Hello,
Family of 4 (parent and older teenagers) traveling to UK in June for 2 weeks. Arriving and departing Scotland (only location available for our ff miles).

Likes: castles, history, outdoors (challenging walks or canoeing), cathedrals

So far, I have 2 nights in Edinburgh and 5 nights in London. Traveling from Edinburgh to London by train. Pick up rental car on way out of London.

Here's the problem: Had planned to see North Wales castles and maybe do some outdoor activity in Snowdonia. Would leave London, stopping at Warwick and then head over via A5 to North Wales for 2-3 nights. Is that a doable drive with the Warwick stop?

York is high on my list. Lakes also sound good, too. But we really only have 5 nights to work with, so if we keep Wales, something does not make it onto this itinerary. Should we keep Wales and skip Lake district?

Could we cut back one night in London allowing more time for other places? Must sees in London: Westminster, British Museum, National Gallery, Tower, one night theatre

Is it possible to change ff tickets to open jaw (realizing there is a penalty fee)?

Thanks for your patience with all the questions.

The train from Edinburgh to London goes through York, so either buy more expensive tickets that allow break of journey or buy cheap ones for each leg. In either case use the GNER website to book & do so about 6-8 weeks before arrival in order to get the lowest prices

open jaw would be better - but it depends on the penalty fee.

But here is a way that works w/o changing your flights.

-2 nights Edinburgh

-train to York 1 night/1.5 days

-train to London 4 nights

-drive to Warwick. The castle alone will take at least 1/2 a day plus the rest of the town/area. In June it will be light until VERY late, so while it would be a looooooong day, you certainly could drive to N Wales after visiting Warwick. Me personally - I'd probably stay near Warwick or NW of there on the way to Wales and get an early start the next morning (it will be light VERY early too). You wouldn't actually lose any usable time in Wales by doing this.

This would give you 3 days for N Wales, about 2 for the Lakes, then another couple of days for Hadrian's Wall, and the Borders before flying out of EDI.

As AlanRow said, you can book the separate legs (London-York-Edinburgh)online through GNER. We did that itinerary for a trip next month and paid 19.75 GBP each. The site isn't terribly user-friendly if you're in the states - we had to enter a UK address (which didn't cause a problem with credit-card verification, oddly).

"Likes: castles, history, outdoors (challenging walks or canoeing), cathedrals

So far, I have 2 nights in Edinburgh and 5 nights in London. Traveling from Edinburgh to London by train. Pick up rental car on way out of London.

Here's the problem: Had planned to see North Wales castles and maybe do some outdoor activity in Snowdonia. Would leave London, stopping at Warwick and then head over via A5 to North Wales for 2-3 nights. Is that a doable drive with the Warwick stop?

York is high on my list. Lakes also sound good, too. But we really only have 5 nights to work with, so if we keep Wales, something does not make it onto this itinerary. Should we keep Wales and skip Lake district?

Could we cut back one night in London allowing more time for other places? Must sees in London: Westminster, British Museum, National Gallery, Tower, one night theatre"

Strictly my opinions:

Re: York - as another poster suggested - break your train journey to London in York for one night. Take the earliest train you can from Edinburgh to give yourself a full day in York.

North Wales - if you like Castles and walking you will LOVE North Wales.
My favorite castles in North Wales are:
Beaumaris, Conwy and Harlech.

I like the lake District but because of the castles I prefer North Wales.

Personally I would take an extra day in Edinburgh (remember you will be jet-lagged when you arrive).

If you have the time you could stop in the Lake District for one or two nights on your way back to Scotland. I like the area around Wastwater - but it is a little more remote. It may be more practical to stop at Grasmere or Windermere (too busy for me).

My advice is to spend no less than 3 (or better yet 4) nights in North Wales.

I would be inclined to skip Warwick and the Lake District and concentrate on enjoying Edinburgh, London and North Wales with a quick stop in York. Even that is a lot for just 2 weeks.

Thanks for the messages thus far. I hate to give up York. Is it possible to take early train from Edinburgh, get off to see York Minster and Shambles (leaving luggage at Station), and then catch late train to London. Or is that a bad idea?

Possible itineraries:
Edinburgh- 2 nights (not so worried about jet lag--we ran all over Venice first day there. It was coming back to State that killed us.)
York (either day stop or over night)
London - 4 or 5 nights depending on York decision
Wales - 3 nights (skipping Warwick - maybe - another hard one to let go)
Lake District - 2 nights
Drive up to Scotland (stopping at Hadrians Wall) spend night at hotel near airport.

That's 5 or 6 different accommodations - bad decision?

Stopping in York for the Minster and the shambles is do-able; it's about a fifteen minute walk to both from the station. I can't remember whether there is a left luggage at the station; maybe someone else knows?

Don't skip York, it's really wonderful. We had 24 hours there, staying overnight, and wished for more. The Minster could take a half day. Be sure to do the downstairs part - it's fascinating to see the old foundations, the Roman walls, etc. The audio guide is quite good (my husband didn't use it and I don't think he got as much out of it, although there are lots of information signs). The Shambles and surrounding areas are fun, if crowded (at least in August). Walking around the wall is very interesting; we only had time for a little section. There are several wonderful OLD churches there and some lovely museums. Everything is so compact, you can just walk everywhere.

We purchased our train tickets online in advance and got good fares. We did separate legs from Edinburgh to York and York to London the next day. The only trouble I ran into was that I had to use a UK postal code - I used the one from my London hotel along with my US mailing address, and my credit card company didn't notice/object.

In Edinburgh, you'd probably enjoy the walk up to Arthur's Seat - you leave from right near Holyrood Palace. It's a significant hill that gives great views of the city.

Just doing York as a day's stop between Edinburgh and London is certainly doable. But if if were me, I'd spend the night and take the train into London the next morning. No much difference in in the amount of free time you'll have in London whether you arrive late at night or the next morning.

I also think you have enough time to see Warwick.

then you'd have 3 days/nights in Wales and 1 or 2 in the Lake district.

mama_mia,

The thought goes through my mind that for walking Snowdonia and the Lake District offer much the same. Snowdonia takes you out on a limb and you have to retrace your steps so I would be inclined to skip it for the challenging walks bit and head to the Lakes, which perhaps offer a little more variety.

North Wales does have a number of superb castles, but you have to get there and back. If it's castles you want a trip up the west side of England via Warwick into Scotland offers you a choice from Kenilworth, Tamworth, Beeston, Brough, Brougham, Carlisle, Hermitage, Bothwell, Craignethan, Crichton and Craigmillar (and that should be enough to satisfy all but the most rabid castle nuts).

You also have cathedrals at Lichfield, Chester and Carlisle.

Michael

Good suggestions all. Unfortunately, I had sold my sons on Wales and now they want to stick with the plan. I am adding in 1 night in York on the train down. That would cut out one night in London, but I think we can see the highlights on our list with 4 nights. Leaves 3 nights in wales and 2 nights for return trip to Scotland.

Crazy ambitious perhaps. But I don't know when we will get back to England -- Greece, Germany, Ireland, Eastern Europe, and many other places are on my wish list, too. Oh, and a really long return trip to Italy.

Your plan may seem hectic (and it is a bit) but it is much better than a lot of the itineraries foksk try out here.

Don't worry - you will have time. And being in York in the evening after the day trippers have left is special.

Don't give up on Warwick. If you get an early start out of London and get to Warwick right at opening time (it opens at 10:00 but the shop and ticket windows open earlier) you will have time to explore the castle and get to N Wales looooong before dark.

<i>I had sold my sons on Wales</i>

Are they over 18? If so tell them the beer's better in the Lake District - which it is.

M

York is definitely doable - either as a day stop on the way from Scotland or an overnighter.
Speaking as a history major and castle freak - DO NOT consider skipping the castles in North Wales. I have been to castles all over Britain and by far the best selection in a relatively small area are in North Wales. Do spend at least 3 nights there.

Check out this website - maps and pictures.
Look at the North Wales map and pictures and the Nothwest Wales Map and Harlech-
NOTE: the castles with more than 3 stars - they are ones NOT to miss

OOps posted too quick:
http://www.castlewales.com/maps.html

For castles in Wales, another good website is www.cadw.wales.gov.uk

If visiting several castles, a Heritage membership might save some money. They do have a family membership. Information on the website.