The REAL "Issue" About 'Dressing to Fit In'
Jun 19th, 2008, 05:05 AM
#1
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The REAL "Issue" About 'Dressing to Fit In'
I know it's been done to death, but....just reading a comment on the "Harry's Bar" thread about being sure to "pack my baseball cap" and so forth.
Does anyone in the US actually EXPECT visitors from other countries to "dress to fit in" and if they don't, are we stupid enough to kick them out/turn them away?
Obviously not so if one DOES wear a baseball cap in Paris so what?
Makes me wonder how self-confident some of the people who ask this perverbial "fitiing in" actually are much less how soon they'll be in small claims court with the neighbors again.
Does anyone in the US actually EXPECT visitors from other countries to "dress to fit in" and if they don't, are we stupid enough to kick them out/turn them away?
Obviously not so if one DOES wear a baseball cap in Paris so what?
Makes me wonder how self-confident some of the people who ask this perverbial "fitiing in" actually are much less how soon they'll be in small claims court with the neighbors again.
Jun 19th, 2008, 05:41 AM
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It does seem to be a peculiarly American obsesssion. I had never even heard the subject discussed prior to coming across this site.
The rest of us just wear what we want, and never care about "fitting in"
The rest of us just wear what we want, and never care about "fitting in"
Jun 19th, 2008, 05:46 AM
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The answer is black, from head to toe and including all underwear. Black is it. No problem, wear black and you will NEVER be mistaken for a Yank tourist, even when you start to speak. Remember, black and nothing but black at all times and in all places.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
Jun 19th, 2008, 06:55 AM
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As a woman who usually travels solo, one important issue for me about "fitting in" relates to security. In my experience, the more I can look like a local, the less vulnerable I feel to pickpockets or purse snatchers.
I travel often to Italy; I love it there. I carry the same purse I use at home, I wear a lot of black (partly because it travels well but it also blends in) Generally, I dress the way I would in a North American city -- for example, comfortable but not sloppy sandals. No athletic shoes. No bulky backpacks.
Does it work? I'd like to think so. I haven't been robbed or pestered. On the other hand, someone recently told me that when his cousin from Milan was in Rome, someone tried to pick her pocket near the Capitoline Hill. So, being a relative local isn't always real protection!
I'm not saying that trying to blend in is a perfect system. But I don't think that it's a sign of weakness, either.
I travel often to Italy; I love it there. I carry the same purse I use at home, I wear a lot of black (partly because it travels well but it also blends in) Generally, I dress the way I would in a North American city -- for example, comfortable but not sloppy sandals. No athletic shoes. No bulky backpacks.
Does it work? I'd like to think so. I haven't been robbed or pestered. On the other hand, someone recently told me that when his cousin from Milan was in Rome, someone tried to pick her pocket near the Capitoline Hill. So, being a relative local isn't always real protection!
I'm not saying that trying to blend in is a perfect system. But I don't think that it's a sign of weakness, either.
Jun 19th, 2008, 07:16 AM
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One more time.
It isn't a matter of fitting in.
It isn't a matter of thinking you will be taken for a European/Asian/American.
It is a matter of dressing appropriately for the circumstances.
When I lived in Boston, I was perfectly happy to go to the local sub shop or Chinese restaurant for lunch in shorts and sandals. If I wanted to eat lunch at Locke-Ober's, I would have gone home and put on long trousers and shoes and almost certainly a jacket because the people eating lunch at Locke-Ober's are business people, dressed for business.
If I were in Paris, I would go sightseeing, shopping at a street market, or having lunch in a sidewalk cafe in casual clothing. If I went to dinner at a place that had white tablecloths, I wouldn't. Would I try to look French? Of course not, but I would try to dress as an American as formally as the locals are dressing in their own way.
Americans laugh at Germans in particular who wear dark socks with sandals. Sometimes it is very sensible to wear socks with sandals, especially fisherman's sandals, and dark socks are less conspicuous than light. But we don't do that here, so someone who does it is going to be regarded as odd and probably laughed at.
When I was living in England as a child, some East European refugee men wore beach/casual suits that looked like pajamas. People laughed at them, though at home they would have been in the height of fashion.
For almost all tourist locations anywhere in the world, it does not much matter what you wear as long as you stick to the tourist path, but once you want to go beyond this, it does. If you never want to go beyond the tourist path, wear whatever is comfortable and pleases you.
If you want to go beyond the tourist path, accomodate yourself to local custom, not by dressing like the locals, but by dressing at a level that would be considered appropriate by locals. Going topless on the beach here in the US is a perfect example. It may be comfortable, but it isn't the local custom.
It isn't a matter of fitting in.
It isn't a matter of thinking you will be taken for a European/Asian/American.
It is a matter of dressing appropriately for the circumstances.
When I lived in Boston, I was perfectly happy to go to the local sub shop or Chinese restaurant for lunch in shorts and sandals. If I wanted to eat lunch at Locke-Ober's, I would have gone home and put on long trousers and shoes and almost certainly a jacket because the people eating lunch at Locke-Ober's are business people, dressed for business.
If I were in Paris, I would go sightseeing, shopping at a street market, or having lunch in a sidewalk cafe in casual clothing. If I went to dinner at a place that had white tablecloths, I wouldn't. Would I try to look French? Of course not, but I would try to dress as an American as formally as the locals are dressing in their own way.
Americans laugh at Germans in particular who wear dark socks with sandals. Sometimes it is very sensible to wear socks with sandals, especially fisherman's sandals, and dark socks are less conspicuous than light. But we don't do that here, so someone who does it is going to be regarded as odd and probably laughed at.
When I was living in England as a child, some East European refugee men wore beach/casual suits that looked like pajamas. People laughed at them, though at home they would have been in the height of fashion.
For almost all tourist locations anywhere in the world, it does not much matter what you wear as long as you stick to the tourist path, but once you want to go beyond this, it does. If you never want to go beyond the tourist path, wear whatever is comfortable and pleases you.
If you want to go beyond the tourist path, accomodate yourself to local custom, not by dressing like the locals, but by dressing at a level that would be considered appropriate by locals. Going topless on the beach here in the US is a perfect example. It may be comfortable, but it isn't the local custom.
Jun 19th, 2008, 07:36 AM
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I think other posters have it right that we want to wear appropriate clothing that fits with the custom. I wouldn't wear a cocktail dress to Sunday School and I don't want to commit any similar fashion faux pas while a visitor anywhere, at home or abroad. I think we've all experienced the discomfort of arriving at a function to find we are way overdressed or underdressed. I think travelers are just trying to avoid similar feelings.
Jun 19th, 2008, 07:36 AM
#15
Dukey, is your standard of dress to wear anything as long as the people where you are going don't kick you out or run you away? Or is it to wear what you think is appropriate for the situation?
Would you be kicked out for wearing a business suit at the beach? No, but you wouldn't want to. Would you be run out of town for wearing shorts to a formal restaurant? No, but if everyone else was wearing something less casual, you might not want to be dressed in shorts.
For those who have not gone to Europe, and who have no context to make the judgments for themselves, and who turn to this forum to learn what is appropriate, these questions make perfect sense. It does not reflect on their confidence, only on their experience.
Would you be kicked out for wearing a business suit at the beach? No, but you wouldn't want to. Would you be run out of town for wearing shorts to a formal restaurant? No, but if everyone else was wearing something less casual, you might not want to be dressed in shorts.
For those who have not gone to Europe, and who have no context to make the judgments for themselves, and who turn to this forum to learn what is appropriate, these questions make perfect sense. It does not reflect on their confidence, only on their experience.
Jun 19th, 2008, 07:48 AM
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Ackislander and Misspie,
Very sensible posts.
Thank you.
PS I wear black at home , I always have, it is my " base" color( yes, I wear other colors too) . It travels well, so I have no intention of altering my choices.I am not trying to " look" like anything but me. Won't see anyone in Europe twice so I could care less, but, I do think "fitting" in or " fitting in the situation" are important , for safety reasons, and for cultural reasons.
I also bring runners, cause dany they are the comfiest.. even though I also bring the expensive all leather shoes made in Europe,, etc..LOL
Very sensible posts.
Thank you.
PS I wear black at home , I always have, it is my " base" color( yes, I wear other colors too) . It travels well, so I have no intention of altering my choices.I am not trying to " look" like anything but me. Won't see anyone in Europe twice so I could care less, but, I do think "fitting" in or " fitting in the situation" are important , for safety reasons, and for cultural reasons.
I also bring runners, cause dany they are the comfiest.. even though I also bring the expensive all leather shoes made in Europe,, etc..LOL
Jun 19th, 2008, 08:03 AM
#19
And while I'm thinking of it...
Whenever we have these discussions, there are people who say nobody will notice what you wear. And there are people who say, "Anyone wearing white sneakers (or athletic clothes, or shorts in the city, or shirts with logos) looks ridiculous." So obviously there are people who do notice. And, amazingly, sometimes these seemingly contradictory comments are made by the same people.
My friend spent several months doing research in Russia some years ago, in the winter, and she brought her down coat. Perfectly stylish and acceptable in the US. She says that she had comments everywhere she went. And a woman came up to her on the street and said, "You'll never get a husband dressed in a coat like that!"
Whenever we have these discussions, there are people who say nobody will notice what you wear. And there are people who say, "Anyone wearing white sneakers (or athletic clothes, or shorts in the city, or shirts with logos) looks ridiculous." So obviously there are people who do notice. And, amazingly, sometimes these seemingly contradictory comments are made by the same people.
My friend spent several months doing research in Russia some years ago, in the winter, and she brought her down coat. Perfectly stylish and acceptable in the US. She says that she had comments everywhere she went. And a woman came up to her on the street and said, "You'll never get a husband dressed in a coat like that!"
Jun 19th, 2008, 08:38 AM
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I do think it is a matter of "fitting in" many times, there are countless posts on here about folks bragging about how someone supposedly mistook them for a local because they were asked the time of day or something. They get a thrill out of that, I admit it is kind of odd -- I wonder if foreigners where I live would brag to their friends if someone asked them the time.
Okay, last weekend I was waiting for the metro where I live (Wash DC) and overheard a couple with a 20ish son waiting on the quay also, and they were French (speaking in French). They were clearly tourists and were wearing clothes fairly similar to what Am. tourists might wear with a couple exceptions. The woman had on capris, some solid color T-shirt, small day pack, and white athletic shoes (no visible socks) -- however, these were Adidas, the low sneaker-type style, not the big, honking white Nike things many Ameticans wear. The kid was dressed like any sloppy 20something in black jeans, crummy Tshirt, etc. (and was eating something very smelly which disgusted me, even though food is not allowed in the metro--neither he nor his parents cared about the rules). The man was a little different because he had regular long slacks/trousers on (something nondescript), NOT some type of cargo pants/shorts, etc., like many American men wear in hot weather. He had some nondescript walking shoes on.
I think for someone who has never traveled before outside their home country, it is understandable that you may not know what people wear elsewhere and you just don't want to look really odd. I sure wouldn't, either, I don't feel comfortable if I'm dressed really differently than others in certain situations. Part of that is appropriateness, but much of it is not, it's just custom and style. So if you've never traveled before, I can understand asking this question.
But part of it is due to some people not having much experience with the world, not even viewing other country's newspapers or watching the BBC news, etc., as if you did that, you would kind of see that folks in Western Europe don't dress so differently. Reading foreign fashion magazines is kind of a different level, and not really the same as the man in the street. So I do think people who ask this question are not really that self-confident, or they wouldn't be asking it. If you have traveled at all, you kind of know what people wear doesn't vary as much as you'd think almost anywhere in the world now.
Okay, last weekend I was waiting for the metro where I live (Wash DC) and overheard a couple with a 20ish son waiting on the quay also, and they were French (speaking in French). They were clearly tourists and were wearing clothes fairly similar to what Am. tourists might wear with a couple exceptions. The woman had on capris, some solid color T-shirt, small day pack, and white athletic shoes (no visible socks) -- however, these were Adidas, the low sneaker-type style, not the big, honking white Nike things many Ameticans wear. The kid was dressed like any sloppy 20something in black jeans, crummy Tshirt, etc. (and was eating something very smelly which disgusted me, even though food is not allowed in the metro--neither he nor his parents cared about the rules). The man was a little different because he had regular long slacks/trousers on (something nondescript), NOT some type of cargo pants/shorts, etc., like many American men wear in hot weather. He had some nondescript walking shoes on.
I think for someone who has never traveled before outside their home country, it is understandable that you may not know what people wear elsewhere and you just don't want to look really odd. I sure wouldn't, either, I don't feel comfortable if I'm dressed really differently than others in certain situations. Part of that is appropriateness, but much of it is not, it's just custom and style. So if you've never traveled before, I can understand asking this question.
But part of it is due to some people not having much experience with the world, not even viewing other country's newspapers or watching the BBC news, etc., as if you did that, you would kind of see that folks in Western Europe don't dress so differently. Reading foreign fashion magazines is kind of a different level, and not really the same as the man in the street. So I do think people who ask this question are not really that self-confident, or they wouldn't be asking it. If you have traveled at all, you kind of know what people wear doesn't vary as much as you'd think almost anywhere in the world now.
