Texas. And that several Republican counties have already been manually recounted, with advantage/ Bush. Now, exactly how shall we define ARBITRARY?

Another thought. After this embroglio, we all probably agree that huge improvements can be made in voting technology. Scanning is better than punch ballots. What I'm thinking is if we extrapolate to the near-future when elections could be computerized....don't we want to make sure that it would be the human hand/eye/mind (esp. when there's several from each party) making that FINAL judgment call?

Cindy, I don't get the vampire analogy... I'm thinking MATRIX if we let the machines decide. Much spookier scenario. (and maybe...just a little less pomade, Al?

Aloha All, and good night. It's been fun.
k

Who won the majority of people's votes in the United States in this presidential election? Al Gore. Who is the clearly and definitely the winner of this election by popular vote? Al Gore. Who is ahead by 9 votes in the electorial college votes? Al Gore. While Georgie is out there with his puffed up chest and swollen head announcing over and over "I am King" his dumbo ditto head followers who may well be as drunk as he often is don't even notice the FACTS which is that their BOY lost the presidential race...LESS people voted for him and he is behind in the archaric electorial college too. Georgie boy...the man who would be King. Ha ha.

It's interesting to me that the discussion here is dominated by Republicans, all full of self-righteous piety as if the only "politicans" in the country were Democrats and as if the Democrats had invented "dirty tricks" (which, in historical fact, the Republicans did).

The truth is that "dirty" voting, incompetently run elections, and fat-headedness are pervasive everywhere and are not the sole property of Democrats. You could never claim with a shred of credibility that if the margins had been reversed, the roles would not have been exactly the same -- the Repubs. would have been demanding recounts and the Dems. would have been trying to block them. Saying "he'll do anything to get elected" is applicable to any Presidential candidate at this point.

Do any of you honestly think if the results somehow tip the balance toward Gore (which they won't unless the absentee votes give us a big surprise) that the Republicans won't haul the whole issue, howling, into court?

'I trust the American people'.

I guess that only applies when the outcome is in his favor.

Message for ARegular: Leone had hoped that retirement from Fodor's would stick, but the "caped kitty" must once more into the breach for to issue a final sally. Your response to Olive (that's Miss Oil to you, bubba) was as rude as it was short-sighted. Never travel to the Tampa area because Miss Oil will make sure the only place you can reserve is a Motel 6 south of Central Avenue in St. Pete. Perhaps a new monicker for you might fit your attitude: Irregular. Ciao, and away.

"Caped Kitty, you're strong to the finish, 'cause you eats your spinach! Myyy heeerrrro" croons Olive, clasping her hands and batting her eyelashes as Bluto goes reeling into NeverNeverland, South of Central Ave.

No problema, OO. (Spinaci? Oops, maybe not totally!). So, Fodorites, be sure and tune in next week, same time, same place, when the furry crusader pounces on the Sunshine State and certifies the winner. Ciao.

HHH - very well stated. Thanks

my great-aunt lives in Palm Springs and was not present during the election. She mailed her absentee ballot in to her cat.

Olive Oil and Leone-Isn't it time for your daily shuffleboard game? You two are definetely in the running for old farts of the year.

And to the rest of you-get back to work and quit posting your inane tripe!

Tired Of It All - That was enlightening. Molte grazie, signore. I know it entails risk, but reading and thinking might give you something to say, other than "is there anything good on TV tonight" or "who do you like, FSU or FU." So, I'd suggest ... oops, watch out for that puck ... !!!

Leone kitty my Fearless Feline, Silly, it's a disc, not a puck. You'll be needing lessons for sure before you move here if you expect to hang onto your O.F. certification! gt; But really, ARegular, the sport of choice, right behind the Early Bird Special that is, is boccie, not shuffleboard. Shuffleboard is far too strenuous for O.F. backs. Sheesh...get with it.

Al Gore has made George W. Bush an offer today the Texan should grab with both hands: a peace meeting between the two candidates and a hand count of the entire Florida vote. Given his now continuous court filings to prevent full ballot counts, coupled with the partisan behavior of Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris, Bush is looking more and more like a man afraid of an honest vote count. Should his minuscule advantage hold owing to the forced exclusion of any number of recount totals, Bush’s best hope would a presidency tarnished beyond repair before he even takes the oath of office. For beginning last weekend, Bush campaign has appeared ready to sacrifice every pretense of principle to try to make off with the main prize.

Bush Notions of Entitlement are Outrageous!
The American people have been afforded an instructive glimpse of the operation that will be installed if George W. Bush does ultimately prevail. The Texas Dauphin himself has remained largely absent from view, yet the offensive mounted on his behalf, in an unseemly effort to pretend that his ascension is inevitable, proves again what has seemed plain from the beginning of his campaign. In the ways that matter, this is indeed his father’s regime. And that regime, in the tradition of the aristocracy it often seemed to mimic, has always had two faces: the genteel countenance of the diplomat and the grim mug of the bully.

Dear Joy: I get so tired of the piety some Republicans show. Do you think Democrats don't go to church, don't have values & ethics? I've been told that Democrats couldn't be Christian. Truth is we are all religions, all colors, both sexes, rich & poor, We look like America. If Jesus were here, he would overthrow your selling carts in the temple.

Dear Texan, shhhhhhh. - quiet. Don't spoil our image.

I feel about the Republican Party the way Groucho Marx felt about his country club. He said, "I wouldn't join any country club that would have me as a member."