mspguy

Please comment on the following itinerary. I have 3 weeks (22 nights) in Europe in May. I'm traveling alone and therefore I make my way through places pretty quick. Last trip I did was in the UK, where the only places I spent 3 nights were London and Edinburgh. The rest were 1-2 night stops (York, Bath, Ft. William-Highlands) and I found that itinerary to be just my speed. So, with that in mind, let me know your opinions on this trip:

Day 1 - Arrive Frankfurt in the morning, get rental car & head towards Rothenburg...

Night 01 – Rothenburg
Night 02 – Somewhere near Garmisch/Fussen/Schwangau (for Ludwig’s digs)
Night 03 – Night train from Garm-Part. to Venice (drop car in Garm-Part.)
Night 04 – Venice
Night 05 – Venice
Night 06 – Night train Venice to Munich
Night 07 – Munich
Night 08 – Munich, then Salzburg next morning
Night 09 – Salzburg, then to train to Vienna next morning
Night 10 – Vienna
Night 11 – Vienna
Night 12 – Night train to Prague
Night 13 – Prague
Night 14 – Prague
Night 15 – Prague
Night 16 – Night train to Frankfurt, then a.m. train to St. Goar area
Night 17 – Koln or other, then train to Amsterdam next day
Night 18 – Amsterdam
Night 19 – Amsterdam
Night 20 – Amsterdam, then fly to London next morning
Night 21 – London
Night 22 – London, then fly home next morning

I'm debating on two things: One, omitting the St.Goar/Koln -or- London to allow more padding elsewhere. However, if a friend joins me in AMS, I promised we'd go to London for a couple days, too. He's never been overseas.

Comments? Questions? Concerns?
Thanks!!

rex

Are you sure that there is a night train to Prague? It's only about 4-4.5 hours, I think.

I think that Ben Haines knows this route, and perhaps there is the possibility of using his "overshoot" strategy.

Best wishes,

Rex
[email protected]

mspguy

Looks like there is a night train (that takes about 10hrs, due to stops) - but I just looked again and there are other choices averaging anywhere from 4.5 to 5.5 hours. So, since I have a few options I may decide to not do another night train. I already have a few in there, and just realized that with all my train travel at night I'm at risk of missing some daytime scenary.

mspguy

bump for more input, please!

Brutforce

Of your 3 weeks you will spend 1 week on a train. Have you ever done the night train before ? They are loud & noisy w/frequent stops & of course you'll be sharing a compartment w/3-5 others. Keep in mind last time you were in only the UK. This is a totally different thing you are trying to do here. I would suggest limiting your trip to Germany/Austria & Prague. Do the Mosel & Rhine valleys. Visit Melk & Linz (between Vienna & Salzburg). Visit Cesky Krumlov (between Prague & Vienna). Forget about Koln & Amsterdam until next time. Starting in Frankfurt I would go to Koblenz & head right down the Mosel & plan from there.

Sue_xx_yy

I take your point about how many nights you want to spend at each stop, but you are covering a much bigger geographical area than Britain (which as you know is only called the UK if one includes Northern Ireland.)

Most car rental companies don't allow 1 way rentals for rentals of less than 3 days. Ergo, you would be better off driving from Frankfurt to Munich via Rothenburg, the castles, and Salzburg, and drop the car in Munich. Also Munich is a better train departure point than Garmisch, service is better and more direct.

I would think hard about including Venice this trip, but if you must, it's a 6 or 7 hour trip; you could then connect to Vienna on the night train from Venice. Otherwise proceed direct to Vienna from Munich, and use the time freed up to ease your path through Koln and the Rhine, which is very tight as scheduled.

I can't speak to your Prague plans having never been there, but I know it's 6 hours from Prague to Frankfurt by train.

Bottom line: remember that things can go awry (disruptions in train service for whatsoever reason, even of short term duration, can be a headache, as can traffic jams.)

mspguy

Hmm.. good points.. Unfortunately, I need to go to Amsterdam where I'm meeting a friend and then we're flying out of London (only flights available for FF miles). As much as I hate to, maybe I'll just have to cut Venice out of the schedule since it's probably the most out of the way. Then maybe do Southern France, Switz, & Italy on the next trip.

I haven't done a night train before. I realize that I have several night train trips planned and that (along with the timeline) one of my main concerns.

If I omit Venice, where would you advise spreading the additional (~4) days? What can you tell me about:

- Cesky Krumlov (by train from Vienna to Prague, but looks a little out of the way)
- Melk & Linz
- Must see places around Koln/Rhine

Sue_xx_yy

Mspguy, are you working with a fairly decent map? Michelin's series987 (Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Benelux) is a picture worth a thousand words.

I like hopping around too, but the trick is to space your stops not too far apart: 2.5 to 3 hours is good, you want to be able to catch up easily if you fall behind for some reason. For example, we did a night each in Rothenburg, Ottobeuren, Hohenschwangau; Hohenschwangau in your case would be in lieu of your night train to Venice.You then can drop the car in Munich as 3 days would have elapsed; do your time in Munich, head to Salzburg, Vienna, etc. Czesky Krumlov I've not seen but it is a nice half way point between Vienna and Prague; that uses up the 2nd of your 4 nights in Venice. Then you'd want a halfway point between Prague and Frankfurt, I dunno, Nurnberg? That's the 3rd night. You aren't visiting the Mosel so if you arrive in St. Goar after Nurnberg, then spend 2 nights in Koln instead of just 1, that will use up your 4th night. Bon voyage.

suze

I'll be of only a little help because I hate a busy itinerary but here's two things:

I loved both Venice and Amsterdam. I'd try to keep both of them in your plan!

I slept OK on night trains (and I'm normally a restless sleeper) but: I wouldn't want to do 2 nights in a row & also I sprung for a private two person 'wagon-lit' rather than a 4-6 person couchette cabin.

Faversham

I just spent the last TWO hours typing a reply to your questions and @#%&* Fodors lost my @#$%& reply!!! I'm really sorry MSPGUY because I thought I offered a great way to make your itin work, but I can't waste any more company time.

In essence, What I proposed is that you move the Venice portion toward the end of your trip. Ryanair flies from Charleroi, Belgium to Venice for about $60 RT. So, after you see Cologne, drive to Charleroi (less than 3 hours) and then do Venice. When you return, drive up to Amsterdam. Keep your car rental all the way through from Frankfurt to Amsterdam. A two week rental is much more economical than three days plus dropoff fees.

And skip the train - it's horrible. If you have trouble sleeping on an airplane, a couchette with it's two foot wide bed is even worse. Each time I've done it, I ended up with a snorer. That combined with the noise and stops and starts makes for an awful night. You're better off having the freedom of a car and staying in gasthofs and inns.

Faversham

shhhhhh!!! I'm at lunch now so maybe I can sneak in a couple other comments:

When you make your trip down towards Fussen/Royal Castles, consider Wes Fowler's suggestion of staying in the tiny town of Hohenfurch. It's less than half an hour from the Royal Castles, Wieskirch, and Oberammergau. Search this website for his hotel recommendation there. We went and it was fantastic. Very reasonably priced and an easy-to-get-to location. Be sure to visit the abbey in Ettal, outside Garmisch.

Driving from Vienna to Prague should be no big deal. It's about 3 1/2 hours. Just be sure your car rental company knows you're going there. Some agencies forbid it do to insurance problems.

You can fly very cheaply from Amsterdam to London Gatwick on Easyjet. At Christmas we did it for less than $60 each roundtrip.

mspguy

Yeah, I'm already planning to fly from ASM to LGW.. Found fares for that weekend on Easyjet for about �47 - which is amazing. I also looked at Ryanair for flights from BRU to VEN and those are decent, too. It will be a little hectic to do that, but I would also avoid wasting 2 nights on trains (from Munich to Venice, then from Venice to Vienna).. It's a good suggestion, but still a little worried about the pace..

Sorry Fodors messed up your original response. It appears they've been having some issues with the message boards over the last couple days. Tip: Before clicking "submit" on your reply, select all your text and copy it to the clipboard. That way if it bombs, you can just jump back & paste it back. I do this all the time now, due to problems on a lot of boards.

BarbaraC

I just spent 2 weeks in Europe and found the Rick Steves guides and itineraries to be super helpful. All is advice is right on!!!

Brutforce

Cesky Krumlov is maybe an hour +/- from Prague. Take the train to Ceske Budovice & take a cab/taxi from there. (Otherwise you are jammed on a commuter train that stops every 10 feet that takes 1/2 an hour to go 10 km). It is worth @ least an overnight stay. Melk & Linz can both be easily stopped @ from the train.

Christina

Cesky Krumlov is a nice little town, but I think it's a lot longer than 1 hr from Prague. It's about 100 miles (170 km) from Prague and I think it can take close to 3 hrs one-way with the transfer and everything. I think the bus may actually be a little quicker from Prague than the train, but I took a private van so am not sure. Even driving directly, I think it took over 2 hrs to get there.

Harold

Two nights in Vienna and three nights in Prague are about right. There is a train that departs from Vienna's Sudbahnhof just before 3:00 pm that arrives in Prague a little after 7:30. The scenery is mostly argicultural.

I see that another person has advised Prague is about 3 1/2 hours from Vienna by car. I would allow a lot more time than 3 1/2 hours by car. I have a friend that has done it in 4 hours, but this guy really hits it. He goes at 150/160 kph where the road and traffic allow which is way above the posted speed limit.

Sue_xx_yy

OOps, my bad. You are right, MSPguy, Cesky Krumlov isn't a good choice as a halfway point between Wien by train, only by car. I just checked bahn.de and there are two EC trains direct to Prague, duration of journey 4.34 hours, leaving at 10:25 and 14:25; obviously these are a better choice than going via Cesky Krumlov, which would add 3 hours to the trip. Sorry for misdirect.