Hi everyone --

My mom and I are trying to plan a trip for sometime in October (or Nov as we're flexible). She has been to Italy on organized tours two times and I have never been. I am NOT a fan of tours, per say, and so I am trying to plan an itinerary for us to "talk her into it" basically.

We are open as to the # of days in each city and her request was that we visit the big 3 (Rome, Florence, Venice).Neither one of us wants to drive so we would like to take trains between the cities.

What I want to find is somewhere else spectacular to visit. When I say spectacular, I don't mean hustling and bustling... I'm thinking it would be really nice to spend two nights somewhere along the path between cities (or even off the path!)-- perhaps a not so touristy medievel town or??? that would let us experience the real Italy and not just the tourist Italy. Does that make sense???

We are limited by budget in so much as I am trying to make this as economical as possible so that I can "show" her that we can do it on our own without a tour group.

So, if you could go anywhere and it fit with the big 3 somehow, where would you go? Quaint and small is good. Relaxing is good. We could do one night somewhere and one night somewhere else or just two nights in one place or???? TOTALLY OPEN and FLEXIBLE.

Thank you so much for your suggestions!
Reed

You might check out slowtrav.com for some ideas. How much time do you have there?

Sounds like you're putting together a great plan. My husband and I just got back from 10 days there, mostly off the beaten path in Northern Italy. Check out my trip report, "Vendors in Venice, Valpolicella in Verona, and a Clandenstine MaiTai Sighting..." for some ideas near Venice that are all available by train or bus. Let me know if you have more questions about some of those places.

Have you checked into Siena? It's a logical stopover between Rome and Florence, although still a little touristy. Tuscany abounds with choices that fit your requirements, although not all are available by public transportation.

Good luck!

Hi Reed,

Since you don't want a car, I suggest:

Fly into Venice and out of Rome (or vv).

Venice 4 days

Train to Florence 5 days - daytrip to Siena (daytrip to Lucca and Pisa)

Train to Orvieto (hill town) - overnight

Train to Rome 4 days - daytrip to Ostia Antica (archaeological site).

For Venice lodgings, these are moderate priced places that have been recommended here:

http://alcampaniel.tripod.com/venezia/

http://www.hotelbernardi.com/en/hotel.html

For Florence, I can highly recommend
www.bedinflorence.it

You might find my trip report helpful:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34451044

I just returned last evening from 12 days in Venice, Florence and Rome. We flew into Zurich, spent one day, then trained between cities, staying 3 nights in each. I do NOT recommend this itinerary, as it was exhausting! The cities are crowded beyond imaginaton, and all the sightseeing is tiring. I suggest flying into Rome, spending two nights and seeing the sites, then going to the coast or Tuscany to stay at a villa where you can relax and enjoy the beautiful scenery.

We spent time in those cities on our honeymoon. The highligh of our trip was the 2 nights we stayed in Assisi in Umbria. We went from Venice, to Florence, to Assisi and then to Rome. Perfect trip. We stayed at the Hotel Umbra in Assisi and it was AMAZING. Rooftop decks, totally economical, and right in the middle of town. My hubby cant wait to return!

We took a trip to the "Big 3" two years ago with roughly the following ininerary. We flew into Venice and out of Rome and used trains to get from one city to the other. We rented a car in Florence for the three days we spent in the Tuscan countryside. We spent 4 days in Venice, 4 days in Florence, 3 in the country and 5 in Rome. It was an ideal trip, not tiring or strenuous at all. We had 16 days. If you have fewer, you can cut each of the cities by one day and spend only one day in a small town as Ira suggests above.

<<How much time do you have there?>>

Really, however much we need dependent upon keeping costs under control.

I want to stay as long as possible. My mom is always worried that the longer we stay, the longer it will add up with costs which is of course, true. But neither one of us are foodies (we're arties) and so I figure while a lot of people spend tons on food, we will eat practically anything if it means having more time to go through museums, look at architecture, etc. I am serious.... I could eat a piece of pizza or a simple salad and be happier than a pig on a poke if it meant another day to wander through the museums or even just the streets for that matter!

But, I have to prove this by actually making an itinerary, finding hotels that are well located but cheap (hopefully not just a dream!) and then showing it to my mom who is basically the one with the purse srtings (this is a gift trip to me bottom line). I know it can be done! I put an independent trip together for us two years ago to England and France and we had way more fun (and less money out) than had we gone with a package. Plus, we could do ANYTHING we wanted which was the biggest benefit. Did I mention I don't like bus tours and regimented touring in general? Yes, I think I did.

But I digress.

Thank you everyone so much for your wonderful comments. You are so appreciated in this corner of my world.

P.S. I am also going to try and wrangle a few days in Paris out of this trip. Mom is all for this... We love that city and we're of the ilk 'Well, we're already there.' I don't know if this will happen (I might decide in the end that it's best to go back another time -- boo hoo -- and just concentrate on Italy but boy oh boy will it be hard to know I'm THAT close to lovely Paris and not going. For that I will shed a tear or two. Certainly.

Reed

Hi reed,

Explain to your Mom that the longer you stay the lower the daily cost, since the airfare is fixed.

The B&B Peterson (www.bedinflorence.it) is only 40E/nite for a single.

They might have a twin-bedded double for about 50E with a shared bathroom.

I can't help but reply because you have my son's name. But bear in mind, I can only pass along hotel recommendations from my own research for our first trip to Italy, not from my experience.

I'm not sure of your budget, but I corresponded with the owner of Il Bargellino, Carmel, in Florence until we decided not to stay in Florence this trip. She is an American married to an Italian. She was a delight in helping us with our planning of a Florence visit. The rates were 85 euro/double room. Web site is http://www.ilbargellino.com/rates.htm.

We are staying at La Calcina in Venice (http://www.lacalcina.com.) We have booked a double with terrace at 125 euros and a single for 80 euros. We are staying there in August, so I'm not sure if the rates will be the same in October. The hotel was recommended by Karen Brown, and has a nice canal-side restaurant and a roof top terrace.

In Rome, we are splurging more on our hotel, but we had considered Relais Banchi Vechi in Campo dei Fiori at 130 euros (http://www.banchivecchi115.com/inglese/)

Hi Reed,
The above post mentioned La Calcina in Venice. We stayed there in October a few years ago and it was a wonderful choice. I'd rate it as a top bargain hotel. The location was great, too; it's on the Giudecca (sp?) as opposed to the Grand Canal, and there is a vaporetto stop right in front. Or if you walk a short way, you get to the Accademia vaporetto stop on the Grand Canal. The Accademia museum is close by, as are a number of wonderful restaurants. Your mother will be glad she didn't get booked in a crowded bland tourist hotel ;-) We just love Venice, and October is a great time to go. The prices will probably be a little lower, too. The weather can be chilly at night in northern Italy, but should be fine during the day. Just bring jackets. It's a magical time of year. You are right to not take a tour. You can do your itinerary easily on your own. (We flew into Florence and out of Venice -- we flew Lufthansa in order to do this, which meant a change of planes in Munich, but that went well. It was easier to fly into and out of those smaller airports than the bigger ones like Rome and Milan.) Good luck.

Ira makes an excellent point about cost per day being lower the longer your stay. That doesn't even consider the fact that lodging cost (per day) can decrease the longer you stay somewhere. A great resource not yet mentioned is:

http://www.eurocheapo.com/

These are all very central, carefully selected & reviewed inexpensive lodgings throughout Europe. Venice, Florence & Rome are three of the cities they have hotel reviews for.

Another thing you can do is rent an apartment or villa for a week. You may be able to save some money and have access to a kitchen for your own Italian style breakfasts and picnics. There are so many great bakeries and shops to pick up great picnic foods!!! You may want to do this in the Florence area as there are many close cities for interesting day trips. If you buy a rail pass, you may save a significant amount of money if you take the train alot.

Some great cities to visit from Florence as a home base are San Giminagno, Lucca, Siena and a day along the Chianti road (if you enjoy wines!! - I highly recommend that if you do!!!). There are a number of other accessible cities from the Florence area...others can give you additional recommendations.

One other thing...if you choose an apartment, it may be less expensive outside a major city. Usually accomodations in Florence, Venice and Rome are more expensive than smaller cities such as Orvieto, San Giminagno, etc...

If the apartment idea is not for you, if you are looking for information about many individual hotels, I recommend www.tripadvisor.com. You can find a lot of valuable info about the hotels and other's experiences staying at them.

If your mom likes the structure of having things planned (ex. tickets and a tour of the Vatican) before you get there, you can arrange these things often through your hotels prior to leaving. If you settle on some hotels, you can email them in advance for assistance.

My personal recommendation is to go on your own instead of a tour. I went on a tour for my first trip to Europe (in my late 20's). It was exhausting for me and I was young at the time and I also workout all the time!! We were up and at breakfast almost every morning by 7am. We were trapped on a bus for HOURS each day and our hotels were often NOT in a location in the city center. Some tours will offer better hotel locations, but if you are on a budget, budget tours will offer cheaper chain hotels often further from the city center.

Since that trip, I have travelled to Europe several times and done it completely on my own using the internet to plan. We went to Italy last year and planned the trip on our own. It was great...every hotel was great and I would do everything the same way. We had no disappointments at all. There are so many GREAT web sites now that if you do your homework, you will do fine!

I hope we have all helped you sell your Mom on your own custom itinerary. If you know her interests....plan it just for her...what mother can so no to something so thoughtful???

Good luck!!

Hi again everyone --

Just thought I'd update you a bit on the evolving itinerary and let you know that this board (and the one at Slow Talk) has been invaluable to me.

From a mom who didn't want to be gone more than 8 days, we now have an itinerary that is 3 weeks long!! Quite the accomplishment if I do say so myself! It is "almost" my dream trip. I say almost because there are three things that we won't have the time for that I will have to back to see some day (Capri, the Dolomites and the Lake district). But how can I complain??

Here's the way it stands:

October departure 22 nights

Rome - 5 nights
Banazzo Spoleta - 3 nights
Haven't Decided - 2 nights
Florence - 7 nights
Venice - 5 nights

SPOLETA -- We found an absolutely wonderful place here in a little town right outside Spoleta... it's a 16th c convent that's been converted into two really lovely apartments and we rented the one for 3 days. This will be the relaxing part of our trip, sitting on our own terrace, making meals in the kitchen with the wood burning stove, staring off into the landscape of Asissi in the distance, riding bikes through the olive groves. I cannot wait for this experience. It's also very close to several places for a day trip to be decided.

Florence -- We rented one of the San Lorenzo apartments from Gianna for a week. I have read so many glowing reviews on the location and quality of this apartment that I can't wait to get there and have my own little piece of Florence all to myself. This is a dream -- living in an apartment in the middle of art heaven.

For Rome and Venice we will either rent something short term or go the hotel route. I have a hotel booked in Venice )the Alvagon, but I can only find a couple of reviews (both good) and that worries me somehow. Rome has not been taken care of yet and I'm hoping to do this part sort of last minute -- my spontaneous Rome adventure. Laterooms.com has been very good to me in other European cities so I'm hoping for the same in Rome. I have Piazza Navona/Spanish Steps taste and outskirts budget which is the problem!

Anyway, thank you all so much for your help and suggestions. I hope you can help fill in those two nights. We will have seen quite a bit around Spoleta by then (Orvieto, Siena, San G. etc.) so I'm hoping to find a long train trip somewhere interesting or for that matter, even fly. Maybe I'll see some of my dream sites after all.

Reed181,
FWIW, the Piazza Navona area and the Spanish Steps area are as different as night and day. IMHO, the historical center (piazza Navona, Campo de Fiori, Pantheon) is much better. The Spanish Steps neighborhood is more modern, but has lots of designer clothing shops (if that's a priority).