nytraveler

The overview:

Anyone employed by a sizable company gets health insurance as part of their benefits (but typically has to pay for part of the plan costs - but since it's a group plan the cost is much lower). You pay different prices based on number of family members and adult children can be covered up to the age of, I think, 25 if they are still in school. It is assumed they will get their own insurance when they get a job. (Typically these policies have a lifetime cap of $1 million per person - but if someone needs a heart or lung transplant that alone will blow it.)

People below the poverty level long-term typically have basic healthcare paid for by Medicaid

Seniors have the Medicare plan - for which they must contribute a part of the social security payments they receive, which covers hospital care plus MD care (with limited co-pays_ and drugs (copays depend on the drug plan the seniors decide to purchase). If you buy a supplemental plan - my mom has one from the AARP (Amer Assn Retired People) she ends up paying only a one-time annual dedutible of $300 plus drug costs - from $5 per month for a generic to $50 per month for a new, expensive drug.

The problem is the working poor and their families. These are people who have jobs with small employers that don;t offer insurance or a couple of part-time jobs. Some states (NY for one but I'm sure some others too) offer very low cost insurance for the children of these families - but once you hit 18 you have to pay for yourself or do without basic care. (You will always be cared for in an ER in a true emergency - but they will then collect the money). This is what our government is now trying to address - with many conservatives taking the view that people should buy their own insurance - when they simply don;t have the money after paying rent, utilities and food.

As for the mom needing a c-section - her insurance, will of course pay for it. If she falls into the category of no insurance and not poor enough for Medicaid - naturally she will receive all the care she needs and will then be billed for it.

I know this may sound harsh - but it's a differnt philosophy for both education and healthcare. And you have to realize that Americans pay VERY low taxes compared to europeans - so things that you get for free as a result of taxes you pay we have to pay for ourselves (but pay much less to the government for social services - although they collect a huge amount for "defense"). I believe that in the same income brackets you may pay twice what we do in income tax. Also you have a high VAT tax on everything. Many states in the US don;t have any VAT tax at all - and the ones that do have are much lower than in europe. So families in the US with the same salary usually have more disposable income. Also - from what I have seen salaries in the US are often higher than in the UK (although this varies tremendously by region). For instance in my office an admin assistant will typically start (HS grad or some college) at $35,000 per year - although there are parts of the country where a teacher won't earn more than that (but with much lower cost of living).

Basically we are operating on a capitalist market economy - and the UK is operating on a semi-socialist system of providing safety nets for all. (This is even true in terms of unemployment. In the US you are not unemployed until you have been laid off of a job that you held for a certain amount of time. If you have never had a job - you are not unemployed and you are not eligible for any benefits.

And yes, it's difficult now (but wasn't until the last couple of years of depression) for some grads to get jobs. When I graduated - in the last age - I and my suitemates/friends all got a starter job within a couple of weeks of starting to look. Now grads - esp those from not great schools or with unusual majors - may go months before finding something better than standing behind the counter at Mickey D's. (But top people from name schools still have people lining up to recruit them.)

katiethwaites1

Thank you for that wesbite, I'll have a proper look at it when I'm on my laptop. Yeah from this forum I've become more aware of how different they are, but then again I'm not looking for somewhere exactly like the UK, I think the only thing I actually like about the UK is the NHS! What would happen if a person had no insurance though, and got billed for the medical care but literally had no money to pay for it?
Okay I think I understand your insurance plans now. Wow I never knew a heart/lung transplant was so expensive! That's insane!
Is social security like a pension? If senoirs had medicaid and that's basic, would they pay for them to have a transplant if it was necessary?
Yeah I know we pay a hell of a lot more in taxes, but I guess the benefit to this is that the people who don't earn much are still entitled to the same care as those who have a lot of money.
Yeah if we turn 18 (and aren't in education and don't have a job) you can get up to £70 a week in benefit, and I think its more the older you are. The benefit system is definitely a major problem in this country. Its too easy to minipulate, and often people just don't bother looking for jobs, and get nearly £20000 a year in benefits as well as housing. Then there's people I've gone to school with who have deliberatly gotten pregnant just to get free housing! Its draining the country and is definitely one of the reasons the UK is going down hill, its causing a work shy/lazy generation.
I've always wonder what a 'major' is and how us degree's are structured? Are community colleges/universities free or do they still cost, as I've often heard it talked about when I watch american tv programs.

Just a random question, when watching an american program I saw a girl talking about how they're taught about abstinence and this was all she was taught. Is this true about american sex ed?

nytraveler

Education is free in the US only until you finish high school - usually at age 17 (this includes kindergarden and grades 1 through 12). After that nothing is free.

And there is no free housing - no matter who you are. Public housing is extremely limited, you must qualify by low income (in NYC a couple is eligible for a 1-bedroom is they earn less than $24,500 - poverty level - but the wait is often years and the places are NOT pleasnat. Many states/cities have no public housing at all.

A young woman with an infant and no resources is entitled to a very small cash benefits, food stamps (can be used at markets, but only to buy food) and free formula or milk. But - she the home must be for her and child only - no father or husband is allowed (or he has to support them). In most places an able-bodied man or woman without infant - and under the age of 65 - is entitled to no or extremely limited benefits and they must demonsttrate that they are looking for work.

In terms of university - freshman usually enter with a potential major in mind but may explore for the first year to see what they like and what they can pull off. (One of my suitemates wanted to be a bio major but after two weeks she was invited to switch to another class, since her prep was insufficient.) Some schools (pharmacy or nursing for instance) have a separate school within the university. Pharmacy is a 7 year degree (they get a Doctorate of Pharmacy) and BS in nursing is a 4 year degree. Typically a university has courses in many areas (the one I went to had liberal arts, fine arts, science, engineering, medicine (a graduate school), nursing and pharmacy). Once the student picks a major they have to take a certain number of credits in that and related areas - as well as the basics everyone has to take - often 2 semester eng lit, 2 maths, 2 science, 2 fine arts, 2 lib arts and 4 semester proficiency in one foreign language. I was a history major -- so most of my courses were history, political science and anthropology. Many schools also have business courses - which I htink is mistake on the undergraduate level - IMHO university is not trade school and o ne should get a broad base and then specialize (with an MBA). More and more a BA or BS is insufficient for even a starter job in a high powered field but a grduate degree is expected.

Public education (though grade 12) in the US is controlled locally. Each district has different standards and offerings (even with a state syllabus). Yes, sadly there are some places where only abstinence is taught - and, as one would expect, those are usually the areas with the highest rate of teen births. (The thinking behind this is religious, usually the areas have very strong fundamentalist religious populations who believe that if teens are not taught about sex they won;t discover it.) In many other places the usual necessary courses, including risk of STDs, are taught in middle school (kids 11 to 13 or so) and free condoms are provided to high school students. But each school district (neighborhood of several thousand families on up control all of these things through locally elected school boards.)

katiethwaites1

Yeah education is free in the uk until you reach 18 (unless you choose to go to private school) currently it's compulsory to go to school until year 11 (aged 16). Now its being put in that after leaving school, we have to either go onto further education (college for 2 years to gain A levels) or do vocational course for 2 years or do an apprentice. This is all free, the only education we pay for is university which is the same as america.
Your benefit system definitely seems better and stricter which is something that the uk government really needs to have.
The food stamps are a really good idea and is definitely something that the uk should have, as often the people on benefits (generally younger) spend it on smoking and drinking. Food stamps would be a good idea.

I'm really confused by what a major is- is this what they'll gain their degree in? We don't have that with uk degree's, we don't have the math and english etc unless its necessary for the degree. You only get taught the stuff needed for the degree.

Each state seems almost like its own country. In the uk we have the national curriculum which is used in every single school (other than private). I honestly cannot believe that in the 21st century some teens aren't being taught about safe sex! Do whoever is creating the states curriculum not realise that everyone will know about sex from tv and the internet and friends-even if they aren't taught. When I was in school we had basic sex ed aged 10-11 (learning about periods and anatomy and where babies come from etc). Now they are bringing it in slightly early, and when we get to secondary school (12-16) we are taught all about safe sex and relationships each year. We're taught about all different types of birth control, taught how to use condoms, told about the morning after pill, effects of sexual relationships, emotions involved, that we have a right to say no etc. It thorough to be honest. No wonder there seems to be so many series of 16 and pregnant if they aren't even taught about birth control! Is birth control free in the US for teens?
In the uk birth control is free (anything from the pill to the implant) for teens if they go to their doctor and its kept confidential from their parents etc. This is controversial because they can be underage (13+) but at the end of the day if they were denied it I doubt it would stop them!
It definitely seems that the US is a more religious place than here- I only know a handle of people who are, and only a few of them regularly attend church.

MareW

Community colleges are two year colleges that offer an Associate's degree. They aren't free, but the tuition is much less than at a four year college. Many students after graduating from community college go on to a four year college. They ((ideally) enter as Juniors (third year students).

Most high school students in the U.S. these days are 18, or even 19, when they graduate. Seventeen is not as common as it used to be as there's a trend for parents to start their kids a little later.

katiethwaites1

So why do people go to community colleges if they have to go to another college after anyway?
Do parents chose what age they send their kids to school?
Also is it legal for students to just drop out of high school? On American programs that I've watched it seems a lot of people on it dropped out?

suewoo

1. Because it's cheaper.
2. Do you mean when they start school? Or go to college?
3. Yes.

tomfuller

Trying to answer your questions - Tuition is much cheaper in the Community college. Some - like me get the Associate Degree and go to work in their chosen profession.
I started my career while I was still 19 years old.
I sent my kids to kindergarten as soon as I could since they did well in pre-school.
I was encouraged to keep my son with an August birthday home for another year. I refused. In many states students can't drop out until their 18th birthday unless they are expelled for bad behavior.

sassy_cat

>

because it's cheaper to start a degree course in community college and then go onto a 4 yr college (for 2 years) to complete a degree

>

there's some choice but varies from state to state. Our local schools now have a rule that children can't start kindergarten until they are 5 years old


>

Yes

Oh and students drop out of college too.. so although a higher % of students go on to college compared with the UK the drop out rate is also high. Some drop out for financial reasons

nytraveler

All of these rules are different from state to state and sometimes district to district. I believe ages for starting school have been moved (by months, not by year). Pre-school is optional although most kids go since most women work. Kindergarden is also optional but almost all kids go. From first grade on education is mandatory - although if parents prefer they can send children to parochial (religious) or private schools that they pay for or have the option of home schooling if they can demonstrate they are capable of doing so (often very conservative people from fundamental religious groups).

Children must stay in school until they are a certain age (often 16) - but again this varies by state. How many drop out or go on to college varies tremendously based on state, family values (how vital is education?) and just family expectations. I went to school in a middle/upper middle class area in suburbs of NYC and of my graduating class 94% went on to 4 year university. In that district parents now spend more than $17,000 per child for the public (free to all) schools. In a district less than 10 miles away with primarily low income families and many people receiving social benefits they spend only about $9,000 per year per student, many drop out of school and few go on to 4 year university - although a higher umber go to local community colleges.

This is in NY, where each school district has separate school boards in control and individual budgets. In the former district the federal government supplies perhaps 20% of the funds, the state another 25% and the rest from taxes on local families. In the latter most of the funds come from the federal and state government since local residents can't afford to pay much in local school taxes - so the total spend is much lower.

In some states the funds come primarily from federal and state governments so spending may be more even - although the issues that come with poverty often mean that many fewer students are successful.

Marginal

nytraveler is incorrect in some areas:

1. People below the poverty level long-term do not typically have Medicaid. They have to apply for and be approved for Medicaid. It reimburses hospitals and physicians very poorly, and many physicians will not take Medicaid patients. It is also quite political, as each state government has a contribution to be made toward paying for indigent care through Medicaid, and it is not the same in each state.

Many people do not have Medicaid, typically undocumented Hispanics, and in some areas of the country, this is a huge population that cannot pay for healthcare services. Hospitals just don't get paid for providing for their care. Their problem becomes trying to find non-hospital care for non-life threatening problems and preventive care.

Planned Parenthood is one organization that actively provides screening and preventive healthcare.

nytraveler

Sorry - should have made it clear that all social services and benefits are for citizens only. Illegal aliens - and we have millions do not qualify.

As for Medicaid - although the federal government contributes, a significant part of the funds come from each state - which has different standards and different benefits. Some states try to give it to those that qualify and some states do everything possible to prevent giving it even to those who clearly qualify.

In some places it is beleived that peole are poor simpy because they choose to - and giving them benefits is only encouraging them not to support themselves. (Obviusly true in some cases, but IMHO most on Medicaid are indigent seniors, children under the age of 18 and mothers with infants/small children). Some states want these people either to support themselves (but don;t provide free child care) or should just go away.

Another problem we are dealing with - and people have very different attitudes.

katiethwaites1

I don't know why anyone would ever choose to be poor-surely that just defies logic? I think benefits are a very difficult thing to get right. If your too free in giving them out (like the uk) then people just become lazy and don't bother knowing they have a back up.
But I think that the majority of genuine people who need benefits don't want to be in that situation e.g young mothers with infants. If they have to go out to work and pay for child care as well as all they're rent and bills they're probably making a loss.

Why do parents pay $17000 if the education is free?
You said that benefits are only given to citizens and not illegal aliens-does this mean that if a foreign person moves to the us from another country (but not illegally) that they'd get benefits if needed?
Because our benefit system is so easy to minipulate, we have a lot of people coming to the uk and getting benefits without ever working a single day in the uk! I saw an article in the paper the other day about how a afghan family of 10 had been placed in a £2 million house and got £170000 a year in benefits, yet one of our troops who fought for our country and can no longer fight due to injury has been told by thr council that they'll need to move into a homeless hostel with his wife and two young children, its disgraceful! I think the uk definitely needs to be more like the us by making the system harder- but then again still make it given to those in genuine need.

I don't understand why they can drop out if they reach 18. Surely that's a massive waste of 13 years education?