how do you know they were not French - Canadians?

I don't care about fitting in - I care about how I look. I'm not some kind of diva, but I always dress nicely and I always have my hair done nicely. My friends are like me, the people I work with are like me - and we're all European. If I'm going somewhere special, I like to make an effort. It's for me....not to fit in, not to impress, not to look like something I'm not - because this is me, this is how I am.....and I'm not alone in Europe. You will find that many people dress up rather than down. I was up the alps a few weeks ago and had to wear walking trousers and boots during the day....it was such a pleasure for me to get out of them and get into a dress and a pair of heels for dinner every so often. I could not begin to imagine dressing like this if I wasn't half way up a mountain.

Ackislander,

You expressed my thoughts perfectly.

I also believe in the benefits of making an effort to blend in. Part of what makes travel interesting, beyond the sites, is the culture. And, to me, adjusting to the culture is just part of the fun of a trip.

I was in West Africe..no hiding that I'm a tourist there. But learning bits of the language, understanding what not to do in their culture, and making a little effort to blend in, just normal for me.

And, maybe, I might get treated a little bit better because of how I look. Call me a dreamer...

Maybe the "French tourists" were actually scam artists getting ready to double team yoou and get your fanny pack!!

Lawchick, I feel sort of the same way. My goal when traveling abroad is to appear as a nicely dressed American woman. Probably no disguising that I'm American, but nothing wrong with being nicely dressed either.

The "rest of us" talk about how "they" dress in NYC. But of course, the average foreign tourist hears me (another tourist) speaking English in NYC, so they assume I'm a New Yorker. So whatever I wear, that is what foreign tourists think New Yorkers wear. Of course, this could be happening to us in Europe all the time. The French person we observe in Paris may be there on a day trip from a rural part of France and may not be dressed like Parisians dress at all...but how are we to know?

While in Paris we went into a post office to cash some checks. Two of us were dressed neatly and apropriately and had no problem cashing our checks. The 3rd person in the group was not dressed so well and they would not cash her checks until we went over and talked with the clerk. We are all older ladies - the only reason must have been the way she was dressed. It does make a difference. You are made up of what you eat and also you are judged by how you look. Take the advice or leave it.

Along the same line as what bratsandbeer posted, while traveling in Maine, we were in line to buy something behind about the worst dressed couple I've ever seen....the guy had on a white undershirt with the sleeves cut out, which fit quite tightly over his more than ample belly, etc. You get the idea. They were buying things at a rather expensive shop, so they weren't dressed so badly due to poverty. ANYWAY, they were telling the clerk that they were so glad to be back in the US because the *$%#@ Canadians had treated them so badly. I couldn't help but think that they may have been treated badly because they looked like they were about to mow the lawn instead of traveling in a foreign country.

Canadians...rude? Impossible

Lawchick wrote "It's for me....not to fit in, not to impress, not to look like something I'm not - because this is me, this is how I am.....and I'm"

How nice for you.

"It isn't a matter of fitting in, it is a matter of dressing appropriately for the circumstances."

Since appropriateness implies a standard to which one should conform, and conformity is just another word for 'fitting in', it seems that it is, after all, a question of 'fitting in'.

You simply dress for the occasion as you would in New York, Boston, Paris, San Francisco and other major cities. In the villages everyone dresses casual. As many have said they will not look at you.
I saw quite a few parisiens dressed very outre.

re: <<wear all black and get mistaken for a New Yorker>>

Am I reverse-colorblind or something? Eight years of living and working here, and I still don't know what people mean when they say everyone here wears all black. WHERE are you seeing that sea of black? I see every garish color combination on the streets, and they can't all be tourists!

re: <<nobody will notice what you wear>>

How many of you like to take photos of beautiful landmark buildings when you travel? Which of the following tourists distract less from the photo-- these http://images36.fotki.com/v1179/phot...11B2806-vi.jpg or these http://picasaweb.google.com/chance17...11350615509682 ?

Christina, see a cultural misunderstanding has occured.

First those tourists you saw were in fact likely french Canadians, we ( Canadians) have no hang up about eating in public, and there are no rules here about it being a no no on the metro, or buses, so , if those tourists did not speak, or possibly read english, how would they know they were breaking a rule?? You saw the boys parents didn't seem to care, why would they when they were oblivious to the fault. I bet we ALL do something when we are in other countries that the locals think is a bit tacky or rude.
How many of you drink your Starbucks when you march down the road,, in Paris drinking coffee is still considered something one should do sitting down.

So its not just clothes that set us apart.

Missypie,, that man you described is exactly what an "ugly" looks like,,, the undershirt and ripped out armholes just made me gag thinking about it,,

I approach the question a bit differently: I appreciate the chance to enter other countries, I repect their history and achievements. I dress and behave in whatever way I think will convey my repect for their culture. I see myself as a guest and recognize their right to tell me I am not permitted in their country.

<i>But of course, the average foreign tourist hears me (another tourist) speaking English in NYC, so they assume I'm a New Yorker.</i>

Nah. They can still tell your not a New Yorker.

<i>You simply dress for the occasion as you would in New York, Boston, Paris, San Francisco and other major cities.</i>

Not sure about this. Boston is a pretty casual city - there are only maybe 2 or 3 restaurants in the city where I would not feel comfortable in jeans - Au'jourdhui (sp?) and L'Espalier come to mind. Grill 23 says that jeans aren't allowed, but last time I was there, roughly 1/3 of the restaurant was wearing them. And only a handful of the financial types wear suits - even much of Fidelity is business casual. San Francisco is even more casual, in my experience, with suits being very, very rare, even at work. New York can be a bit more formal, but I still usually wear jeans when going out.

Paris, on the other hand, is really quite formal during the workday, so jeans will be a dead giveaway that you are a tourist (or at least not working). I still usually wear jeans. And I am still almost always first addressed in French. I must look like an unemployed local! How Bohemian!

I just don't get the point of trying to &quot;fit in&quot;. Sure, be respectful of things like covering arms in mosques, covering your head in a synagouge, and (for the German woman I saw yesterday in Koh Samui) not going topless in places where it is deemed inappropriate. But, Western Europe is largely devoid of such religion-inspired prohibitions, so why worry about whether your tan pants should be black? Or that a fedora looks more &quot;local&quot; than a baseball hat? Waste of time, and chances are that you will get it wrong anyway.

To my way of thinking, there's no occasion happening on the streets of London as I pass by that's any different than the occasion when I walk down a street in my hometown. No more need to impress a stranger than a neighbor. For me, the occasion is about what I am doing - something I think is right for an art museum, regardless of home or away, something decent for a nice dinner, or for sitting in a park. Basically, for Europe, I pull the same clothes out of the closet I wear all the time anyway.

In my case, I don't wear a ball cap anyway as I'm not balding. Always thought I'd feel like I'd failed to grow up if I went around in shorts all the time, so I don't wear them here or on trips. I figured grown managed up until the 60's to wear pants anyway and so can I. I don't think the same of others though - just what I like and don't like on me. Honestly, I have no fashion sense... so that helps. Black khakis; greyish, burgundy or mid-green or black whatever button up shirt. My timberlines that sort of look like decent black shoes until you look at them from the side... they have sort of a boot sole. I go for a hike, come back and clean them up... go to dinner. It's not classy, but hey, it's honest and they're still in good shape. Besides, the things are indestructable and have walked me around 5 continents so far. Since I only take the one pair of shoes, they're it.

Now when I go someplace really hot (tropical or desert places), then I do sort of take &quot;speciality&quot; clothes, since I don't live in one of those climates. I change up to thin, long sleeve shirts the air can blow through but keeps the sun off, as locals do as a practicality, and light colored pants to reflect heat. Although wearing a dark shirt for going out for the night is a good idea for someplace like Central America in the hot part of the year (hides the fact I'm sweating like a beer mug). Learned that from a show about Latin dancers, haha

I don't see what the fuss is about. It's not so much wanting to 'fit in' as not wanting to 'stand out' as a tourist - especially if your wanderings take you out of normal touristed areas (which of course for real travellers, they would).

Sacc had it right. &quot;Not standing out&quot; is more about security than anything else. We've had people ask us for directions in all sorts of places that are foreign to us. We don't get a &quot;thrill&quot; or want to &quot;brag about it&quot; as one poster suggested, but we do get some satisfaction from knowing that we are not standing out as prime targets for pickpockets, scam artists, and the like.

Entertaining posts...thank you! Few humans pay any attention to what others wear or look like. Tourists rarely travel in 'high culture' venues. They are on the streets. Locals on the streets are coming and going from such activities. Athletes wear specialized gear. 'Buffaloes' try to imitate them. Men wear baseball or billed caps for two reasons. They cover baldness and are an inexpensive sun shield. Maybe the strangest sartorial fashion is the buying and wearing t-shirts emblazoned with a Coca-Cola ad. Marketing ploys have inveigled other humans to become free billboards. The tuxedo was invented to standardize dress at semi-formal events. Uniforms denote occupations. So what is a tourist uniform?

cigalechanta wrote: &quot;wear all black and get mistaken for a New Yorker&quot;

Or, as has happened to me more than once, a catholic priest.

Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies.

I've been traveling to Europe rather regularly for almost 40 years now.

As to 'security&quot; and being pickpocketed, that has happened to be once, on the Barcelona Metro where I was wearing the usual Rafael Nadal &quot;shorts&quot; along with a LOT of other Barcelona men and the typical shirt which I had BOUGHT at El Corte Engles; I even had on very typical european shoes.

My conclusion is that I was targeted because I wasn't paying attention and not because of how I did or didn't look.

All of this discussion is more food for thought (or is it &quot;amusement&quot;?) anyway, what is far more disturbing to me is the Fodorite poster comment some months ago, and I quote:
&quot;I don't like large hotels; I feel intimidated walking through large hotel lobbies.&quot;

Perhaps we can save THAT one for another day.

Cheers, all.