Trip Report II: Food
Jun 6th, 2004, 06:01 PM
#21
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I agree that the prices people are quoting don;t seem high to me. Here even in a modest neighborhood restaurant a meal for two with a shared appetizer, two main courses, a glass of wine each, and coffee with tip and tax will be at least $60. Perhaps its just the difference betwwen eating in a small town and in a world capitol - of course the latter is going to be more expensive.
A simple way to cut meal costs is just not to have a major meal at lunch - at home who ever eats multi-course cooked meals for both lunch and dinner anyway? For lunch just go into a local cafe or trattoria and have a sandwich or pizza - or share a salad and each have a pasta. IMHO this is a much more normal amount of food if you're going to have a big dinner.
A simple way to cut meal costs is just not to have a major meal at lunch - at home who ever eats multi-course cooked meals for both lunch and dinner anyway? For lunch just go into a local cafe or trattoria and have a sandwich or pizza - or share a salad and each have a pasta. IMHO this is a much more normal amount of food if you're going to have a big dinner.
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Jun 7th, 2004, 05:50 AM
#23
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Ira, I'm not sure what your question is. Do you think that just because a slice of pizza has brie (or truffles) on it that wine (maybe) should be the beverage of choice? Try telling that to a 23-year-old at lunch and all the Italians who love Coke with their pizza (regardless of the toppings).
Jun 7th, 2004, 05:52 AM
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Okay, NYC, I'll bite (no pun intended.)
Q: Why would anyone take restaurant or food advice from an untested stranger?
A: For the same reason that they consult tripadvisor.com for hotel reviews. The strong desire for free exchange of information between the general public, as opposed to 'experts', is why messageboards such as Fodors and tripadvisor are so successful. The operative word here being information, not advice.
Q: Why would anyone take advice from someone with no apparent love for the subject?
A: Again, the caveat here is that information on messageboards is just that, information. I think we can give due credit to at least the majority of readers of this board that they can figure that out for themselves.
Plus, if what you and Grinisa say is true about guidebook authors (who presumably would meet your criteria as having love for their subject) they aren't necessarily any more informative than an "untested stranger" about the experience of eating out in Venice.
Q: Why would anyone take advice from someone so obsessed with low cost?
A: Because we're all entitled to our obsessions.
Regarding metellus' rating code, I think it is understood that this is meaningful only insofar as it is relative to him. It has no inherent objective value, any more than your own qualitative descriptions of 'tasty' or 'wonderful' have any absolute objective value. It's just a relative scale of one person's personal reaction. Actually, I thought it rather creative of him to come up with something other than 'good' or 'very good' as a way of rating his preferences.
Q: Why would anyone take restaurant or food advice from an untested stranger?
A: For the same reason that they consult tripadvisor.com for hotel reviews. The strong desire for free exchange of information between the general public, as opposed to 'experts', is why messageboards such as Fodors and tripadvisor are so successful. The operative word here being information, not advice.
Q: Why would anyone take advice from someone with no apparent love for the subject?
A: Again, the caveat here is that information on messageboards is just that, information. I think we can give due credit to at least the majority of readers of this board that they can figure that out for themselves.
Plus, if what you and Grinisa say is true about guidebook authors (who presumably would meet your criteria as having love for their subject) they aren't necessarily any more informative than an "untested stranger" about the experience of eating out in Venice.
Q: Why would anyone take advice from someone so obsessed with low cost?
A: Because we're all entitled to our obsessions.
Regarding metellus' rating code, I think it is understood that this is meaningful only insofar as it is relative to him. It has no inherent objective value, any more than your own qualitative descriptions of 'tasty' or 'wonderful' have any absolute objective value. It's just a relative scale of one person's personal reaction. Actually, I thought it rather creative of him to come up with something other than 'good' or 'very good' as a way of rating his preferences.
Jun 7th, 2004, 07:03 AM
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Hi NYCFS,
My taste buds are trying to encompass the taste of Brie (a very strong flavor) with pizza, but I'm not a cutting edge sort of person.
As far as the Coke goes, I should expect that Italian soft drinkd would be more complementary as well as cheaper.
My taste buds are trying to encompass the taste of Brie (a very strong flavor) with pizza, but I'm not a cutting edge sort of person.
As far as the Coke goes, I should expect that Italian soft drinkd would be more complementary as well as cheaper.
Jun 7th, 2004, 07:27 AM
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Well, Sue, you can put your bicuspid sharpener away. 
My three questions were meant to be simple food for thought (all pun intended).
Of course, I fully encourage a continued free-flow of information (even if it's useless) and nothing I say would make anyone stop, I'm sure. I love the internet! If you read my writing carefully, I <b>never</b> try to control people or their actions or tell them what to do but I do ask them to consider a second look.
What one sees as they enter a hotel room is much easier to describe in words than the complexities one experiences on the front, middle, and back of their tongue. Room size, bed size, drapery color, view or no view, and description of furniture are universal images even though some people bring these images to life better than others because they're good writers.
But, food and taste-sensation is quite another thing and the intention of my "rant" was to remind people of those complexities or, even, that they exist.
I don't think there was anything creative about metellus' overuse of the words good, great, and blah and pretty much ending there. Even "Calabrian foodie" didn't tell me much. Yet, he did get creative with his ratings. I'll take more thoughtful food descriptions over creative ratings any day.
And, yes, we're all entitled to our obsessions. By all means, carry on folks!
Personally, I find obsessions irritating and I question their health benefit. Plus, I think obsessing about finding good, low-cost food to eat in Italy will simply invite more unhappy frustration. And, obsessing about such things on travel forums feeds the bigger problem of discouraging anyone to reveal a true "find" to avoid it from becoming another over-crowded, less-than-satisfactory, low-cost choice to choose from. Unfortunately, the majority of tourists just happen to be in search of the same holy grail. Hey, but who am I to try to fix what's wrong with the world or travel forums? I'll just keep my low-cost restaurant secrets between me and Grinisa.
My three questions were meant to be simple food for thought (all pun intended).Of course, I fully encourage a continued free-flow of information (even if it's useless) and nothing I say would make anyone stop, I'm sure. I love the internet! If you read my writing carefully, I <b>never</b> try to control people or their actions or tell them what to do but I do ask them to consider a second look.
What one sees as they enter a hotel room is much easier to describe in words than the complexities one experiences on the front, middle, and back of their tongue. Room size, bed size, drapery color, view or no view, and description of furniture are universal images even though some people bring these images to life better than others because they're good writers.
But, food and taste-sensation is quite another thing and the intention of my "rant" was to remind people of those complexities or, even, that they exist.
I don't think there was anything creative about metellus' overuse of the words good, great, and blah and pretty much ending there. Even "Calabrian foodie" didn't tell me much. Yet, he did get creative with his ratings. I'll take more thoughtful food descriptions over creative ratings any day.
And, yes, we're all entitled to our obsessions. By all means, carry on folks!
Personally, I find obsessions irritating and I question their health benefit. Plus, I think obsessing about finding good, low-cost food to eat in Italy will simply invite more unhappy frustration. And, obsessing about such things on travel forums feeds the bigger problem of discouraging anyone to reveal a true "find" to avoid it from becoming another over-crowded, less-than-satisfactory, low-cost choice to choose from. Unfortunately, the majority of tourists just happen to be in search of the same holy grail. Hey, but who am I to try to fix what's wrong with the world or travel forums? I'll just keep my low-cost restaurant secrets between me and Grinisa.
Jun 7th, 2004, 10:38 AM
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Having just returned from three weeks in Europe I still have receipts that will attest to the fact that London takes the cake in the food department ... 32.00 Pounds (at nearly $2.00 to the pound) for hamburgers, fries, and beer (oen each) for two ... and that at a small neighborhood restaurant that we tried simply because we "wanted a quick bite to eat" on our way to the Whitechapel Gallery.
I understand what you mean when you talk about not being able to order all of the courses offered in the Italian menus ... but would you really want all that food? We usually ordered an antipasta course, pasta, and either a salad or dessert ... oh yes, wine. Our bills were usually arund 30 to 40 Euros. I have heard it is considered bad form to order only one course, but I doubt that you MUST order them all.
Our best meal during the trip (perhaps ever) was salads, pizza, and liberal amounts of wine at a small cafe/bar at near Piazza del Michaelangelo in Florence ... timed it to coincide with the sunset and enjoyed a wonderful view and a very leisurely meal.
I understand what you mean when you talk about not being able to order all of the courses offered in the Italian menus ... but would you really want all that food? We usually ordered an antipasta course, pasta, and either a salad or dessert ... oh yes, wine. Our bills were usually arund 30 to 40 Euros. I have heard it is considered bad form to order only one course, but I doubt that you MUST order them all.
Our best meal during the trip (perhaps ever) was salads, pizza, and liberal amounts of wine at a small cafe/bar at near Piazza del Michaelangelo in Florence ... timed it to coincide with the sunset and enjoyed a wonderful view and a very leisurely meal.
Jun 7th, 2004, 11:43 AM
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NYC
It is possible that many of the misunderstandings that you and I have had are due to the nature of the medium which we share, for on the Internet neither of us can hear the other's tone of voice or read her face. And I do acknowledge from our more recent encounters that you intend no harm. That said, I agree that second looks are important, and hope that you will accept an invitation to take a second look at what you wrote. I do mean it as an invitation - pay no attention to that bicuspid sharpener in my left hand....
First, much of your commentary was about the **person** who posted this thread, as opposed to the substance of his review. For example, in much of your post you refer to metellus in the third person. This to me doesn't sound like an innocent invitation to him to take a second look as you claimed, since by using the third person you did not address your remarks to him but to the board. Furthermore, given that you strongly disagreed with his observations, this third-person reference amounted to inviting the board to collude with you against him. Maybe you feel he deserves censure, but you are asking an awful lot of me to equate an attempt to censure someone with kind encouragement.
Second, when you make statements like "too bad metellus didn't know [this or that]" you have not proven that his lack of knowledge was responsible for his poor experiences, your 'too bads' notwithstanding. There are many possible explanations why we react to food the way we do, and yes, our own expertise, not to mention our expectations cannot be ruled out as explanations. However, you can't argue that metellus' failure to acquire enough knowledge and expertise, ie. work hard enough to have a good time was the cause of his flawed vacation, since the opportunity to goof off, i.e. stop working so damned hard, is precisely why many of us go on vacation in the first place.
Admittedly, many if not most of us go abroad with the idea that a European vacation is intended to double as something of an educational experience, and yes, getting the best education possible requires work. However, might I state for the record that a magnitude factor is at play here - it is one thing to have to peruse a few recent guidebooks to find a good restaurant in one's price category, and quite another to have it maintained, as you do, that 'all' one has to do to find a good meal is ferret out what amount to state secrets to which only a handful of anointed ones are somehow privileged. If what you say is true then it favours, rather than disputes, metellus' contention that satisfying food is elusive in Italy.
Speaking for myself, I'm willing to do a little research, but within reason - otherwise, I'll simply stuff my daypack full of Pop-Tarts and be done with it.
As it is, NYC, you do seem to be quite knowledgeable, and certainly nobody can doubt the sincerity of your affection for Italy. Therefore, I'll happily give you the recognition you deserve, but only if you submit your knowledge to being taken on its own merits, rather than at someone else's expense.
It is possible that many of the misunderstandings that you and I have had are due to the nature of the medium which we share, for on the Internet neither of us can hear the other's tone of voice or read her face. And I do acknowledge from our more recent encounters that you intend no harm. That said, I agree that second looks are important, and hope that you will accept an invitation to take a second look at what you wrote. I do mean it as an invitation - pay no attention to that bicuspid sharpener in my left hand....
First, much of your commentary was about the **person** who posted this thread, as opposed to the substance of his review. For example, in much of your post you refer to metellus in the third person. This to me doesn't sound like an innocent invitation to him to take a second look as you claimed, since by using the third person you did not address your remarks to him but to the board. Furthermore, given that you strongly disagreed with his observations, this third-person reference amounted to inviting the board to collude with you against him. Maybe you feel he deserves censure, but you are asking an awful lot of me to equate an attempt to censure someone with kind encouragement.
Second, when you make statements like "too bad metellus didn't know [this or that]" you have not proven that his lack of knowledge was responsible for his poor experiences, your 'too bads' notwithstanding. There are many possible explanations why we react to food the way we do, and yes, our own expertise, not to mention our expectations cannot be ruled out as explanations. However, you can't argue that metellus' failure to acquire enough knowledge and expertise, ie. work hard enough to have a good time was the cause of his flawed vacation, since the opportunity to goof off, i.e. stop working so damned hard, is precisely why many of us go on vacation in the first place.
Admittedly, many if not most of us go abroad with the idea that a European vacation is intended to double as something of an educational experience, and yes, getting the best education possible requires work. However, might I state for the record that a magnitude factor is at play here - it is one thing to have to peruse a few recent guidebooks to find a good restaurant in one's price category, and quite another to have it maintained, as you do, that 'all' one has to do to find a good meal is ferret out what amount to state secrets to which only a handful of anointed ones are somehow privileged. If what you say is true then it favours, rather than disputes, metellus' contention that satisfying food is elusive in Italy.
Speaking for myself, I'm willing to do a little research, but within reason - otherwise, I'll simply stuff my daypack full of Pop-Tarts and be done with it.
As it is, NYC, you do seem to be quite knowledgeable, and certainly nobody can doubt the sincerity of your affection for Italy. Therefore, I'll happily give you the recognition you deserve, but only if you submit your knowledge to being taken on its own merits, rather than at someone else's expense.
Jun 7th, 2004, 01:50 PM
#30
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Pop-Tarts??? YUK! May I suggest you try a Double Chocolate Zone Perfect bar (and feel free to let me know what you think).
I'll admit, I'm stymied, Sue. Is it possible to ever over analyze?
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't think of anonymous posters on any internet forum as real people. If I did, I don't think I could participate because too many of these posters are just too ugly to consider as human (even though I know they are). At least fodors requires some decorum. The foul, curse-word insults on some of the Apple and photography boards is unbelievable. It's definitely search at your own risk.
So, whether first, second, or third person, none of that matters to me and I have no hidden agenda or ulterior motive. I'm not writing a Masters thesis for a Harvard English professor and nor am I looking to get my travel musings published in the new England Journal of Medicine.
Frankly, my writing style here is simply how I choose to present my opinion and travel observations using my online personality known as NYCFoodSnob, and I write as I think (without the lovely assistance of a professional editor). Some of the finest writers and writing teachers recommend writing as you think.
I think enough smart readers out there know, in human terms, I haven't a mean bone in my entire body and I treat all people I meet in public with respect (even if I discover you're not human after all). Nothing I write hear should ever be interpreted as mean-spirited or having malice intent, regardless of how caustic it sounds. It's simply my style.
<i>"This to me doesn't sound like an innocent invitation to him to take a second look as you claimed, since by using the third person you did not address your remarks to him but to the board."</i>
Oh, please, dear Sue, I find semantics (and people who engage) <b>really</b> boring. I love the English language (as much as I do French and Italian) but let's not get carried away.
There's nothing innocent about me anymore because I'm an old broad with my share of world-travel battle scars. And, yes, I'm almost always addressing the board and not the OP, even if I use the OP's name throughout my commentary. When I write to someone directly, I try to make it very obvious.
<i>"...given that you strongly disagreed with his observations..."</i>
I did no such thing. I merely expressed how his observations affected me.
<i>"...this third-person reference amounted to inviting the board to collude with you against him."</i>
Nonsense. I do not participate in collusive activity, whatsoever.
<i>"Maybe you feel he deserves censure"</i>
As long as a poster doesn't attack another with curse words, I do not feel anybody deserves censure, regardless of what they have to say about bland, over-priced food in Italy (or anything else for that matter).
<i>"Second, when you make statements like "too bad metellus didn't know [this or that]" you have not proven that his lack of knowledge was responsible for his poor experiences"</i>
Did I mention over analyzing? I'm never out to prove anything when I contribute here and nor do I care about all the possible explanations for something. Please, I've had enough experience with drugs.
<i>"However, you can't argue that metellus' failure to acquire enough knowledge and expertise, ie. work hard enough to have a good time was the cause of his flawed vacation, since the opportunity to goof off, i.e. stop working so damned hard, is precisely why many of us go on vacation in the first place."</i>
Oh, Sue, relax. I wasn't arguing for anything. I think it's time for the treadmill (for me, that is).
<i>"However, might I state for the record that a magnitude factor is at play here..."</i>
Say what? OK, Sue, if we really care about proper English and post positive conjunctions, your sentence needs to read, "May I, however, state for the record..." but I have no desire to teach English here since I write, too, without a professional editors help. But, "magnitude factor?" I mean, really? Maybe you <i>should</i> join me on the treadmill. O
<i>"...it is one thing to have to peruse a few recent guidebooks to find a good restaurant in one's price category, and quite another to have it maintained, as you do, that 'all' one has to do to find a good meal is ferret out what amount to state secrets to which only a handful of anointed ones are somehow privileged."</i>
Nobody has to be <i>privileged</i> and/or <i>anointed</i> (presumably by the Pope) to chummy up to numerous local businesspersons and ask them where they prefer to eat and/or what is their favorite dish. A little common sense can turn every tourist into Inspector Clouseau. Of course, speaking the local language and participating in a real conversation can reveal much more than anyone could possibly imagine.
I'll admit, I'm stymied, Sue. Is it possible to ever over analyze?
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't think of anonymous posters on any internet forum as real people. If I did, I don't think I could participate because too many of these posters are just too ugly to consider as human (even though I know they are). At least fodors requires some decorum. The foul, curse-word insults on some of the Apple and photography boards is unbelievable. It's definitely search at your own risk.
So, whether first, second, or third person, none of that matters to me and I have no hidden agenda or ulterior motive. I'm not writing a Masters thesis for a Harvard English professor and nor am I looking to get my travel musings published in the new England Journal of Medicine.
Frankly, my writing style here is simply how I choose to present my opinion and travel observations using my online personality known as NYCFoodSnob, and I write as I think (without the lovely assistance of a professional editor). Some of the finest writers and writing teachers recommend writing as you think.
I think enough smart readers out there know, in human terms, I haven't a mean bone in my entire body and I treat all people I meet in public with respect (even if I discover you're not human after all). Nothing I write hear should ever be interpreted as mean-spirited or having malice intent, regardless of how caustic it sounds. It's simply my style.
<i>"This to me doesn't sound like an innocent invitation to him to take a second look as you claimed, since by using the third person you did not address your remarks to him but to the board."</i>
Oh, please, dear Sue, I find semantics (and people who engage) <b>really</b> boring. I love the English language (as much as I do French and Italian) but let's not get carried away.
There's nothing innocent about me anymore because I'm an old broad with my share of world-travel battle scars. And, yes, I'm almost always addressing the board and not the OP, even if I use the OP's name throughout my commentary. When I write to someone directly, I try to make it very obvious.
<i>"...given that you strongly disagreed with his observations..."</i>
I did no such thing. I merely expressed how his observations affected me.
<i>"...this third-person reference amounted to inviting the board to collude with you against him."</i>
Nonsense. I do not participate in collusive activity, whatsoever.
<i>"Maybe you feel he deserves censure"</i>
As long as a poster doesn't attack another with curse words, I do not feel anybody deserves censure, regardless of what they have to say about bland, over-priced food in Italy (or anything else for that matter).
<i>"Second, when you make statements like "too bad metellus didn't know [this or that]" you have not proven that his lack of knowledge was responsible for his poor experiences"</i>
Did I mention over analyzing? I'm never out to prove anything when I contribute here and nor do I care about all the possible explanations for something. Please, I've had enough experience with drugs.
<i>"However, you can't argue that metellus' failure to acquire enough knowledge and expertise, ie. work hard enough to have a good time was the cause of his flawed vacation, since the opportunity to goof off, i.e. stop working so damned hard, is precisely why many of us go on vacation in the first place."</i>
Oh, Sue, relax. I wasn't arguing for anything. I think it's time for the treadmill (for me, that is).
<i>"However, might I state for the record that a magnitude factor is at play here..."</i>
Say what? OK, Sue, if we really care about proper English and post positive conjunctions, your sentence needs to read, "May I, however, state for the record..." but I have no desire to teach English here since I write, too, without a professional editors help. But, "magnitude factor?" I mean, really? Maybe you <i>should</i> join me on the treadmill. O
<i>"...it is one thing to have to peruse a few recent guidebooks to find a good restaurant in one's price category, and quite another to have it maintained, as you do, that 'all' one has to do to find a good meal is ferret out what amount to state secrets to which only a handful of anointed ones are somehow privileged."</i>
Nobody has to be <i>privileged</i> and/or <i>anointed</i> (presumably by the Pope) to chummy up to numerous local businesspersons and ask them where they prefer to eat and/or what is their favorite dish. A little common sense can turn every tourist into Inspector Clouseau. Of course, speaking the local language and participating in a real conversation can reveal much more than anyone could possibly imagine.
Jun 7th, 2004, 03:19 PM
#31
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NYFS, thanks for including me--you can send that list along any time now. I just want to clarify my earlier statement regarding guidebooks. I'm not saying it's impossible to find a good place to eat in a guidebook, certainly there are plenty of decent places that are listed in many different books and maintain their quality. Checchino dal 1887 comes to mind. It is commonly referred to as one of Rome's best restaurants in numerous guides, both general and food related, and in my opinion, it is. However, Checchino has the "advantage" of being in Testaccio, on a back street next to closed stockyards, serves offal and is expensive and dressy. It is never going to be a place where a tour bus full of Japanese, Peruvians whatever will pull up and tuck in. Casalinga, being close to the center of Florence, between a major museum and frequently visited church, serving food palatable to anybody at inexpensive prices, well that adds up to an undiscovered gem's destruction by popularity. I still think it is difficult to find a bad meal in Italy, and you don't have to annointed or privy to state secrets to do so. Are you looking for places that are open after 8:30 pm? Is there no menu posted or even present anywhere in the restaurant other than maybe on a blackboard or handwritten on a spiral notebook that the waiter gives to you? Is there a crowd of Italians loitering around the door waiting for the next table or part of a table that they are more than willing to share with strangers? Is the wine served in a carafe filled from a spigot out of steel fridge in the back? Is it not on Piazza Navona or at the bottom of the Spanish Steps? These places are all over Rome and other Italian cities; you just need to do a little investigating on your own to find them.
Jun 7th, 2004, 05:17 PM
#32
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I think newspapers, certain magazines, and some well-known restaurant-critic books are far superior to any tourist guide book I've ever read for seeking out good restaurant recommendations. I like the fact that Fodors offers a "rant and rave" option to its list of suggested places but I don't like not knowing much about the authors of these comments and/or their relationship to food or their dining-out experience. I wish registration offered a profile option. Before I accept someone's opinion on taste and aesthetic, it helps me if I can get a sense of their taste and aesthetic.
The one thing I don't like about the Zagat guides is they don't mention much about specific dishes, or often, don't say anything about staple menu items. Professional food critiques, even some Michelin guides, always include comprehensive information on what kind of cuisine and/or ingredient combinations to anticipate and often include prices for each dish mentioned. Knowing that menus change, a recent article or publication can provide wonderful clues and insight to help narrow down specific choices.
But, the bottom line is, if you want to know where the locals go to eat without breaking the bank and where few tourists tread, there's nothing like asking a few to find out what they have to say. There are plenty of locals who speak enough English to offer you the latest "jewel" piece of information. You just have to find a charming way to ask and be prepared with pen and paper.
Undiscovered and inexpensive "local" restaurants, that are worth trying, don't usually come with a serve-the-tourist agenda and typically don't offer menus in various languages or waiters who speak your language. Therefore, if you don't have a secure sense of adventure, if you don't speak some of the language, if you don't know how to ask your waiter what he/she would recommend, you will likely find the experience frustrating and scary. It does take more work to "fit in" like a local in a foreign place.
Lastly, I haven't a clue who Grinisa is but, by reading her comments about food on this and other forums, I can tell that she and her husband are people who enjoy masterful cooking. It wouldn't surprise me if she told me she's a very good cook, although I expect she's too modest to brag. In order to discover people on forums like Grinisa, it takes time and hours of reading research. I happen to think putting in some of that time can reap tremendous reward and make for a very satisfying travel and eating experience with as few flops as possible.
Thank you, metellus, for being such a good sport.
The one thing I don't like about the Zagat guides is they don't mention much about specific dishes, or often, don't say anything about staple menu items. Professional food critiques, even some Michelin guides, always include comprehensive information on what kind of cuisine and/or ingredient combinations to anticipate and often include prices for each dish mentioned. Knowing that menus change, a recent article or publication can provide wonderful clues and insight to help narrow down specific choices.
But, the bottom line is, if you want to know where the locals go to eat without breaking the bank and where few tourists tread, there's nothing like asking a few to find out what they have to say. There are plenty of locals who speak enough English to offer you the latest "jewel" piece of information. You just have to find a charming way to ask and be prepared with pen and paper.
Undiscovered and inexpensive "local" restaurants, that are worth trying, don't usually come with a serve-the-tourist agenda and typically don't offer menus in various languages or waiters who speak your language. Therefore, if you don't have a secure sense of adventure, if you don't speak some of the language, if you don't know how to ask your waiter what he/she would recommend, you will likely find the experience frustrating and scary. It does take more work to "fit in" like a local in a foreign place.
Lastly, I haven't a clue who Grinisa is but, by reading her comments about food on this and other forums, I can tell that she and her husband are people who enjoy masterful cooking. It wouldn't surprise me if she told me she's a very good cook, although I expect she's too modest to brag. In order to discover people on forums like Grinisa, it takes time and hours of reading research. I happen to think putting in some of that time can reap tremendous reward and make for a very satisfying travel and eating experience with as few flops as possible.
Thank you, metellus, for being such a good sport.
Jul 16th, 2004, 06:57 PM
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NYCFS, darling, Hi from your fellow NYC and love it.
I really enjoy your report on restaurants and would like to ask your input on places to eat in Florence, Siena, Sorrento,Naples, Capri-we prefer to eat where the locals eat, far from the tourist path, except for few dinners perhaps . I think this is the great way to really experience local flavor and spirit, not just for food but for hole atmosphere.....and also what to ask as for a drink besides wine(why so many talk about wine, don't we have Italian wine here in our G-d bless Amerika?) I have heard about oranje campary(I hope I got it right)..anything else?anyone?
Appreciate any input.
Chiao.
I really enjoy your report on restaurants and would like to ask your input on places to eat in Florence, Siena, Sorrento,Naples, Capri-we prefer to eat where the locals eat, far from the tourist path, except for few dinners perhaps . I think this is the great way to really experience local flavor and spirit, not just for food but for hole atmosphere.....and also what to ask as for a drink besides wine(why so many talk about wine, don't we have Italian wine here in our G-d bless Amerika?) I have heard about oranje campary(I hope I got it right)..anything else?anyone?
Appreciate any input.
Chiao.
Aug 7th, 2004, 06:12 AM
#34
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"Message: I almost forgot. Where did you find the "chinese" restaurants in Italy? Are you sure you were in "Italy" or as you call it "Italian"? I really do not remember seeing a "chinese" restaurant in Florence, Rome, Siena or Amalfi -- Positano."
I guess you blind as well as dim. There are plenty of Chinese restaurants in Rome.
I guess you blind as well as dim. There are plenty of Chinese restaurants in Rome.
Aug 7th, 2004, 06:17 AM
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"Author: NYCFoodSnob
Date: 06/06/2004, 02:29 pm
It seems to me many people have the burgeoning desire to be Craig Claiborne, Gael Greene, and/or Tim and Nina Zagat, and certainly here on Travel Talk you do get your chance at playing Ebert"
That's really rich coming from you. Phtysician heal thyself.
"What strikes me as odd about this trip report/restaurant-food-critique is...why did metellus bother? Other than "remember to ignore Rick Steves," is anything he offered really worth noting? Or, was this just an opportunity to fantasize and/or vent?"
I write to correct the snobby, arrogant and simply incorrect rantings of people like you.
Date: 06/06/2004, 02:29 pm
It seems to me many people have the burgeoning desire to be Craig Claiborne, Gael Greene, and/or Tim and Nina Zagat, and certainly here on Travel Talk you do get your chance at playing Ebert"
That's really rich coming from you. Phtysician heal thyself.
"What strikes me as odd about this trip report/restaurant-food-critique is...why did metellus bother? Other than "remember to ignore Rick Steves," is anything he offered really worth noting? Or, was this just an opportunity to fantasize and/or vent?"
I write to correct the snobby, arrogant and simply incorrect rantings of people like you.
Aug 7th, 2004, 06:22 AM
#36
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"As long as a poster doesn't attack another with curse words, I do not feel anybody deserves censure."
So you prefer just being snide and condescending and then pleading innocence. That deserves a lot more cenure than the odd curse word.
So you prefer just being snide and condescending and then pleading innocence. That deserves a lot more cenure than the odd curse word.
Aug 7th, 2004, 06:25 AM
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Metellus: What was on the "Calabrian food platter" that you mentioned, and hat was the style of the cooking? I haven't been to Calabria yet, and though I'm part Calabrese, my Calabrese grandfather wasn't the one cooking, I'm not really familiar with the food. I heard aout Calabre cooking when I was in Basilicata, but I wonder what was served as Calabrian in a more distant region.
