The REAL "Issue" About 'Dressing to Fit In'
Jun 20th, 2008 | 03:29 AM
#42
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,641
Likes: 0
This "wear black" mantra is silly. Most New Yorkers (and Europeans) do not dress like crows on their way to a funeral. 90% of my wardrobe is from European brand "bridge" collections and there's not much black in it.
As for being asked for directions, it really has MUCH more to do with looking approachable than with looking like a local. People who are lost enough to need assistance from strangers usually ask the first kind-looking face they see, no matter where that face comes from.
(Also you can dress like a technicolor scarecrow and people will still assume you're a local if you happen to be walking a dog.)
As for being asked for directions, it really has MUCH more to do with looking approachable than with looking like a local. People who are lost enough to need assistance from strangers usually ask the first kind-looking face they see, no matter where that face comes from.
(Also you can dress like a technicolor scarecrow and people will still assume you're a local if you happen to be walking a dog.)
Jun 20th, 2008 | 03:40 AM
#43
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,247
Likes: 0
<i>Author: weber6560
Date: 06/19/2008, 11:02 pm
I approach the question a bit differently: I appreciate the chance to enter other countries, I repect their history and achievements. I dress and behave in whatever way I think will convey my repect for their culture. I see myself as a guest and recognize their right to tell me I am not permitted in their country.</i>
This seems to be a typical American point of view, probably based on the fact that your country is that huge that you can travel so far without even coming near a border.
In Europe, crossing borders and being on "foreign territory" (with different languages, cultures, food) is such a mundane occurrence that it is hardly worth mentioning.
(Fortunately,) No Belgian or Dutch who is going to Germany to do some shopping is probably even thinking about it when crossing the border. Ditto anyone from Southwestern Germany traveling 70 minutes by train to Paris for a day trip.
IMO, the best way "to fit in" is to learn the foreign language, to be able to communicate, at least on a basic level.
This will probably open more doors than the right pair of shoes.
Date: 06/19/2008, 11:02 pm
I approach the question a bit differently: I appreciate the chance to enter other countries, I repect their history and achievements. I dress and behave in whatever way I think will convey my repect for their culture. I see myself as a guest and recognize their right to tell me I am not permitted in their country.</i>
This seems to be a typical American point of view, probably based on the fact that your country is that huge that you can travel so far without even coming near a border.
In Europe, crossing borders and being on "foreign territory" (with different languages, cultures, food) is such a mundane occurrence that it is hardly worth mentioning.
(Fortunately,) No Belgian or Dutch who is going to Germany to do some shopping is probably even thinking about it when crossing the border. Ditto anyone from Southwestern Germany traveling 70 minutes by train to Paris for a day trip.
IMO, the best way "to fit in" is to learn the foreign language, to be able to communicate, at least on a basic level.
This will probably open more doors than the right pair of shoes.
Jun 20th, 2008 | 04:24 AM
#44
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,623
Likes: 0
<b> "Also you can dress like a technicolor scarecrow and people will still assume you're a local if you happen to be walking a dog." </b>
BTilke, that is brilliant observation about dog-walking. The best answer I've heard yet in threads like these!
Unfortunately, says Sue with a sigh, it won't end the argument.
We'd just get questions like:
<b> "What breed of dog is most appropriate for [Paris] dog-walking these days?" </b>
I can imagine the replies:
"Don't be seen walking a Dalmatian. All that garish white, and as for those loud spots......"
"I saw yet another multibreed yesterday. People, multibreeds are fine for home, but take it from someone who has done a LOT of travelling, you won't get good service in a restaurant unless you are seen with a purebred.... "
(From irate flier): "Some people are soooooo selfish. Here I was, trying to find room for my toy poodle in the overhead, but it was nigh impossible thanks to all the Great Danes jammed in there......"
BTilke, that is brilliant observation about dog-walking. The best answer I've heard yet in threads like these!
Unfortunately, says Sue with a sigh, it won't end the argument.
We'd just get questions like:
<b> "What breed of dog is most appropriate for [Paris] dog-walking these days?" </b>
I can imagine the replies:
"Don't be seen walking a Dalmatian. All that garish white, and as for those loud spots......"
"I saw yet another multibreed yesterday. People, multibreeds are fine for home, but take it from someone who has done a LOT of travelling, you won't get good service in a restaurant unless you are seen with a purebred.... "
(From irate flier): "Some people are soooooo selfish. Here I was, trying to find room for my toy poodle in the overhead, but it was nigh impossible thanks to all the Great Danes jammed in there......"
Jun 20th, 2008 | 05:51 AM
#46
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,641
Likes: 0
Sue,
We spend most of our time in Paris in the 16th and although it's sometimes called the "poodle arrondissement", the breeds we see most often are: French bulldogs (number one choice), teckels (wirehaired dachsunds), pugs, West Highland Whites (despite the claims that Europeans prefer black, the Westie's black cousin, the Scottish terrier, is a rarity), English cockers--none as pretty as ours, of course ;-) labs, and, oddly, Bernese Mountain Dogs. Apparently the preferred BCBG big dog is the BMD. Not the Briard or Bouvier des Flandres as one might think.
Alas, in Brussels, we encounter too many aggressive pit bulls. But in Woluwe St. Pierre, the dog preference falls along the same line as the 16th in Paris.
In Austria, a lot more German Shepherds and Rottweilers. And in northern Germany, Muensterlanders (one of my favorite breeds, both varieties).
And as a general note: even dog-owning locals can still be clueless if their head is off in the clouds. While out walking my cocker in Brussels along the Ave. Georges Henri, someone once came up and asked me in Dutch where the Avenue Brand Whitlock was (a block away). I was wool gathering and asked them to please ask the question with the street's name in French.
They looked at me like I was crazy because, of course, the name is exactly the same in Dutch, French, English, German and for all I know, Swahili.
We spend most of our time in Paris in the 16th and although it's sometimes called the "poodle arrondissement", the breeds we see most often are: French bulldogs (number one choice), teckels (wirehaired dachsunds), pugs, West Highland Whites (despite the claims that Europeans prefer black, the Westie's black cousin, the Scottish terrier, is a rarity), English cockers--none as pretty as ours, of course ;-) labs, and, oddly, Bernese Mountain Dogs. Apparently the preferred BCBG big dog is the BMD. Not the Briard or Bouvier des Flandres as one might think.
Alas, in Brussels, we encounter too many aggressive pit bulls. But in Woluwe St. Pierre, the dog preference falls along the same line as the 16th in Paris.
In Austria, a lot more German Shepherds and Rottweilers. And in northern Germany, Muensterlanders (one of my favorite breeds, both varieties).
And as a general note: even dog-owning locals can still be clueless if their head is off in the clouds. While out walking my cocker in Brussels along the Ave. Georges Henri, someone once came up and asked me in Dutch where the Avenue Brand Whitlock was (a block away). I was wool gathering and asked them to please ask the question with the street's name in French.
They looked at me like I was crazy because, of course, the name is exactly the same in Dutch, French, English, German and for all I know, Swahili.
Jun 20th, 2008 | 07:23 AM
#47
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,449
Likes: 0
BTilke - I totally agree with both your observations.
People ask directions of people who don't look like they're in a hurry and who, as you say, look approachable. Tourists often fit both categories. Sometimes I actually approach someone I think is probably a tourist because I figure they're dealing with the same issues I am, only hopefully slightly less confused at the moment.
And actually I think the "not in a hurry" component is one reason people approach dog-walkers too. Most people when walking their dogs are not striding down the street like they're late to an important meeting. I do notice when I walk my dog in touristy areas of San Francisco I get approached a lot.
DH had to make a very hurried work-related trip to Amsterdam a few months ago (a place he'd never been) and did not have time to prepare at all. Didn't know a word of Dutch, didn't have a map, hadn't read anything about the city, didn't know how the public transport worked, etc. He got along famously just by asking passers-by for directions and for help in using the trams, phones, and so on. (BTW he feels Amsterdamers were amazingly friendly and helpful.) Out of curiosity I asked him how he chose who to approach on the street and he said he just tried to pick someone who "didn't look like they were too busy or hurried". He didn't mention anything about assessing their clothing. ;->
People ask directions of people who don't look like they're in a hurry and who, as you say, look approachable. Tourists often fit both categories. Sometimes I actually approach someone I think is probably a tourist because I figure they're dealing with the same issues I am, only hopefully slightly less confused at the moment.
And actually I think the "not in a hurry" component is one reason people approach dog-walkers too. Most people when walking their dogs are not striding down the street like they're late to an important meeting. I do notice when I walk my dog in touristy areas of San Francisco I get approached a lot.
DH had to make a very hurried work-related trip to Amsterdam a few months ago (a place he'd never been) and did not have time to prepare at all. Didn't know a word of Dutch, didn't have a map, hadn't read anything about the city, didn't know how the public transport worked, etc. He got along famously just by asking passers-by for directions and for help in using the trams, phones, and so on. (BTW he feels Amsterdamers were amazingly friendly and helpful.) Out of curiosity I asked him how he chose who to approach on the street and he said he just tried to pick someone who "didn't look like they were too busy or hurried". He didn't mention anything about assessing their clothing. ;->
Jul 12th, 2008 | 06:22 PM
#51
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Being from NY, I generally wear black all the time anyway. That being said, when travelling I will often wear clothes that don't look "touristy".
I know that when I'm in NYC everyday, you can generally tell who the tourists are by how they are dressed. And they are hounded by sightseeing ticket sales people and people handing out flyers, etc. Those who look like they are locals are not pestered.
That is why I generally wear dresses or skirts and comfortable shoes and not sneakers when I am in another country. They may know I'm a tourist when I open my mouth, but if I can blend in a bit, I can avoid some of the haranguing.
If you're comfortable in jeans and sneakers, that's your prerogative. But don't fault someone for wanting to dress in a way that is less "obvious".
I know that when I'm in NYC everyday, you can generally tell who the tourists are by how they are dressed. And they are hounded by sightseeing ticket sales people and people handing out flyers, etc. Those who look like they are locals are not pestered.
That is why I generally wear dresses or skirts and comfortable shoes and not sneakers when I am in another country. They may know I'm a tourist when I open my mouth, but if I can blend in a bit, I can avoid some of the haranguing.
If you're comfortable in jeans and sneakers, that's your prerogative. But don't fault someone for wanting to dress in a way that is less "obvious".
Jul 12th, 2008 | 07:09 PM
#52
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,420
Likes: 0
That reminds me.
Found this in last months Sky Magazine on Delta and thought of this board immediately and forgot to see if it's been posted.
Here you go. Dressing tips!
http://thesartorialist.blogspot.com/
Found this in last months Sky Magazine on Delta and thought of this board immediately and forgot to see if it's been posted.
Here you go. Dressing tips!
http://thesartorialist.blogspot.com/
Jul 12th, 2008 | 08:06 PM
#54
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
I haven't read this whole thread, so I might be repeating something, but i think there have been a number of studies done showing that people ask directions of tall people.
I'm tall, but I also find Italians asking me directions whenever I'm returning from the vegetable market, my artichokes and beet greens sticking out of my tote.
I still spend a lot of time in New York, and the only time I see touts chasing after people who look like tourists are in touristy places. If you're in Piazza San Marco or in St. Peter's Square (how did it ever get that name?), you're going to look like a tourist no matter what you wear because --
Guess what?
Only tourists are there.
Wear what makes you comfortable, however you define that.
I'm tall, but I also find Italians asking me directions whenever I'm returning from the vegetable market, my artichokes and beet greens sticking out of my tote.
I still spend a lot of time in New York, and the only time I see touts chasing after people who look like tourists are in touristy places. If you're in Piazza San Marco or in St. Peter's Square (how did it ever get that name?), you're going to look like a tourist no matter what you wear because --
Guess what?
Only tourists are there.
Wear what makes you comfortable, however you define that.
Jul 13th, 2008 | 01:28 AM
#58
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,682
Likes: 0
We were asked directions (by Italians and French) several times on our recent trip to Italy and France - we were thrilled!! Couldn't help but we were thrilled anyway.
I did spot several middle aged, American men wearing those dreadful camel coloured "paparrazi" jackets, the ones covered in little pockets. Hmmm, straight to the divorce court for my man if he ever brought one of those home.
I did spot several middle aged, American men wearing those dreadful camel coloured "paparrazi" jackets, the ones covered in little pockets. Hmmm, straight to the divorce court for my man if he ever brought one of those home.
Jul 13th, 2008 | 08:19 AM
#60
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 0
I thought all the posts about "wear black -- all black" were tongue in cheek. If not, how depressing.
<<We don't get a "thrill" or want to "brag about it" as one poster suggested>>
The previous comment was a reference to some posts on another "what to wear" thread. A couple of people wrote something like "I was wearing all black and people asked directions in French (or Italian)" so assumed they were taken for natives because of their clothing.
I agree with others, when I need to ask directions anywhere I look for someone who looks approachable.
<<We don't get a "thrill" or want to "brag about it" as one poster suggested>>
The previous comment was a reference to some posts on another "what to wear" thread. A couple of people wrote something like "I was wearing all black and people asked directions in French (or Italian)" so assumed they were taken for natives because of their clothing.
I agree with others, when I need to ask directions anywhere I look for someone who looks approachable.
