We went on a Moscow, Munich, and Switzerland trip from which we just returned.

One place we went back to in Switzerland was Lucerne (for 2 days). The first time we were in Lucerne was in 2004. It was glorious. The second time was in 2013 in April, cold and grey but still beautiful and the height of the season hadn't started.

This time was the third week of September. Well, the hordes of tour groups was almost overwhelming. Tour group leaders yelling; people with selfie sticks. Difficult to walk around. And this wasn't even the summer! I can't imagine what it must be like in June/July/August.

What a change from our first trip in September 2004. So sad.

WOw; we almost went today but decided to hang around Grindelwald and our home base of Phinstegg. We are loving it here, so I guess we made a good choice.

tuscan - Probably a lot less crowded than Lucerne!

My husband's supervisor who is from China said the "Chinese have now discovered Lucerne". Not that there haven't been loads of other tourists who "discovered" Lucerne years ago, but I guess that with the increase in Chinese tourism, the bus tours/selfie sticks have added to the mayhem.

Really, it was awful. I don't know how anyone enjoys themselves.

Love it when one tourist complains about all the other tourists. I would love it most of you would/should stay home so that I can enjoy the tourist site for myself. I really dislike having other tourists around.

fmpden- I knew someone would bring that up. So thank you for coming through!

I'm just warning people that if they don't like the crazy crowds they shouldn't go. It's the reason I didn't like Venice. It was like Times Square on New Year's Eve. And I live in NYC.

Think that must be a little exaggeration - there couldn't have been a million people there.

but very sad to hear this. Have been 4 time and I lobe Lucerne but haven;t been in last 3 years. We usually go May or early June - will have to figure this out since it is on our list for next spring.

That's why nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded

(RIP Yogi)

Christina - Great juxtaposition of two topics!

Well you can add: Venice; Florence; Rome; Paris; Bellagio; Portofino; Rothenburg and many more to your no-go lists I think if that is your criteria. did you explore all of Lucerne and its lake or just the covered bridges area?

I was there three weeks ago and I disagree, I met friends there we had lunch in the old ton by the river and then walked along the walls and found a delightful little farm that sold refreshments as well. On another day in my holiday I went to Lucerne on my own and there was only one shop that was really crowded with Chinese visitors, otherwise I had a pleasant stroll along the lake and the river. Like many Swiss towns and cities Lucerne was busy but not enough to stop me going again.

Could have been an anomaly - maybe some large tour bus groups descended on the tourist part of Lucerne all at once - but I have not been there in a few years and diane is a reputable poster whose takes I put credence in so I believe it was very crowded for some weird reason and she just happened to be there - maybe a convention too or whatever.

When I visited Lucerne in June 2011, it was vastly more crowded, with Chinese and others, than when I first saw it in 1989. (As I understand it, Switzerland has been aggressively marketing itself to the growing middle class in China.) Fortunately, it was rainy for much of the time I was there, and most people weren't venturing out. Didn't bother me -- that's why I carry a rain jacket. During the times that were sunny and dry, it was crowded enough to limit movement.

tipsygus - Glad you had such a good time.

Pal - I was only there for a very short time, meeting with some friends. And, yes, we only went to the covered bridges part as that's all the time we had and the friends had never been there. So, the rest of Lucerne could have been just fine. Wish we had seen it!

It's like this at many well known destinations in Europe especially the ones with shopping opportunities or with places with "I was there" appeals. However, this has always been the case. Those who have traveled in the 60s lamented the transformation in the 70s, those who traveled in the 80s got annoyed but sudden popularity of destinations when they returned in the 90s, etc. Our travel styles would need to adjust to the changing travel landscape.

I just spent a few days in Venice last week. A traditional recommendation was to stay in Venice. But I suspected the city would be choking with tour groups during the day, so I spent a day in Padova. What a difference! No tourist in sight, good food at normal prices, mid day business closures as it should be in traditional Italy, and at Scovegni, I saw only European visitors.

I also ate at Cantinone Gia' Schiavi in Venice. Despite being right on the busy path between Accademia and Zattere, there were only Italians even though mass of Asian tourists walked by not knowing what it was perhaps because it was not on their must do list provided by their tour operators.

Very true Greg.
If we don't like to travel to places that have become too crowded, then we should stop trzaveling to all touristy sites.
A lot more people than before have access to travel and have enough money to do it.
so be it.
(I was talking to a good friend yesterday who said he jumped from one rock to another one in Stonehenge when he was a kid and would have family picnics on the site..
Now you have to follow a path behind bars...).

We were in Lucerne in June, and there were certainly a lot of tourists from Asia. Not only Chinese, but Japanese, Indian, Pakistani (or Bangladeshi), Koreans, Filipinos, and tourists who might have been Malaysian or Indonesian. Many of them were indeed part of large tour groups, but a lot seemed to be independent travelers.

There were plenty of places in Lucerne that weren't crowded, though. There were no crowds at the Rosengart collection, and when we took a walk around the city wall, we saw very few other people. We also visited a monastic church, whose name I forget, and the monks were chanting the vespers; it was very beautiful and no crowds. The crowds were indeed mostly along the river, as has been suggested above. It didn't have any negative impact on our visit.

The first time I was in Lucerne, about seven years ago, there were lots of tourists, but they were mostly European or American. Maybe that doesn't bother other people of European extraction so much.

I have also noticed a big increase in Asian tourism in the popular cities of Italy. It means that the total number of tourists in these places has greatly increased. I was in Rome with some visiting cousins this past June, and I suggested we visit St. Peter's Basilica after 5 PM, when, in my experience, there is usually little or no security queue. However, when we got there, the queue went all the way around the square.

The same was true at the Colosseum: even though we already had tickets, we had to wait 45 minutes under a broiling hot sun to get in, because the number of people inside was at the limit of what's allowed. I would have torn up my ticket and gone away, but my cousins really wanted to see the inside.

The last time we were in Paris was in April a few years ago, and Paris was also much more crowded than I would have expected at that time of the year, and again there was a large Asian presence. We waited a long time to get in to Ste. Chapelle (where my husband had never been), and when we went to Notre Dame (which we had both visited several times before), we didn't even try to enter.

My cousins who visited me in June had been to Paris before arriving in Italy, and they had taken a photo inside the Louvre. The crowds around the Mona Lisa were insane. There's no point in visiting an art museum under those circumstances. My cousin took a photo over the heads of about 200 tourists, just to prove she'd she'd seen the Mona Lisa? I don't see the point.

I think it's best to go to the less well-known places in Europe if you visit between any time between spring and autumn, and save the cities for the dead of winter. Or if you really want to visit the cities in high season, skip the things that are on all the top 10 lists and search out instead the hidden gems.

My husband's Chinese supervisor said that Switzerland has been doing very heaving advertising and pushing for Chinese tourism.

At the same time, Interlaken, of all places, was not overrun. Of course, we stayed in Unterseen. Nor were other parts of the Berner Oberland, including a boat ride on Lake Brienz, at least at the time we went - 3rd week in September. Lauterbrunnen and Murren were a dream. We even got to see cows come down from the mountain.

BTW - Munich was a bit to much for us too. We were there two days <b>before</b> Oktoberfest (who knew Oktoberfest began in September - not us!). It was insane.

who knew Oktoberfest began in September - not us!

Given the overall tone of your posts, I'm surprised.

I hate Tour Groups, and I hate the ignorant disrespecful way they shove their cameras around with total disregard for their 'victim' and lack of awareness of their immediate environment.

Such a person backed into me the ther day [in Hoi An, Vietnam]. Fortunately, I'd anticipated his move, and I stuck my left knee in his back. Surprised, he looked at me, and said "Pardon monsieur!" Enough said!

We were in Switzerland last September .......Lucerne and the Jungfrau region were more overrun with tourists from Asia than even London or Paris . Going up to the Jungfrau from Wengen there was an entire train booked specifically for some Asian tours . Murren was overrun too ... Going up to the schilthorn ..... Selfie sticks and all . We tried not to let the hoards of people ruin it for us and I guess the local economies benefit because in Lucerne,especially, the Asian tourists were buying lots of stuff in the high end stores .