waring

Nonsensible?

slangevar

I'm with you danon... I speak much better Spanish than French, so it's nice to think that I didn't look like a total idiot the two or three times I said "si" instead of "oui."

NeoPatrick

Going from a few weeks or a month in Italy to the same time in France, si and oui start becoming automatic -- like pardon and scusi. Is there anyone who doesn't go from country to country without screwing up once in a while?

Anyway the question has certainly been answered for this non French speaking inquisitor. Now I'm anxious to see the film again and see if those quick interchanges were in fact all asked in the "negative" -- I suspect they were.

Mathieu

I too remember it taught (drummed, really) to me in school in the way Carlux and Flanner's first post suggests. You use 'Si' when responding affirmatively to a negatively phrased question.

E.g. "You haven't been carrying on with my wife now, have you ?" or " You don't want this last bit of chocolate cake, do you ?" or "That wasn't you drunk and passed out by the pool, was it?" Get it ?

kerouac

But the answer to two of those questions is "non"!

PalenqueBob

Si not Quais?

NeoPatrick

kerouac, how do you know???? LOL

Mathieu

Exactly, Kerouac ! It depends how honest you want to be !!

Mathieu

Kerouac, I meant to add : What, you don't like chocolate cake ?

Askar

For those of you who speak German, "Si!" = "Doch!"

hanl

In some cases it can be quite important to get the si-oui distinction right. If you reply "oui" to a negative question or statement it will usually be assumed that you are agreeing. Which can make for a misunderstanding, if you should have said "si".

If I reply "Oui" to the question "Tu n'aimes pas les tomates, n'est-ce pas?", the person asking the question will assume I don't like tomatoes.

Nikki

I believe I learned that in Canadian French, si is not used. Is that true?

ira

>Sorry Ira "Fumer est défendu?" is not negative like "puis-je fumer" then it is oui or non.

Thank you, coco.

Carlux

I haven't heard that si is not used in Canada - in fact my example earlier comes from 'Grammaire Francaise' by Jacqueline Ollivier, published in Canada, and described as a grammar book for 'le milieu canadien.' Actually an excellent book, as it's in French, but designed for English speakers, so that some points, like the use of 'en' are explained to English speakers.

So - in French, if you ask someone how many apples they have, the answer would be 'j'en ai deux. Literally, 'I have two of them', unlike English, where we would just say 'I have two.'

francegirl

Definitely, absoultely, no doubt about it, "si" is a positive answer to a negative question, that is, a question posited in the negative. Si and oui are not interchangeable in any way.

Vous ne parlez pas anglais??

Mais si, monsieur, je parle anglais!

elsiejune

Kerouac, As someone whose goal it is to "penser en francais" and speak fluently, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment:

"For those wondering if their French is really fluent, spontaneously saying 'si' to a negative question is an excellent test of whether or not the language has really been absorbed."

"Vous parlez très bien le français. Ne me dites pas que vous êtes américain."

"Mais si!"
Thanks for your insight. E.J.

Nikki

Elsiejune, I share your goal and I'd like to think that is true, but I do say si and I don't consider myself fluent. For me, the obstacle is insufficient vocabulary. I feel like I'm speaking like a four year old child.

Kerouac, that's why your comment on my trip report about babes lost in the woods makes me smile.

elsiejune

Nikki: I didn't mean to imply that "si/oui" is the ultimate test, just that it's one indication of someone's ease in speaking French. As Kerouac mentions, it's the ability to react/speak/think spontaneously that indicates progress. I couldn't agree with you more about vocabulary. It really is the number one area where I fall down in my French, too. I don't think one can really become fluent without spending significant time living in country, which is something I wasn't able to do in my student days. Alors, maybe in my next life. EJ

BTilke

Go sit in a nontouristy French (or French/Belgian) cafe for a while on a Saturday afternoon after shopping and listen to two good (female) French friends catching each other up on their lives and those of their friends/family/lovers/coworkers. Sooner or later, you are bound to come across this exchange:

...Non, c'est pas vrai!
Mais si!!!

Mais non, c'est pas possible!
Mais si!!!

Mais c'est incroyable!
Oui, bien sur...

NeoPatrick

Interesting that nearly all the posts explaining this use of si, most often use "mais si". In the film it was never that -- but just a simple "si". Thought I'd point that out.