nibblette

I have recently been going on a few active (sports) tours - all-inclusive, small groups (12-16 max), all equipment provided/serviced, no optional tours selling, usually 4* accomodations.
The guides are with us 12-14 hours a day and then always available by phone otherwise. Trips have been in Europe, North and South America, guides are frequently but not always from the area (I have had American guides outside the US!).

Two years ago, I was told by others in the group who had done these tours previously that the recommended tips were $10/guide/day from each person. I also use 5% of base cost divided between the 2 guides, usually whichever is higher (I have always had fantastic guides). So tips have run $50-80 per guide normally.
But, on my last trip, using these guidelines, I was considered tipping too low! One person said it should be along the lines of $15/guide/day! That came out to be close to 10% of the tour price and that tour was not as luxurious as previous tours (1-2* vs 4*).
Is this what people are using as tipping guidelines for these kinds of tours now? Is is supposed to be even HIGHER if it is a luxury tour?

ira

Hi N,

$10/day pp comes out to be $100/day for a group of 10. Even for a 14-hr day that's an additional $7/hr.

I assume that the agency pays the guides something. (Say $8/hr)

What particular skills do these folks have that makes them worth more than $15/hr?

cmt

I've been on quite a few small group walking/hiking tours. I think all or almost all of them have given suggested guidelines for tips somewhere in their pre-trip materials. (Did you do a thorough search? sometimes this info is not organized and put in the place where you'd expect to find it.) Generally I have found the guides so good and put so much care and energy into their work that I have tipped on the higher end of the suggested range, and thought that the guides had really earned it. But once, I did not tip at all, because I really objected to some things the guides had done and had a strong feeling that they had cut corners in order to spend less of their discretionary fund and keep the balance.

Christina

I think you should go with what you think is fair and reasonable and not listen to other people telling you what to do. I've never been on that kind of tour, so don't know the comparison, though -- I've been on a couple, but the guides were only for limited time periods when you were seeing specific sites. I didn't go on tours where I was with the tour group that much all day, I booked more independent tours.

$10 per day sounds reasonble to me, that seems like a considerable amount of money multiplied by all the members in the group. I don't think figuring guide tips as a percentage of the cost of the tour makes any sense (not to me, anyway), as the cost is largely hotels, transportation, etc. which has nothing to do with a guide's time and services.

nibblette

Thanks all!
cmt, some of the tours don't print a guideline, just say that tips are appreciated by the guides. But one tour suggest 15% of the tour price! That would have come out to almost $300 for 2 guides! That's why I was trying to get a feel of usual tips.
I've done internet searches, too, but haven't come up with very much.

Ira, don't know how much the guides are paid. Am told some companies pay guides a per day amount which usually comes out below minimum wage by US/Western Europe standards. So the tips make up a large part of their income.
Have had guides customize trips on the spot based on the group's interests, without extra charge, even when it involved a charge item. They have often done things not required, e.g. take people early/late to trains/airports (not part of the tour package). Many of the guides have expertise or degrees in other fields, e.g., history, which makes the tours infinitely more interesting. Helps me see places in a whole different light when given info that isn't usually found in guidebooks/tourist stuff.

Was trying to figure out how much cash to get from ATM for tips. Often times the trip ends some place where there isn't a convenient ATM. I once had to do a CC cash advance (costly) from the hotel because I hadn't planned properly (thought there would be an ATM nearby!). I don't use cash very much, whether traveling or at home (CC for me).

Thanks again. I think I'll just stick to my old guideline. Just didn't want to undertip if guidelines had changed.

crefloors

If there are no guidlines I think you just have to go with how you feel the tour and service was. I have no idea how much these guides are paid, but I'll bet not much. I was watching a program on PBS last year, and it was where the CEOs of companies spent a week working "down in the trenches" with their employees. This program featured Carnival Cruise Lines. If someone had told me this, and I had not heard it with my own ears on that program, I NEVER would have believed it. The people who work on Carnival Cruise Lines..the bartendars, the waiters, the maids etc. make a base "wsge" of 48.00 per month. That means that their entire income is derived from gratuities. Of course the CEO, and he has a point, says that this makes his people provide better service. They also work long long hours, almost never get off the ship when in port...hmmm..so much for glamour and far away places. So, my guess would be that most tour directors don't make much money. I'm sure their day to day expenses are covered, like food and lodging, but I'll bet the big part of their income is from the tips.

nytraveler

Ira -

What do these guides do to be worth $15 an hour?

First - I don;t know how much they get from their employers but am sure it's minimal - and may not be even $8 per hour.

As for a total of $15 - when the counter kids at MickeyD's get $10-11 per hour - I think anyone who does more than shove burgers across a counter - often with a snarl - deserves way more than $15 per hour.

djkbooks

All in all tips/gratuities are OPTIONAL and are, indeed, left to you to "express your appreciation".

worldinabag

Hi

There is a long discussion about the issue of tipping - http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...renO&fid=2

ira

Hi nib,

>Many of the guides have expertise or degrees in other fields, e.g., history...,<

In which case $15/hr is a very good wage.

flanneruk

You cannot make any kind of generalisation about this.

Carnival Cruises does indeed pay near-zero wages. But niblette's question has nothing to do with that kind of company.

One business I use reasonably frequently that's exactly the kind niblette's talking about, ATG Oxford (and I can't praise it loudly enough), states itself to be a no-tipping organisation and makes it clear in its literature that tips aren't expected. Nor could I imagine tipping a French or Italian ski instructor from the local official ski school.

As a rule, businesses like this in Europe and Australasia are operated by enthusiasts who recruit talented people and have to pay accordingly. They make their policy on tipping clear - and usually aren't in the business of rewarding staff for selling mediocre add-ons to inflate their income. So it makes sense to ask the company for advice on in Europe and Australasia.

Others on this board no doubt understand other cultures better. But this is one niche in the world tourism industry that hasn't been universally corrupted yet by the Carnival philosophy.

Nikki

The point made by crefloors explains the thing that made me very uncomfortable on the one and only cruise I have taken. There is a large staff dedicated to providing a high degree of personal service to people on whose whim the staff is dependent for income. This creates a type of relationship between the passengers and the crew which felt very strange to me.