Loacker

Wow talk about drama queenism.

In Whathello's opinion, an unsuspecting tourist who rents an "illegal" short-term apartment equals a thief and a pickpocketer.

Whathello

Learn to read Loacer

I was talking about people like apersuader who knowingly break the laws.

Yes people like that equal thieves and in my mind worse than pickpocketers.

apersuader65

Whathello, can you explain how my renting an apartment I am violating the law? I do not owe taxes for my rental, it is included in the price I pay. If I go to a restaurant, eat a meal (which includes the 21% VAT) and the restaurant does not pay their collections to the government, I am also liable?

You started this with aiding and abetting tax evasion, now I'm directly violating?

You also state "I just don't care for people breaking the laws and being accomplices of thieves. Everybody complains about pickpockets . . ." Using your convoluted logic, if I knowing walk around with a backpack showing a lot of valuables and taking the risk myself that I may suffer a loss, I am also guilty of pick-pocketing?

Paris has a problem with its apartment owners. It is Paris' issue to deal with internally. If they choose to pass a law that makes me responsible to pay the taxes for my stay directly to the mairie, then I am responsible. Engaging in the stream of commerce that includes unscrupulous and law violators makes me guilty, then I also need to quit taking my prescription medicines too I suppose?

Whathello

Nope. What you say that you don't care if you breAk the law by going into illegal apartments.

Instead of your example another one : I but marijuana in the states. I break the law. What happens ? I tell the cops I don t care and it is their problem to make it so that nobody sells it ?

You are on this forum quite often enough to know that most rentals in Paris are illegal but you will rent it. And tell people to do it ?

You also but copies of Louis Vuitton bags and say you don't care if they are illegal ?

Do it mate. Don't tell others to do it. And face it : you break the law knowingly.
Ergo you are a thief.

Same as people buying stuff made by children in Pakistan : they say they don't and don't care it is up to officials to track the manufacturers who employ kids.

But you don't care and I am beating a dead horse. Maybe others understand.

I am even tired of answering.

Envierges

A comparison that might indicate something . . . your judgement as to what.

"On Monday, the city sent an 1,800 strong “incivility brigade” into the streets to try to curb the uncouth behaviour of locals and tourists alike."

"The city of Paris actually now has a vacation rental task force that numbers 25 people as of this year, 2016."

fuzzbucket

The "incivility brigade" is a group of young people who have been instructed to ask people to pipe down, not pee in the streets and toss garbage in Canal Saint Martin.

The agents who work for the task force are professionals whose sworn duty is to investigate internet listings, attempt to contact the property owners, physically visit the apartments in question, fill out reams of legal documents and submit them to the City.

Not even a close comparison.

Envierges

Good to know. Thank you. But how does the below quote from the Telegraph work with what you said.

"this time the officers will be in uniform, armed with tear gas and batons. Those caught fouling or littering can expect fines of €68"

We're arming "young people" with tear gas and batons and giving them fining power?

fuzzbucket

I do believe that these young people - who were chosen precisely because they fit the profile of other young people causing "incivilities" - are wearing some sort of uniform and allowed to issue fines to those who break the rules.

I don't believe that they are armed with batons and tear gas, because they are not the Police. The Telegraph is often given to hyperbole.

Whathello

On this :

A team of 25 qualified people to check on 40 000 apartments sounds quite in line with 1800 unqualified guys checking 2 millions inhabitants.

Now, on a funny note, I created a thread mirroring my last comments on US forum.
I asked :
If a US guy coming to Europe finds ok to break the law and rent illegal apartment, can I as an European go to US and break the law and buying illegal stuff.
I added a lot of humour and let understand to take my posts with a grain of salt.
The thread as deleted within the hour.

janisj

Whathello: >>The thread as deleted within the hour.<<

I didn't see it but Fodors new owners want to keep the travel boards about travel and seem to be clamping down on frivolous threads that are really just being provocative -- maybe they though your thread was 'off topic'.

WoinParis

I guess it was... but not more than here.
One rule here, another rule there.

janisj

>>I guess it was... but not more than here.
One rule here, another rule there.<<

Not a different rule that I can see. I don't think the moderators look at every thread/post but when a title draws attention -- well, it draws attention

kerouac

The majority of the employees of the "incivility brigade" have been municipal employees for years. We just used to call them meter maids.

Belinda

I will answer your actual question with a personal example. I rented a lovely apartment in the 8eme, just adjacent to Parc Monceau, a couple of months ago. The neighborhood was too quiet for me. Very residential and all families. No cafes and shops for a couple/few blocks. I spent one night there and moved back to my usual apartment in the 18eme, with loads of cafes, shops, etc. I was so much happier.

Stroll around the streets on google street view and see if you think the neighborhood is what you're looking for. My daughters stayed on the Ile once and didn't particularly like it.

apersuader65

Again, on this thread and numerous others on this subject, folks who rent illegal apartments in Paris are called thieves and are breaking the law by you Whathello.

Again, I'll ask, what law am I breaking. Renting an apartment is NOT illegal for the renter. It may be by the owner, but NOT the renter.

As for absurd examples to try to clarify, try to make the discussion apples to apples.

Say you come to the US and buy a counterfeit purse from a vendor on the street corner in NYC. Clearly, selling counterfeit purses is illegal. Clearly, the buyer has broken NO law.

http://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer...resources.html

This is so even if you know it is fake. The only way you'd violate the law is if you bought it to sell.

In order to be a thief, you must break a law.

fuzzbucket

Apples and oranges, apartments and bags...

You can be assessed a huge fine and your bag can be confiscated if it is discovered at the border, airport, etc. Sounds to me like this is illegal in Paris, anyway.

The tourist who rents, knowing that apartments are illegal, has to deal with his conscience - or not - and deal with the problem of a possible last-minute cancellation.

The agency which rents, knowing that the apartments they represent are illegal, is breaking no law.

The property owner, knowing that his apartment is being rented illegally, is breaking the law - and is the only one who will suffer consequences.

WoinParis

Again, I'll ask, what law am I breaking. Renting an apartment is NOT illegal for the renter. It may be by the owner, but NOT the renter.

That was the whole point. You have no problem with that. Good for you. You are encouraging an illegal system, profiting from it and you want to smell like a rose.
Well. You don't.

janisj

>>Renting an apartment is NOT illegal for the renter. It may be by the owner, but NOT the renter.<<

But IF the apartment is illegal -- you have no recourse if things go pear shaped -- and more and more will now that the city is paying attention.

Plus, do you really want to contribute to what is essentially a black market industry?

PalenQ

zillions of folks rent Paris apartments and have no problems and airbnb's Paris places are the most for the group and airbnb has made some kind of agreement with Paris not long ago.

I suppose there is a miniscule chance of a problem but so far there have been few it seems. I'm not telling you what to do but I'd rent an apartment if thru a legitimate agency like airbnb in a heart beat rather than play into the cartel of Paris hotels IMO - not sure but it smacks of that to me.

Lots of Cassandras here.

janisj

>> I'm not telling you what to do but I'd rent an apartment if thru a legitimate agency like airbnb . . .<<

airbnb ain't an 'agency' - it is merely a listing site like vrbo.

>> airbnb has made some kind of agreement with Paris not long ago.<<

And they have done nothing to ensure that any of their listings are approved/legal.