I know that this is not exactly a travel question, but it IS kind of travel-related. I hope that some of you are like-minded, so I beg your indulgence! Those who aren't - just skip this one!

For various reasons, my current career, although financially rewarding, no longer makes sense. If I want to be honest with myself, it never really did, but the international part was great, and when I could be entrepreneurial, it was wonderful. It's in healthcare administration, and I have an MBA plus a post-graduate healthcare administration.

Increasingly, I'm wanting to take more time to travel - my son is of school age, and it would be great if he and I could explore Europe and I could send him to winter and/or summer schools that teach him languages. Of course, that takes time - and money! And while my husband has a good job, we couldn't sustain life and travel if I didn't work...especially for the kind of travel I'm thinking about!

Given that many of you seem to be of similar ilk, I wonder if your careers reflect a desire for more time flexibility. One career choice that I feel would be super rewarding and provide flexibility (although not money!!) is teaching. I wanted to know - are there many of you on the board who are teachers? If so, have you found that you could use your career choice to be more flexible, and perhaps even to teach abroad during holidays (most notably summer). I am thinking about elementary and secondary teaching, because I know even less about college level teaching - I always assumed a PhD was a given (which I don't have) but I understand that it's not always necessary. But I also understand that those teachers/instructors get paid next to nothing...even less than school teachers.

Anyhow....just throwing it out there...also anyone else change careers mid-career and moved to a career more suitable with your desired life?? I wouldn't do it JUST for the flexibility - I have taught in seminars and find it very rewarding. But the flexibility/time is definitely a plus.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Hi gam,

I spent 30 years in the professor business.

My SIL is a teacher.

My next door neighbor is a teacher.

>One career choice that I feel would be super rewarding and provide flexibility (although not money!!) is teaching.<

It is not something that I would recommend at below the community college level.

I'm not sure that I would recommend it at the college level, either.

At what level are you considering teaching?

Are you being realistic? It sounds as though you'd like to teach to students in the summer, when as a teacher you'd have the opportunity to travel (and teach). But your prospective customers (the kids who would have the summer off) be interested in NOT being taught for the summer...that's why they look forward to summer vacation!
I suggest more self-examination, less dreaming. We'd all love to be paid $10K per month at a job which required us to eat gougere and drink bourdeau and write an evaluation of same (500 words or less)once a month. AINT GONNA HAPPEN!

Ira,

Thank you much for the response. I am torn about the level. I've only lectured adults, so that would be within my comfort zone. For kids, I've always been intimidated by them - especially American kids because they are so informal in the classroom. I can see myself teaching up to 10-year olds, but definitely not past that. Teenagers terrify me! I also fear overly aggressive inappropriate parents, but not as much as 15-year olds.

I've heard that at school level, there is a big difference in compensation between public and private schools - that public schools pay "much" better. I wonder why.

My concern at the university-level, assuming I could even teach, is that I would always be treated as a 2nd class citizen because I'm not on the PhD career track. I'm not advanced enough in my career that I can be a subject matter expert in a first-rate university - at least, I don't think I am. As an occasional guest lecturer sure, but not as a regular gig.

I've seriously considered the PhD, but again, I hear that the process of securing and maintaining professorships is really cutthroat and political at the university level. But I'm getting my info from pretty ambitious people whose goals include tenure at the most prestigious universities. I'm realistic enough to know that I am past that track.

If not college, community college, or below, then what level would you recommend?

Thanks, Ira.

Tomboy, although the fantasy is appealing, I'm actually not that much of a dreamer (anymore..there was a time..) What I'm thinking is a permanent change of career to teaching, knowing the financial limitations of such a career. I would do it because I found it rewarding by itself (or I couldn't sustain it) but also because it would offer me the kind of schedule for travel that I seek. I know lots of people who do it for the winter/summers off with the kids, but I wondered if people on this board also did it for the ability to indulge in my other love - travel. The reason why I want my son included in the mix is a) because I can't quite leave him behind, and b) I grew up speaking 4 languages, and the best way to learn is to actually be in a local country learning it...plus a new culture.

Within the new career, though, I could see teaching over the summer at a summer level. For instance, if my son goes to Geneva for a summer camp program in French, perhaps I could find something that would teach business people - or even at the summer camp level - something that would keep me busy. ALthough $10K sounds great, I'd be thrilled if the fee covered our food for the time there!

Are you a teacher?

When people ask me what two things I like best about my job I always reply "July and August". And I'm not kidding, I happen to love the job itself, but having the summer off is absolutely the best part. (for travel!)

You keep mentioning "flexibility". Well, teaching does give more time off than other jobs, but not flexibility. You can travel when school is not in session - and that's it. I was just asked by a friend to go to Barcelona with her in January. Well I'm dying to go there but I teach in January so it's not an option. On the other hand, I can mangage 8-10 days in March and those two great summer months. (Plus Christmas, except that family obligations prevent me from traveling at that time). So - lots of time off yes, felxibilty no.

Re where you could teach. Most public schools require you to be teacher certified so you'd have to go back to school at least for that. Community colleges on the other hand, usually only require a master's degree - generally in the field you are teaching in, but not necessarily. Depends on how hard up they are for teachers. The pay is about that of public school teachers, certainly not that of 4 year college professors. You could start out by seeing if you could teach as an "adjunct" - which means one or two courses, paid by the course. If you liked it and they liked you then you could apply for a tenure tract position. But be warned the pay for adjuncts is really bad. On the plus side, you can try it out that way. I got into it that way. I'm an RN and was teaching medical terminology as well as working as a hospital nurse, and then was offered a tenure track nursing faculty position.

I think you are right to coniser it, but do research all your options. Good luck

Hi g,

In order to teach in public schools you need appropriate certification. Without going back to school, you won't get it.

Private schools are much more flexible in hiring, but I doubt that you will be hired to teach at the lower grades - maybe science and math if you have appropriate courses.

It is unlikely that you will be hired by 4-yr colleges and universities. They already have a large pool of academic gypsies (ie, people who are qualified, but can't find work) from which to choose.

Community colleges with programs in healthcare admin will pay you by the course, and not very well.

I think that they currently consider 5 courses per day to be full time. From my own experience that comes to about 60 hr/week.

You might want to consider going on a part-time basis with your current employer or opening your own business.

I'm sorry to be such a wet blanket, but with the current political climate, in which no one is willing to vote to increase taxes, schools are hurting for money and are doing everything they can to reduce personnel costs.

The people who already have jobs are, of course, doing what they can to keep them.

Isabel,

Great point re: flexibility! Believe it or not, I hadn't really thought of that. Now, I have 4 weeks off, but I can take them whenever. Of course, my son's school schedule will soon preclude any time off while he's in school. He's in PK right now, and I'm basically pulling him out most of December to travel. But I would have to hope that our respective spring breaks coincide if I'm teaching while he's going to school.

I had heard about the poor pay at the CC level - didn't realize it was just for adjuncts. Thanks, it's encouraging to know that full-time instructors don't suffer quite as much. I still think it's nuts that the teaching profession is paid so little here (in many European countries, it's much better!) but that's a story for a different time.

Have you ever thought of teaching abroad in the summer? Or is that your free travel time? There are countries who would love an R.N. professional who can teach...Turkey comes to mind, and certainly the UAE, although for the latter, Jul/Aug not the best time for many reasons...

Ira,

No need to be sorry - I need facts and it helps!! It sounds to me as though the best way to go is public school teaching if I want to be full-time. I've written to the State (PA) about certification and it seems pretty straightforward and quick. Now it's just making a decision.

Ach, lots to think about.....Have you ever taught abroad? You seem to have the travel bug big time.

Have you thought about tutoring?

I recently started tutoring. It's not that I really need the money, and I'm only working with two students sporadically. But if a full-time position won't lead to that much cash anyway, then tutoring can be an attractive option.

However it could be a challenge to drum up enough business to make a decent living.

A friend suggested that I think about freelance consulting, but I've not tried it.

The tutoring, though, for me is pretty easy, as the courses I'm dealing with are pretty trivial.

Greetings.

As usual, Ira has given you some great advice. (even for a Francofile)

Both my SO and I are in education. I teach at the college level and my wife in K-12. We both love to travel, but are limited mostly to the summer months and other short breaks. Usually these are during the peak travel seasons and are more expensive and crowded. This limits the amount of travel we realistically can do together. Financial restraints are real in educational careers. The benefits are great, but we have to reach retirement before they start kicking in. I'm worried that by the time I get to that age, travel will be much more difficult (always worrying about where the toilets are, etc).

Teaching can also be hard, stressful, underpaid and underappreciated work. Many times I've thought just the reverse, switch to private industry where the market rewards hard work.

Hi gambader,

I'm coming out of a period of silence here to add my 2cents.

I am an adjunct instructor in a small 2-year college (I have an MA). It fits me nicely because I'm retired and live off my pension; I use the teaching money just for travel (I always thank my students for contributing to my travel fund!). I like it because the classes are small, I can set my own schedule (I've refused some classes for a trip), I don't need medical/dental coverage, and I never have to go to meetings.

But, as some others here have said, the money is not so good. It's enough to send me to Europe twice a year for about 10 days each time, staying in four-star hotels. It won't send two people to Europe, and it really won't send two people to Europe for months at a time.

I've tried to get a job teaching in Switzerland and haven't had any luck. To teach below college level, you need that teaching certificate plus 3-5 years of experience. To teach at the college level -- well, I'm not sure as I haven't even gotten any replies! You'd probably have to have that PhD plus a few languages (I've noodled around the biographies of faculty of a few European colleges to see their credentials, and usually they have one degree from a US college and one from a European college -- either undergrad or grad). They all have two or three languages at the fluent level.

So, essentially, it'll take you several years to get the credentials to teach in Europe. To teach in the US, you'll lose in money what you gain in flexibility. I don't see a way to get flexibility AND money. Maybe travel writing? Working in the travel industry (airline or tour company)?

Perhaps the best thing would be to just work hard for 5-10 years, then retire!!

Happy to say hi!

s

ps,

As a teacher, you also get the benefits of students like the one who wrote that Hawthorne was a great "oar castrator . . ."

I almost knocked myself out laughing so hard.

s

According to many financial advisors-being a teacher or working for the government are they only "sure" ways of guaranteeing a pension. I know in our town a friend of ours who taught 8th grade gym for 29 years got up to $97,000 with a bachelors degree and now he receives $80,000 a year with full medical and dental. There is actually a high school history teacher in the suburb over from us who makes $197,000 a year while the principal makes $325,000 (these are actually on the internet salary pages???).I think that the weekends off,holidays and summers with only working 180 days a year are terrific for a career change-good luck!

I think I can speak for college teaching.
Afterall, I did that for the last 33 years of my working life. (Not the first 11, however.(

1. Without the terminal degree, you will have a hard time finding permanent, full time employment in a major institution of higher education.

2. With a terminal degree, you might find a full time position as a temporary, non-tenure track faculty member, but only if there is high demand for qualified people in that area.

3. To succeed as a full-blown faculty member in a tenure track position, you must be able to produce quality research. This requirement means publishing in well known academic journals and directing graduate students.

There are opportunities for adjunct teachers, but these positions are usually a one course per semester type of arrangement and are not a full time job.

The type of idea I read you advancing is the same type of idea that department heads see in the form of 100 or more applications per year. Most of these draw little more than a polite rejection, if they get any response at all.

Most tenure track positions at major universities are filled by two types of candidates. If the applicant is graduating or has graduated from a major Ph. D. producing institution, he or she has a good chance PROVIDED he or she shows potential for research. The other type of candidate for a tenure track position at a major university is a faculty member at a smaller college who somehow has established a good publication record.

Once in a tenure track position at a major university, there is unrelenting pressure to publish. Otherwise, tenure is unlikely to be granted.

In fields like history, psychology and English, there are many Ph. D. holders who are doing something else.

I might add that my average work week was such that I had little time free until the break between the summer term and the start of the fall term.
I did usually get away from the prep time during Christmas, but that was often spent working on a book or other publication.

It sounds good, but can you imagine the headaches caused by coordinating the labs for a 330 person lecture section?
I was responsible for hiring the lab instructors, setting the curriculum, making sure that the pertinent classroom milestones were met, that homework papers were graded with consistency and fairness, and I had to prepare the lab exams as well as the lecture section exams.

The main difference I saw between my corporate days and my faculty days was that I was more my own boss as a faculty member. The time span of control was longer, and within the scope of my classes, I was fully responsible for what went on each day.

I might add that the teaching abroad positions were the most coveted faculty assignments, and there was keen competition to obtain one of them.

Gambader,

I am smack dab in the middle of the situation you describe. At 40 yrs old, I am currently in school getting my teaching certification for Illinois (and loving it!). I've worked in the corporate world since graduating college in the late 80s. When my company was bought and moved to another state 18 months ago, I knew I didn't want to spend the next 20-25 years doing the same thing.

I will be certified to teach Secondary English (6-12). Here in the Chicagoland area, that's about the least employable position I could be pursuing, but I've always been an optimist. The hardest part of this whole process for me has been the doubts about employability and my ability to handle 100-ish adolescents a day, but I'm choosing to forge ahead anyway.

As for salary, flexibility, etc; as a teacher I will be starting at roughly $18K less than I earned when I made the decision to switch careers. That doesn't bother me, as we're a two-income household and I tell myself that if other families can make it on one income, then we should be fine.

I have two pre-teen boys, so handling kids over 10 really doesn't intimidate me, though it is disheartening to hear from other teachers how disinterested and unmotivated some kids can be these days. As for the flexibility and time off, that is the #1 perk that keeps me going! It all comes down to the following question: Can I see myself still teaching when I'm 55-60? Big fat Yes. Could I see myself in my old job until then? No way!

If you do decide to pursue teaching, I wish you luck!

Oh, and Swandav2000, Ha! to your story about Hawthorne. It reminded me of when I was in high school. During a social studies quiz, a guy behind me asked me for the answer to a question and I whispered the answer, euthanasia. (Don't judge too harshly - I was a hormonal teenager and this was a boy talking to me!)

After the quiz was over, we all passed our papers up one person and graded them, so I got his. He had spelled the answer "youth in Asia"!

Hi dutyfree
>There is actually a high school history teacher in the suburb over from us who makes $197,000 a year while the principal makes $325,000 (these are actually on the internet salary pages???).<

Mind giving us the URL?

That high school prinicpal is getting not much less than the Chancellor of the University System of Maryland, where I used to work.

I am a high school teacher who makes a blistering $65,000 a year and some change. I am absolutely obsessed with travelling in Europe so for me it means teaching night school, substituting, taking on extra assignments, teaching 120%, driving a 10-year old car and caring not a thing about expensive jewelry. I live in the burbs in Northern California near Sacramento. I feel that my students benefit greatly from my chattering about travelling and all the places I have been lucky enough to go. My husband is a teacher and so is my mother, father, sister, aunt, uncle, and great aunt. It is obviously in my DNA. If you are thinking about teaching as a career, you must be realistic about how hard the work is to provide you with the time off that is truly wonderful. I personally feel that teaching high school is exhilarating fun, but not everyone feels that way. Also, most school districts have eaten away at that summer vacation...the world thinks we get those "3 months off in the summer" but we're down to about 8 weeks in my little corner. I would say ask yourself if you can do the job for the job, not for what the job can get you. See if you can "job shadow" for a day so you can get a feel for what it is you are thinking about changing your life for.

Not to mention that teachers only work 180 days a year! That's the number of days the kids are in school, which is not at all the same thing.