We would like to travel from Berlin to Dusseldorf to Koln up the Rhine to different cities and end up in the bLack Forest region. What are the most economical ways to travel - train, air, car? We are intimidated by lack of experience and cost to consider car. Is this realistic? What is a good rental agency if car is the best way to travel?

The German train service is superb. Look at the discount cards they have, and see what suits your situation.

http://www.bahn.de/p/view/internatio...l_guests.shtml

For a short visit to the areas you've listed, trains go pretty much everywhere you'd probably want to visit. Even in the Black Forest region, you can get to Titisee, Triberg, Gengenbach, Baden Baden, Freiburg, and other popular destinations rather easily by train.

Basic train tickets on high-speed equipment for your route Berlin - Duesseldorf - Koeln - Freiburg will run a bit over $300. Not bad compared to a car + insurance + gas + parking fees as long as you can go where you want to go by train. You can save some $ by traveling on slower regional trains on a Sat or Sun with a "happy weekend" ticket, but this is less convenient. Berlin to Duesseldorf is a 4-hour trip on fast trains, around $240 for two one way; on a happy weekend ticket, you'll spend 8 hours on the train and have to change trains several times, but you'll pay less than $40 total. $200 in savings is a lot to me, and I'd go with the second option in a heartbeat as long as I had the time, but then, I travel light and don't mind getting off and on trains or packing a picnic lunch and a bottle of wine (to help make it an even happier weekend.)

You might also want to look into the German Rail twinpass - $169 each for 4 days of unlimited rail travel. Very convenient to use.

I've traveled a good deal in Germany by car and by train but I find the car much more stressful. Cars are occasionally convenient for this or that but the public transport infrastructure in Germany is just so dependable and so extensive that the more costly driving option just doesn't make much sense unless you are an auto enthusiast, or you are planning to visit some really inaccessible back-country, or you are physically unable to tote your baggage or negotiate steps. Unless I'm going to some truly remote places, I don't even consider driving anymore. And the German police frown heavily on driving while wine-tasting. Take the train and enjoy yourself.

I have to agree with Russ and Robespierre. I live in Germany and drive most places just because I already have a car here, but if I didn't I'd be taking the train everywhere in a heartbeat. All of those places you mention are so easily reached by train and it's just so much more relaxing. You can bring your own food, wine, etc. on board and just watch the countryside go by. If you wanted to go to some out-of-the-way spots, then a car would be the way to go, but for your itinerary I'd definitely say the train.

I live in Germany and have never even owned a car since I don't need it.

Your itinerary can easily be done by public transport, i.e. train. The long-distance trains run frequently, they are faster than a car on a crowded highway and save you a lot of stress. In the cities you'll find a good to excellent public transport network that takes you everywhere, even in the centres that are closed to individual car traffic, and there is no need to look for parking.

Along the Middle Rhine valley there are local trains along both river banks that stop everywhere.

In the Black Forest, there are several places that can be reached by train, as the others have stated, but trains won't take you everywhere. If you really want to explore the countryside in the Black Forest, you can rent a car for a day or two from, for example, Freiburg or Baden-Baden.

We lived for 6 years in Germany with our own car and it was good to travel by car though I hated the traffic on the autobahn and driving in unfamiliar cities.

Now that we have returned to Germany for some trips we have settled on train travel. The views are much better than the autobahn and you are usually delivered right to the middle of the scenic old town.

Quokka did have a good point about having a one-day car rental for seeing the rural areas of the Black Forest.

Regards, Gary

It depends on where and when you are traveling and what sort of traveler you are.

If you are only going to cities and larger towns and don't care about stopping to see sights along the way, then trains are absolutely the best way to go. Otherwise a car or a combination of train and car might be better.

We've traveled in Europe using all three methods: public transport only; car only; and combination of the two. It just depended on where and when we were traveling and what we wanted to see and do.

Of course, the most economical way would be walking and hitchhiking, but that isn't practical for most people.

Everyone has been so helpful. I appreciate all the responses.

Flying doesn;;tmake any sense to see a bunch of smaller places.

Train travel is doable - but you wold have to map your itinerary carefully to make sure you don;t have to keep backtracing - and to keep on schedule.

I would defiitelty do car - esp with 2 or more people the finances make sense - and it gives you the freedom to roam at will, spend longer or shorter time at each place depending on how interesting you find it - and exploring cute places you see off the road. All of which are much harder from a train.

We did a combination of trains and a rental car for our trip - trains until we headed toward the alps where we wanted a car for the flexibility. It worked out well and I was glad to have the car in the mountains since we were in smaller areas and the car gave us the ability to wander around a bit. I was also glad not to have a car in Munich since we absolutely did not need it, as I suspect would be the case in most large cities. We didn't miss having a car in Nuremberg either - we found taking trains to the smaller towns in that area to be very easy.