BPJones

I am planning a trip for next summer for myself and my 12 your old son to England and Scotland. I think we can stay for @10-11 nights (plus 2 days for travel there and back = 12-13 days). I was thinking that we would stay in Kent (specifically Rye) for 2 nights and see Battle, Dover Castle, & Canterbury.
Then off to London for 3-4 nights - seeing at least the Tower of London, the British Museum, London Eye, a trip down the Thames, Hampton Court, and maybe Westminster Abbey. We also want to see a show one night, and take a "Harry Potter" walk one evening.
Next on the agenda is Oxford. See the campus and stayover one night. Then to Stratford upon Avon. I had been planning on 1 night here, but we might need 2. We definitely want to see Warwick Castle and Kenilworth (both near here). The Shakespeare attractions fall lower in priorities, but it does seem a shame to not see some of them since we are there.
Next is York for one night. With a trip to see Castle Howard. Then to Edinburgh for 2 nights. This comes to 10-12 nights staying in Great Britain. Is this a good plan? Should I cut something and stay longer somewhere else? I am leaving out a quot;must-see"? We want to see a lot, but we also want to enjoy it, and not have to feel frantically rushed by the itinerary. If I had to make a cut, right now I am thinking to cut Oxford, but my son does want to see where the "Great Hall" from Harry Potter is . . . and I would like to see the campus.
If I can figure out an easy cost-effective way to fly into London and out of Edinburgh, I will shoot for that. However, there are no direct flights from Edinburgh to home, but there are from London. If we fly out of London though, we would need to take a train back from Edinburgh. I think we would try for an overnight train if it came to that. (We could also take an overnight train to Edinburgh after London, and then work our way back through York, Stratford upon Avon, and Oxford.)
Should I buy a Britrail pass? We will be traveling by train quite a bit. Does this pass cover the underground in London, and if not, should I buy a travelcard for those days?
I would appreciate any advice about this trip. I know I have asked a lot of questions! And I apologize for such a long post!

eliza3

I would cut Edinburgh from this trip.
As much as I love it, 2 nights is not long there. I would add a night or even 2 to York or to London. Oxford is lovely and the University very interesting.

alanRow

I wouldn't say Oxford has a campus - it's a bit strung out all over the city. You might find this link useful

www.ox.ac.uk/visitors/

janisj

BPJones: You can do open jaw even w/o direct flights out of EDI. It is just that the first leg from EDI will go through London, or Ireland, or somewhere.

I would alter a few bits because you havn't given yourself enough time in some places.

1) Maybe just do one night in Kent staying In Canterbury. There really isn't much at Battle and you could visit Canterbury your arrival day, Dover the next, and then take the train up to London. Kent is terrific - but you'd need more time (and a car) to really see much of it. So I'd just concebtrate on Dover Castle and Canterbury.

2) 3-4 nights is not very long for London - but since you won't be jet lagged by the time you get there you really will be able to see quite a lot. For your list of "musts" - count on 4 or maybe 5 nights.

3) Oxford isn't a campus. Instead of staying there overnight, I'd take a morning train, tour the city and take a walking tour from the tourist information center. Then in the late afternoon/early evening take the train to Stratford or Warwick. Spend 2 nights - one day to see Warwick/Kenilworth and one for Stratford.

Now you have spent 7 nights - on to York for 2 nights. You need one day for York and another for Castle Howard and some of the countryside. (Or you could stay just one night and take an evening train to Edinburgh giving you the best part of 2 full days there)

The rest of your time in Edinburgh - then fly home . . . .

janisj

oh - to clarify, I meant &quot;Or you could stay just one night and take an evening train to Edinburgh giving you the best part of 2 full days <u>in York</u>&quot;

bilboburgler

Thoughts not sure how helpful

Possible open jaws can include Manchester if Edninburgh does not fly back to your home base.

You do need a car to see a lot of what you want but don't forget the train which will take some of the strain off

Britrail pass. British rail passed on years ago but try looking at thetrainline.com to understand early booking advantages etc

I would drop Kent a bit and add to York (medieval walls, centre, castle etc etc. You could also add Lincoln in on the way up.

Campus as everyone else says does not exist. The tourist bus round robin in Oxford gives you a good start. You need t ovisit Christchurch for the HArry P bit. If you want a more filmic visit to Oxford try Magdalen as well for the punting

rogerdodger

I think janis has a very good plan. Regarding the Britrail pass. You can buy the pass from different sites...I, for what ever reason, buy mind from Rick Steves. In any event, check them out as they have passes that allow 8 days within a 60 day period, as well as many others. The good thing about the pass is you can take any train at any time.

flanneruk

We're getting a bit confused over Oxford.

No, the University of Oxford doesn't have a campus (though Oxford's also got a less well known university that does) - but the city's medieval/Tudor/Jacobean core consists almost entirelyof buildings that are part of that university or its constituent colleges. This bit is highly compact (much more so than most similar US campus universities) and very distinctive: the outlying bits (laboratories, colleges designed for girls, that kind of thing) look like practically any other academic institution anywhere, only uglier.

Most of that core - which to be honest looks and feels like a campus, but with streets rather than lawns - is inaccesible by motor vehicle: bus tours take you round the naff parts, so Oxford's a city where a tourist's got absolutely no option but to walk or cycle - either joining a guided tour like the one Janis recommends or self-directing using the guides at www.visitoxford.org

Oxford's not a good place to stay in, as it's got surprisingly few (and pricey) hotel rooms. But if you take janis' advice about arriving then going on elsewhere, and you're on a train, be aware there are no luggage storage facilities at the station. Backpackers Hostel (www.hostels.co.uk), about 500 yards away, has a sign up implying they DO store bags.

The break-up of British Rail has nothing to do with Britrail, a US company. I understand there's supposed to be a facility on the Britrail website that lets you compare the price of their passes with buying as you go (search Fodors for references to this). I can't begin to believe their software really stores the infinite complexity of UK rail fares, so it almost certainly exaggerates the benefits of the Britrail pass. Use the trainline or www.nationalrail.co.uk sites to work out the lowest possible fares, booking appropriately in advance, then compare the result with Britrail.

For travel deals in London, search this site for Oystercard, or spend a year or three at the www.tfl.org site costing travelcards.

Mimar

You could make Oxford a daytrip from London by train or bus. The Oxford &quot;Tube&quot; bus leaves from near Victoria station and some other locations.

And, yes, York deserves more time.

If you had a car, I'd say go to Bodiam Castle from Rye -- and maybe Leeds Castle. Bodiam is out in the open countryside and surrounded by a moat, easy to imagine it in medieval times.

Castle Howard is not a castle but a large stately home. And a bit out of the way for such a short trip. There's definitely an awful lot of stops for such a short trip. And a lot of traveling. I'd be tempted to drop both Kent/Sussex and Edinburgh, unless you can find a good flight out of Edinburgh.

Margo

Castle Howard is only interesting from the outside. Inside hasn't been changed for maybe 50 years and is a dusty, uninteresting museum place. (I have been there 3 times and recently in May). Skip it and go to Alnwich Castle instead. That is where something in Harry Potter was filmed. It is a really &quot;cool&quot; castle in a kids view. The garden is to die for.--has a maze and poison garden!

Bamburg castle, near to Alnwich, is also interesting.

I also don't think that Oxford will be very interesting to your son.

I think your London itinerary is good and Warwick castle is good. Also Dover castle. Battle is hard to make sense of as it is a walk around the probable battleground. Not too interesting IMO.

I recently took British Airway into London and out of Edinburgh (via London). Leave enough time for tranfers at Heathrow.

I am trying to look at this itinerary through a 12 yo eyes. You will need a car to get to many of these places. So why not start in London then train to Dover and rent the car (I've done that and it is convenient for the rest of the places)

Margo

Morgana

Well I've read some surprising things on here, but to have Castle Howard - absolutely one of England's greatest Treasure Houses and Stately homes, dismissed as &quot;a dusty, uninteresting museum place&quot; just astounds me!
It is the most wonderful place and I would always recommend a visit to the house AND gardens. It is packed full of history and has something for everyone.
www.castlehoward.co.uk
I live locally if you need more info on York and North Yorkshire.
Your son (and you!) would probably love the National Railway Museum in York (free entry)
www.nrm.org.uk
Alnwick and Bamburgh (note spellings) are great too, but you really don't have enough time to visit these on your current itinerary.

janisj

Could not agree w/ Morgana more. Castle Howard is truly a gem. While Alnwick/Bamburgh are nice too - just not possible to see everything on such a short visit.

fnarf999

Re: Britrail. My wife very carefully plotted all possible permutations of our upcoming trip around the north of England, and no matter how she worked it, the walkup fare given on nationalrail.co.uk ranged between &quot;cheaper&quot; and &quot;much cheaper&quot; than any of the Britrail passes.

Maybe if you're taking more than one mainline trip of 400 miles or longer it works, but I'd check it out.

Margo

Hey, guys and girls, I wasn't trying to disparage Castle Howard. It is a real piece of work as they say. Outside it is a terrific photo. Again I say the inside is disappointing. Several in our group said the same. Only 4-5 rooms were on view as well as the hall and round entryway. It was full of stuff, alright, but no wow factor there. I am comparing it to the likes of Burghley House, Chatsworth, Blenheim, and Waddesdon Manor.

Alnwick Castle is more a castle than a Stately House. For a 12 yo interested in Hogwarts/Harry Potter things, Alnwick is the place to go. It is not out of the way if one is driving the A1 to Edinburgh from York via Newcastle.

Another place of interest for kids in York might be the Jorvic Viking Museum.

Finally I can't think of a way to combine renting a car and taking the train to these many attraction. You just don't need the car in London or Edinburgh.

jonbobbi

When in Kent Canterbury and Dover Castle are recommended. From Rye, if you could hire a car and drive to Tenterden you can then get steam train to Bodiam Castle, great for a 12 year old I would say.
Not much at Battle.
We recently visited York and really enjoyed the railway museum. Actually I am not a railway nut or anything, but they are two good days out.
Seems like you are trying to do too much to me, all worthy but I would cut it down and plan to come again if you like the first visit...

janisj

margo - they aren't driving the A-1. (And if they were driving they don't have nearly enough time for this trek) They are taking trains. Alnwick is a few miles from the nearest station.