Maureen, I think we're all quick to think that problems may stem from the way a particular generation was raised. But, as I mentioned in my earlier post, my husband and both my brothers wound up transferring schools. This was more than thirty years ago. Thank goodness all of them were allowed to "fix it" as all were much happier with their second choices. One brother has been teaching high school since he graduated from college, the other is a college professor. My husband is metro editor of a major metropolitan daily newspaper. So I don't think that changing schools was detrimental to their maturity. Who knows, being forced to stay at a school where they were unhappy might have been.

I'm sorry if this comes across as contentious. That's not my intent. I'm just trying to make the point that changing schools is really not that big of a deal. Nor is it anything new.

After a generation of hyper-involved parenting philosophy, now we're getting a new generation of hands-off philosophy, in both cases as if parents were (this never seems to change) the Evil Enemy.

At no time is figuring out the right balance harder than in the college years, esp. freshman year. Many colleges (and people) seem to think that the day a kid graduates from high school, they suddenly become fully functional independent adults overnight. Other colleges (and people) accept and even expect a fair amount of parental involvement, especially when parents are being separated not only from their darling child but from upwards of $30K or more a year! Common sense suggests something in between.

The kid who gets through freshman year without some crisis is the exception, but the definition of the "fix" is highly variable -- depending on kid, college, problem.

But the goal of the process is still (and always has been) not tying their shoes for them but showing them how and then reminding them how if they need a little help with the first few efforts. In freshman year, that probably translates to "ok, you seem to have a problem -- how are you going to fix it?"

Doesn't mean a parent can't provide certain logistical assists (like a place to stay between terms), and doesn't mean a parent can't answer the question "what do you think I should do" with answers like "seems like you have 4 options -- right? -- which of those would work best, do you think? If you need our help, let us know."

But never doubt that it's very hard to figure out exactly what to do about a child who seems miserable, just at the time you are missing them a lot but still know they need to get on their own "inboard systems" to plan and live a life that will work for them. It's rare that the process is as clean as jumping off a diving board and starting to swim.

Talk about irony. And it is true that it is complicated and there is no ONE answer, nor is it always a parent or maladjusted teen problem- now listen to this.

NOW, 9 years after the fact of that freshman year unhappiness and the room mate from Hell story I told early in this thread- guess what I find out just last night.

The murder in IL that has been the top news story for a week here (the girl murdered was missing from ISU and found dead in Mississippi, a state she had never traveled to)has had a development. The suspect being taken from Atlanta- guess who? Yep, my son's roomie from hell.

He petitioned three times in 6 weeks to get this room mate moved for several inappropriate actions, but they couldn't move the room mate because he wasn't allowed near girls' facilities and for other politically correct reasons. My son moved, lost his dorm job because of it as well. Yet this person was able to float in public AND private colleges for all these 9 years.
He still was doing that to this day.

Listen to them if they are unhappy, because these places are not as safe as most tend to think they are. Nor do even the most private schools separate mentally ill or addicted people as they once did- because they are not allowed to discriminate by law.

The law is not on the side of the victim in most cases, IMHO when it comes to college campus crime.

JJ5 it is unbelievable that this suspect was your son's roommate! Was this at ISU or one of the other universities the suspect traveled between? You must feel ill.

JJ5 That is horrible! Holy Moly! Your son must feel vindicated, and maybe a little angry that he was an early victim of this guy's pathology, in a way.

This is truly one of the more interesting threads I have seen on this board. We all have different experiences but many of us have made similar observations. I think it is hard, as parents, to know when it is best to make our children stick with their commitments and when we need to give them permission to change course and regroup. Being a parent has to be the most challenging and humbling experience I have ever had.

JJ5-Oh my gosh! That is horrible that your son had this person for a roommate. I hadn't heard much about the ISU girl's disapearance so did a google search. What a sad and disturbing story. They also had some information about the suspect and it seems he has had many run-ins with the law. It is hard to believe a college would protect someone like that. I am sure hearing about all of this brings back some unpleasant memories for your son. My thoughts and prayers are with that poor girl's family.

"Being a parent has to be the most challenging and humbling experience I have ever had."

Amen to that! I remember years ago hearing someone say in regard to parenting, "It's not rocket science". No, it's a hell of a lot harder! And, I'm guessing, more rewarding.

The people who are quickest to give parenting advice -- particularly those with a quick, simple answer -- are usually the ones without kids. And whoever said that it's an illusion that kids somehow suddenly grow up in the summer between high school and college is right!

Keep us updated, Heavens -- I'm pretty sure things will work out for her on this issue, even with all the uncertainty.

I will preface this by saying that I don't have children, but I think I may be closer in college age than some which may help. I went to a large party school in Florida and graduated with a b.s. in 2001, and although I enjoyed the best of what partying had to offer, I was also in the Honors Program. I don't know if UCSB has the Honors Program option, which many state schools have to replicate a smaller school environment. The criteria for admission is usually high SAT/ACT scores and high GPA. At my school, I was able to register via the honors program before upperclassment. Also, there were honors only classes that had less than 30 students and were taught by the best professors.

When I initially went to school, I wasn't too impressed with my roommate but I made friends through joining a sorority and making friends that were similarly situated. My main point is that, even though UCSB is a party school, it could still be the right school for your daughter only if she is the type of person who is capable of working hard and playing hard. The big school environment was great for me b/c I like activities and there was always something to do. However, because I joined a sorority and was in the Honors Program I believe that I was able to adapt into the environment.

Several other posters have mentioned the relatively new Tom Wolfe book, "I Am Charlotte Simmons" which I've also read. This may not be what some want to hear, but my school was very similar to the school in the book and I suspect many other schools are like that too. Being exposed to dissimilar people is not always a bad thing. Even if those people do have different priorities than your daughter, that type of environment may be good for her in the long run if she can balance the social life with the school issues.

In an aside, my good friends from my big party school (which also partook in some of the partying!) are all upstanding cpas, financial advisors, and lawyers. I think you need to just let your daughter give it more time. The kids I knew freshman year that went home so quickly after one semester inevitably went back to their home, commuted to a smaller university, and never really ended up with a college experience. This caused many of these people to never leave their comfort zone or their hometown, which is not a good thing in my opinion.

You know, except for this board I didn't tell anyone but my best friend and partner. And watching the news last night was like a splash of cold water in my face. I was so happy about the Sox signings etc. going on and then this comes on again with his face staring out.

And this son had just gone through his parents' horrendous divorce after 21 years of marriage, was the only sibling of school age at all- and was spoiled by everybody because he was the baby of the family (was not as used to the bumps of life as his siblings were). Thank God he had so much common sense, because he was very upset and troubled himself at the time and was subsequently for about 2 years after that period. No wonder he was coming home every other week. There is more and specific things this room mate did that are not against the law that I don't want to even relate, but that are very scarey.

And believe me, I don't scare easy.

The most chilling part last night was that they had a trio of his present apartment complex (neighbors) in the buildings at ISU. And one of these sounded IDENTICAL to my son- even used the same words. "This guy was really inappropriate, and it made you so nervous to be around him. You couldn't tell if he was reacting to you or something else" "He was scarey, either talked too much or not at all." "He keeps telling you his name and that he is going to be Doctor of Psychology but he can't look at you or talk sometimes".
On and on, they had 3 people talking for about 3 or 4 minutes.

And my son had him as a room mate at Southern Il. University in Carbondale. This (ISU at Normal, IL) was his 3rd or 4th school over a 9 year period. He was almost ALWAYS a student for all 9 years. He had one statuatory rape charge against him at Southern and the girl was 16, and he couldn't be transfered to any other dorms because of it. Now his rap sheet is much, much longer.

Because I work at a school and see such diverse and multi-national and multi-cultural populations, I do understand this; just because someone is "different" doesn't mean he is bad or harmful etc. but it sure doesn't mean that he is not "sick" either. We have had one Nigerian student who was sick AND harmful- and in this time and political environment it has became almost impossible to segregate him.

Yes parenting is a hard hard job. And some of the hardest parts come when you think everything is just "fine" too.

Heavens is hearing her girl and everything will come out in the wash in the end and the daughter will have to stretch to grow; she'll be a better full grown person. But the ones where they never look back home, well- I've seen some of those that are not "ok" although they seem to be just hunky-dory.

It certainly isn't by a yardstick of years, that's for sure.

Thanks for the good wishes and thoughts. I think we will be hearing about Maurice for quite awhile.

mah1980, UCSB may have a reputation as a party school, but just to be admitted to any University of California school requires high SAT scores and a high GPA. We hear stories regularly about applicants who have 4.0 GPAs who are not admitted.

one way to help our kids mature is to start trusting their judgements early on. If we override all their opinions and judgements when they're adolescents/early teens just because we are the adult, the one in charge, then it will be hard for us to trust their judgement as they get older, and for them to trust their own judgements.
Not saying they will make mistakes, of course they will, but we as parents need to allow them to make some mistakes. One reason that the late 20's are now called the late teens is that the current generation of parents has to have a hand in everything they do.

Barbara,

I realize that California public universities are competitive; my mother went to one. However, even competitive public universities, e.g., UVA, have honors programs which foster more of a small college atmosphere that the OP's daughter may prefer. Although I do not live in Florida, in order to be admitted to either large UF or FSU one must have a very high gpa and standardized test scores. A higher threshold exists for the honors program which I was a part of in college.

I agree with Frankie. Being a freshman in college is not easy. But the OP's daughter wondering if she fits in should not, in my opinion, be something to cause her great concern. Roommate reassignments are easy to get. There should be a dorm counselor who can attempt to get the daughter a different roommate or perhaps into a dorm which is more quiet.

What mah1980 says at the very end of her post, is something that I need to say something about. I really don't want to but I need to.

There is a very LARGE prejudice by parents and society against changing schools, to a smaller school, with lack of "college experience environment" etc. especially.

The people that never get to leave home for college because of one circumstance or another- or just because they know what they want to do with their lives without school; it does NOT follow that they are diminished.

There are people whose comfort zone is the world who have attended small hometown colleges or none at all. And there are people who went to the most urbane cross-country campuses that won't begin to spread intellectually or beyond their own fraternity or social club/level and seldom wander outside that circle devloped in college again.

I never hold changing schools against anyone but give them credit for having the guts to confront that prejudice. And I really also respect the lucky ones who "know" right away that they blossom in a smaller environment and then will know how to conquer a larger stage later- or know that they want to grow where they were planted.

JJ5,

I agree that some people have different comfort levels, etc., my point is that some of the people who gave up on living away from home without trying it out for a while often seemed to miss out in the long run. Living away from home is not for everyone. But, the people that I know around my age (26) who never left the nest or never went away to school are not flourishing to say the least. That is not to say that this is the case in every situation, but I can only speak from my personal experience. Financial situation, family decisions, etc., can factor into one deciding to live at home for college. But I think the danger lies in the fact that many people my age don't leave home for college and often get far too comfortable living at home and that may be to their detriment in terms of success and autonomy.

JJ5, I completely agree with you.

mah1980, it may be easier to judge this once you've been out of school for a bit longer. I think it also depends on where people live. Everyone is different and that's a good thing. It's not good to decry someone else's decision because it's not what you would do, or what you think is best for them.

UCSB does have an honors program in their College of Letters and Science. Incoming freshmen who satisfy the criteria are automatically invited to join.

http://www.honors.ltsc.ucsb.edu/elgblty.php

For anyone who is interested, here is a link for some "quick facts" about UCSB

http://www.admissions.ucsb.edu/QuickFacts.asp

Heavens, according to the SB web site, they do offer teaching credentials.

Barbara,

I think it's probably easier for me to give advice considering I am a relatively recent graduate of college and therefore am more "in touch" with his daughter's generation. Far from decrying other's choices, I'm giving the OP my experience and my perspective. Like I said, different strokes are for different folks. But, in my experience many people that I went to college with that left freshman year after their first experience with any discomfort were not necessarily better off. This is not knocking anyone that lived at home/close to home to go to college. One can make the choice to move home/live at home without falling into the trap that I talk about. I'm merely suggesting that this choice has led to college graduates having prolonged stays at home instead of moving out and getting some independence.

A quick postscript: there's a growing prejudice against small schools -- for which I blame the way USN&WR has arranged their rankings -- as if a small school weren't a "real" college. My own belief is that for many kids, esp. bright ones, the small school is preferable to the big ones because everyone gets engaged and drawn into the learning, has good access to professors and facilities, and can cross the borders of the cliques to have friends in a lot of different areas. In the large schools, you can get (paradoxically) isolated pretty quickly in one group and may never get to know a professor or have easy access to resources (without competing with grad students, etc.).

I'm in favor of getting away from home, but that can happen 100-200 miles away, doesn't need to be 1000-3000 miles. And there are always jr. yrs. abroad and summer internships all over the place.

I agree Cassandra that USN&WR has had too much of an influence on colleges. I think many bright kids are benefited from larger schools b/c it forces them to get out of their bubbles and become more outgoing. A larger school helps one develop confidence b/c you are constantly meeting new people. That has prepared me well to work in the professional world where meeting new people and making a good impression is of vital importance. Yes, one can get into a clique and never meet new people. But a larger school offers so many clubs/groups that allows a student to meet different people.

I think some students respond better to smaller schools. My sister is 2 years older than me and transferred into my big school from her small liberal arts college. She hated my school while I enjoyed it. However, she is a different person than I am; I was in a sorority and more preppy than she was while she was more into seeing live music and creative writing. The bottom line is that while our advice to the OP may be helpful, the only person that can really make the decision about transferring schools is the OP's daughter, with the counseling of her parents.

Cassandra, I think that, if there is a prejudice against small schools, it may be that they tend to be private and therefore more expensive. Of course, not all private schools are small, but they are all very expensive. Small schools do, by and large, offer a more nurturing environment though.

I agree about distance. That is why UCSB is so popular with Southern California students. It's far enough away from home to be "away from home", but close enough to drive home in a few hours.