Hi tower ,nice to see your post also.
I once tried signing into piscasweb but was "going around in circles! "

Been to Stockholm twice both times in the middle of summer.

Like that "ladies of Sweden" picture.


Hope you are keeping well. I have always enjoyed you postings.

Oops ! sorry kovsie for hijacking the thread.

Percy: you are most welcome - I enjoy the diversion!
tower: I have already paged though your pictures while trying to work out what Stockholm is about. I also love the 'ladies of Sweden", especially the one on the left wearing sneakers and her hat with the pink roses!
jamikens: as always, your pictures are works of art. Thanks for reminding me how special the small streets of Rome are. One of the little streets near Piazza Navona has this: boutique, boutique, jewelry store, workshop for motorcycle repairs with men of all ages smoking and discussing, then a gelateria. The owner of the motorcycle place had a 3-legged dog that used to beg at the gelateria. I was so often amused by this, but I do not have a picture.
annw: no, my sister is not an experienced traveller. Coming from South Africa and paying with South African Rands makes this a biggie for her. But she is a really nice person, and she can roll with the punches.
leely2: The short dark days did not particularly bother me in Prague. I remember the sun setting red over the river by 3pm on Christmas Day. But I was always aware of the cold. Even if you are dressed warmly and your body is not cold, how do you keep your face from painfully freezing?
nytraveller: I was leaning towards Rome in spite of the commuting problem, because it is less expensive and not as cold. Then I started paging through the guidebooks for Sweden ...

This is the site that made me think that food will be +- the same price in these cities. I was thinking mostly about self-catering:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...aly&city2=Rome

Sorry, I posted the above too soon. Still wanted to add: I was obviously wrong - Stockholm is consistently more expensive.

According to the link, it is $14 more expensive in Stockholm than Rome for a meal for 2, midrange restaurant and 50-60c more expensive for a 33cl bottle of coke, although in Netto you can buy 2 litres of coke for just over $2. No one in their right mind buys bottled water in Sweden, when the stuff that comes out of your kitchen tap is as good. Some of the differences are small in actual money, although coffee is pricey. I can understand price concerns if you are going to be there for a long time, but it's only for 10 days. The overall difference in grocery prices, according to the link, is 11.9% lower in Rome than Stockholm & I doubt it is even that, with discount supermarkets like Netto/Aldi etc. It's not very much.

If price is the deciding factor, go to Rome, otherwise work out which city has the most appeal and decide based on that because cost wise the difference is small and weatherwise, it could go either way.

At least the link shows that McDonalds is not $20+ in Stockholm.

Thanks Odin, for putting this in perspective!

<<I would think Stockholm would be dark well before 5:30 in December. The very limited daylight would push me towards Italy.>>

Stockholm will be full night by 5:30 pm. It is well north of Gdansk and by 3:30 pm in December, Gdansk has its night.

I don't think the link info is accurate. A fast casual hamburger meal at the American chain restaurant Chili's costs more than $20 in Stockholm without appetizers, drinks, or other extras. And the likelihood is that you will not eat full Italian dinners (salad, pasta dish, THEN entree) that would cost significant money.

Rome.

I just got back from Stockholm. It was great. But it would be a very different experience in December. Rome can get pretty cold in winter and even snow, but I think Stockholm will be in a whole other league.

Thanks so much everybody, for your input and support! As always, it is highly appreciated.

My decision is ... (drumroll & trumpets) ... ROME.

I will still go to Stockholm - perhaps even in winter - but on my own, when I do not feel responsible for the comfort level of others.

<<I don't <i>think</i> the link info is accurate.>>

The link is spot on. I was surprised and I think it is a very good link to have. I go to Sweden several times a year. I'm going again next week. I'll be there at Christmas. I was there last December. I rented an apartment for 14 months a year or so ago. I (we) own a house in Sweden. Shopping in supermarkets is what I do. I know them all, Hemköp (bit more upmarket), Willys, Netto(least favourite), Coop. You can click on these links to see supermarket prices. $20 is not bad for a burger in a casual restaurant. That equates to £12/EUR15 which is slightly more than I would pay at Gourmet Burger Kitchen in the UK which ranges from £7 to about £12. Alcohol is deliberately expensive in an effort to discourage drinking and it can only be bought in government shop called Systembolaget. You don't pay 20-30% tip as you do in the US.

However, if you live in South Africa where the Rand is very weak at the moment, everywhere will be hugely expensive for them, so the small price differences will make a big impact to their budget. So Rome will definitely be the right decision. At Spar in ZA you can buy a cappuccino to take out for about $2.50 but in Sweden this would set you back about $8.

https://www.willys.se/
http://www.netto.se/Pages/Start.aspx
https://www.hemkop.se/

<<Rome can get pretty cold in winter and even snow, but I <i>think</i> Stockholm will be in a whole other league.>> It's in the same league as many other cities in winter, eg Prague, Krakow, Moscow, New York etc. It is not Siberia or within the Arctic Circle. If you own a winter coat, hat, gloves and some boots you will be ok. I've been to Milan in winter and it was extremely cold and damp but I don't know Rome at all. Stockholm is beautiful in the winter, roads and pavements are cleared of snow and has a cozy atmosphere as only Scandinavia can create during the cold crisp dark short days of winter. And nobody does Christmas better.

thanks Odin, it is NICE to have somebody who knows what he (she?) is talking about!.

You know about SA (and about SPAR!!), so you will understand that I have never ever seen real snow, and that having a white Christmas is on my bucket list. That is why this was / still is a tough choice for me. I still believe that it will not be that expensive if we do most meals self-catering, using the supermarkets that you recommend. What you are saying about the sidewalks being cleared is so positive. Last year in Prague it did not snow, but still the sidewalks tended to be quite slippery in places. Coming from Dubai with its relentless sun, I enjoy cold and grey days. I do not care about the short days, with the streets well lit the evenings are special.

Why do I choose Rome?
1 This may be a once-in-a-lifetime trip for the family. If you could see only one place in Europe, it is perhaps better to experience a few well-known landmarks.
2 The poor struggling SA Rand. But, as you rightly point out, it is only a 10% difference. If you add this to the total budget of plane tickets, etc, it will not make a substantial difference. It just feels very expensive.

In Dubai I pay a fortune for wine. When I started out here, I realized I should either stop enjoying wine or accept the ridiculous prices. Now I just try to drink sloooowly.

"Nobody does Christmas better" -- yes that is what I have read ... I am again temped!

My promise to myself is to go to Sweden (and Denmark) next December.

kovsie,
I am coming late to the discussion and haven't read all the posts so sorry if this has been repeated or if you've decided.

But, my DD has stayed in Rome and is currently in Stockholm. I've never heard her more excited about an European city as she is with Stockholm. She absolutely loves it. She said it is beautiful beyond what she expected. I never heard her gush on about Rome in the same way (although she enjoyed her visit there).

kovsie,
I see you've decided on Rome. But sounds like you might go to Stockholm some other time. I am going to read this trip report I just noticed and thought you might be interested as well.

Stockholm Trip Report by piles_of__paper

O my, I show my ignorance in so many ways. I have now seen that 'Odin' is a male name, that may mean (amongst others) 'wealthy defender' ... Good name! Please ignore the 'she' above.

Have scanned through the thread again, and am gratified with the quality of info that you all have provided. I am often surprised by how many Fodorites are willing to spend time to guide a newbie on her way. Thanks yet again.

Congrats on your decision - Rome in December will be amazing!!

kovsie--excellent choice. I think Rome wins hands down at that time of year--or any other time of year.

ttt

I'm not sure why you are topping this thread. Are you reconsidering? Are you seeking other information, and if so, what?