Robdaddy's (very) tentative Italian itinerary.. looong post....pls. comment
Oct 20th, 2003, 08:09 AM
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Robdaddy's (very) tentative Italian itinerary.. looong post....pls. comment
First, my thanks to the many of you who put in your two cents worth on my "First time to Italy, only seven nights" post.
Grinisa: yes, at this point we're locked into flying into and out of Rome...wish now I'd booked it differently, but you live and learn.
Bizus: Elba! What a cool idea! Where do you train into from Florence to do that, and are the ferries running in early March?
Ira: Bless you, bless you, bless you for suggesting the Peterson. Actually, I got it first from your wonderful trip report. They've been very prompt in responding to my emails and I even had a delightful phone conversation with Chiara. I don't suppose you have a similar wonderful rec. for Rome??
Anyway, here's the first pass plan: Arr. Rome 10 AM Tues., spend first 2 days there. Have reservations confirmed at Res. San Pantaleo.
Thurs. morning take train to Florence, where we'll stay for four days/nights. Thinking of 2 days to see Florence, a (long) day trip to Venice, one day open for something like Lucca, Siena/San G. or just dolce far niente in Florence if we're really enamored of it. Also haven't ruled out renting a car for one day and driving the famous 222 through Chianti...or (because I'd kinda like to see some dramatic coastline, maybe train it to CT
Mon. Mar. 15. Flex day...if Rome really grabbed us and we want to see more, we'll take an early train back and do that; another option is to go to Orvieto or...? for the better part of the day, arriving in Rome early evening for dinner, gelato and a stroll around before a good nights sleep and flying out morning of the 16th. San Pantaleo is booked for this night, so still looking for something.
Yikes, sorry for the length of this but coldn't think of a briefer way to get in what I wanted. Anyway, whaddya think?
Grinisa: yes, at this point we're locked into flying into and out of Rome...wish now I'd booked it differently, but you live and learn.
Bizus: Elba! What a cool idea! Where do you train into from Florence to do that, and are the ferries running in early March?
Ira: Bless you, bless you, bless you for suggesting the Peterson. Actually, I got it first from your wonderful trip report. They've been very prompt in responding to my emails and I even had a delightful phone conversation with Chiara. I don't suppose you have a similar wonderful rec. for Rome??
Anyway, here's the first pass plan: Arr. Rome 10 AM Tues., spend first 2 days there. Have reservations confirmed at Res. San Pantaleo.
Thurs. morning take train to Florence, where we'll stay for four days/nights. Thinking of 2 days to see Florence, a (long) day trip to Venice, one day open for something like Lucca, Siena/San G. or just dolce far niente in Florence if we're really enamored of it. Also haven't ruled out renting a car for one day and driving the famous 222 through Chianti...or (because I'd kinda like to see some dramatic coastline, maybe train it to CT
Mon. Mar. 15. Flex day...if Rome really grabbed us and we want to see more, we'll take an early train back and do that; another option is to go to Orvieto or...? for the better part of the day, arriving in Rome early evening for dinner, gelato and a stroll around before a good nights sleep and flying out morning of the 16th. San Pantaleo is booked for this night, so still looking for something.
Yikes, sorry for the length of this but coldn't think of a briefer way to get in what I wanted. Anyway, whaddya think?
Oct 20th, 2003, 08:34 AM
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I'd just stay in Rome and do a day trip to Orvieto and not incurr the stress and energy/time drain that comes with so many city/hotel changes in such a short period of time.
However, if you don't agree, then I'd suggest you land in Rome and then go straight to Florence for three nights. Then return to Rome and spend the remainder of the time there.
Keep it simple and use the less is better approach. Its not like you will NEVER return to Italy.
Its a waste of energy and time to go to Rome for just two nights and then pick up a leave again, only to return again for a final night. The first day you will be "dazed" from jet-lag and be unable to fully appreciate the city.
I'd just stay in Rome and do a day trip to Orvieto.
However, if you don't agree, then I'd suggest you land in Rome and then go straight to Florence for three nights. Then return to Rome and spend the remainder of the time there.
Keep it simple and use the less is better approach. Its not like you will NEVER return to Italy.
Its a waste of energy and time to go to Rome for just two nights and then pick up a leave again, only to return again for a final night. The first day you will be "dazed" from jet-lag and be unable to fully appreciate the city.
I'd just stay in Rome and do a day trip to Orvieto.
Oct 20th, 2003, 08:46 AM
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Hi Rob,
Glad you booked the Peterson. We stayed one night at the Holiday Inn EUR-Parco dei Medici. 110E/nite dbl. It's European International. Very good buffet breakfast. Also, at dinner they have an antipasto buffet for 7E that can be a full dinner. They have free shuttle service to/from the airport as well as to from downtown.
I suggest that you not do the daytrip to Venice. It's 3 hr each way on the train. The earliest ES* (8:30)gets you there at 11:30, and you will probably want to take the 6:00 PM train back.
I also suggest skipping the CT.
You can do both of these trips another time.
On your way back to Rome, you could stop off in Orvieto as an alternative to another day in Florence or Rome.
Have a great trip.
Glad you booked the Peterson. We stayed one night at the Holiday Inn EUR-Parco dei Medici. 110E/nite dbl. It's European International. Very good buffet breakfast. Also, at dinner they have an antipasto buffet for 7E that can be a full dinner. They have free shuttle service to/from the airport as well as to from downtown.
I suggest that you not do the daytrip to Venice. It's 3 hr each way on the train. The earliest ES* (8:30)gets you there at 11:30, and you will probably want to take the 6:00 PM train back.
I also suggest skipping the CT.
You can do both of these trips another time.
On your way back to Rome, you could stop off in Orvieto as an alternative to another day in Florence or Rome.
Have a great trip.
Oct 21st, 2003, 06:57 AM
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Thank you both for your input. Ira, I have a question. Why do you think the daytrip to Venice is not a good idea?
I know it won't come close to doing Venice justice, and that it will make for a long day, but the reason I ask is, don't people spend just as much time, money and energy daytripping from Rome to Pompeii? Is there something I'm overlooking here?
And yeah, we're giving serious thought to spending a good part of the last day in Orvieto before heading to Rome for our last night.
I know it won't come close to doing Venice justice, and that it will make for a long day, but the reason I ask is, don't people spend just as much time, money and energy daytripping from Rome to Pompeii? Is there something I'm overlooking here?
And yeah, we're giving serious thought to spending a good part of the last day in Orvieto before heading to Rome for our last night.
Oct 21st, 2003, 07:22 AM
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Cut out the CT and a daytrip to Venice.
Too long of a transit time and cost for such few hours there. Venice is too special to rush, it needs to be sipped at leisure and not gulped during a whirlwind.
Agree with the idea of going straight to florence and then back to Rome. Make your trip focus on just main two locations to reduce stress and enable yourself to fully absorb and appreciate things.
Too long of a transit time and cost for such few hours there. Venice is too special to rush, it needs to be sipped at leisure and not gulped during a whirlwind.
Agree with the idea of going straight to florence and then back to Rome. Make your trip focus on just main two locations to reduce stress and enable yourself to fully absorb and appreciate things.
Oct 21st, 2003, 07:40 AM
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Robdaddy
Venice isn't large but it is larger than Pompeii. Also, Pompeii is straightforward to navigate, while Venice is not (part of its charm.)Finally, Pompeii is just one 'theme' if you will, while Venice is multi-thematic: art, architecture, churches, the works.
If your heart is set on Venice, you have several alternatives:
a) Leave your main bags in your Florence hotel and spring for a single night at a hotel in Mestre (should be quite cheap in March, although you will have a 10 min bus or train ride into Venice proper.) Forget the official attractions of Venice and just enjoy your day wandering.
b)
Rome n1. Before leaving the airport, book your train to Venice. Do a leisurely walk from Trastevere past the Trevi Fountain to the Spanish steps.
Train to Venice n2,n3 (4.5-5 hrs fast train)
Train to Florence n 4,n5. Forget Siena, just concentrate on the art of Florence.
Early train to Rome,n6,7 - 1 day for the Vatican, the other for 'old Rome' (Forum, Colosseum, more walks)
Venice isn't large but it is larger than Pompeii. Also, Pompeii is straightforward to navigate, while Venice is not (part of its charm.)Finally, Pompeii is just one 'theme' if you will, while Venice is multi-thematic: art, architecture, churches, the works.
If your heart is set on Venice, you have several alternatives:
a) Leave your main bags in your Florence hotel and spring for a single night at a hotel in Mestre (should be quite cheap in March, although you will have a 10 min bus or train ride into Venice proper.) Forget the official attractions of Venice and just enjoy your day wandering.
b)
Rome n1. Before leaving the airport, book your train to Venice. Do a leisurely walk from Trastevere past the Trevi Fountain to the Spanish steps.
Train to Venice n2,n3 (4.5-5 hrs fast train)
Train to Florence n 4,n5. Forget Siena, just concentrate on the art of Florence.
Early train to Rome,n6,7 - 1 day for the Vatican, the other for 'old Rome' (Forum, Colosseum, more walks)
Oct 21st, 2003, 08:09 AM
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I went back to your orginal post asking for options/recommendations and it looks like you ignored the majority opinion to focus on few cities and less movement. Thats fine since you have to do what your heart is set on doing sometimes. It looks like you want to go to Venice, so go ahead and do it.
Oct 21st, 2003, 08:33 AM
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Sorry for this long post - I get carried away very easily... Robdaddy, if you want to go to Venice, go. You have to work with what you've got. When you really think about it, is TWO WEEKS even enough for a city like Venice or Rome? In my opinion, Venice is a city that you should travel to if you have the chance. Many other cities wouldn't be worth it, but just to "see" Venice is worth the time and money you'll spend traveling there. It's so unlike any other city that, even if you don't "do it justice," a day there is well spent.
Get there as early in the day as possible - if you can, the night before and then get up early - before dawn. The pre-8:00 Venice is the one you'll never forget. This is the Venice you've always imagined.
Not bad for one day: we wandered the empty morning streets, stopped in a just-opened-for-the-day bakery for a pastry, found the Piazza San Marco, watched the pigeons, drank coffee outdoors off of San Marco square, rode the Vaporetto through the city, walked some more, caught the view from the tower above San Marco (forgive my memory, I forget the name), ate a great lunch, shopped, Vaporettoed to Murano and back, drank a bottle of wine while sitting on a canal and fending off hopeful gondoliers, bought another bottle of wine, received yet another bottle of wine (!) from the bartender from whom I'd bought the first two (he had just finished work), learned a little Italian, wound up in the Piazza San Marco for the night-time orchestra wars (at which point a string quintet took my drunken request and played the tango from "Scent of a Woman"
, and cried with amazement (and, of course, the wine) as I looked up at the stars above Venice, barely believing I was there.
My one day in Venice was one of the most unforgettable parts of my European mini-tour. Go!!!!
Get there as early in the day as possible - if you can, the night before and then get up early - before dawn. The pre-8:00 Venice is the one you'll never forget. This is the Venice you've always imagined.
Not bad for one day: we wandered the empty morning streets, stopped in a just-opened-for-the-day bakery for a pastry, found the Piazza San Marco, watched the pigeons, drank coffee outdoors off of San Marco square, rode the Vaporetto through the city, walked some more, caught the view from the tower above San Marco (forgive my memory, I forget the name), ate a great lunch, shopped, Vaporettoed to Murano and back, drank a bottle of wine while sitting on a canal and fending off hopeful gondoliers, bought another bottle of wine, received yet another bottle of wine (!) from the bartender from whom I'd bought the first two (he had just finished work), learned a little Italian, wound up in the Piazza San Marco for the night-time orchestra wars (at which point a string quintet took my drunken request and played the tango from "Scent of a Woman"
, and cried with amazement (and, of course, the wine) as I looked up at the stars above Venice, barely believing I was there.My one day in Venice was one of the most unforgettable parts of my European mini-tour. Go!!!!
Oct 21st, 2003, 08:36 AM
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Hi Rob,
>Why do you think the daytrip to Venice is not a good idea? <
Hansikday and Sue have it right. Furthermore, if you just do the long, arduous, tiring, unsatisfying and much-too-short daytrip you will be one of thousands of people doing the same thing
and will miss out on Venice at night.
You run the risk of being one of those people who wonder many of us love Venice.
>Why do you think the daytrip to Venice is not a good idea? <
Hansikday and Sue have it right. Furthermore, if you just do the long, arduous, tiring, unsatisfying and much-too-short daytrip you will be one of thousands of people doing the same thing
and will miss out on Venice at night.
You run the risk of being one of those people who wonder many of us love Venice.
Oct 21st, 2003, 08:48 AM
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My great memories compiled from several trips to Venice, averaging four nights each:
Sitting under the stars at St. Mark's Square sipping a drink and listening to the battling orchestras.
Wandering the little streets across tiny bridges at night seeking out a hidden little restaurant and then eating in an open square or by an open window with the sound of the water lapping against the wall.
Sitting on my little balcony overlooking the Grand Canal as the sun sets over the water.
Sitting on my little balcony overlooking the Grand Canal late at night with just a few gondolas drifting by in the moonlight.
Waking up to the commotion of the Grand Canal and watching the early morning deliveries -- guys tossing whole cases of things from the gondolas to the shore and catching and stacking them.
Oh yes, I think there's a city there too that you can see by daylight.
Sitting under the stars at St. Mark's Square sipping a drink and listening to the battling orchestras.
Wandering the little streets across tiny bridges at night seeking out a hidden little restaurant and then eating in an open square or by an open window with the sound of the water lapping against the wall.
Sitting on my little balcony overlooking the Grand Canal as the sun sets over the water.
Sitting on my little balcony overlooking the Grand Canal late at night with just a few gondolas drifting by in the moonlight.
Waking up to the commotion of the Grand Canal and watching the early morning deliveries -- guys tossing whole cases of things from the gondolas to the shore and catching and stacking them.
Oh yes, I think there's a city there too that you can see by daylight.
Oct 21st, 2003, 08:59 AM
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I'm going to emphasize my point and say that I agree with Patrick that those are some of the best things about Venice - and (replace balcony with canal's edge) I experienced them all in one day. I appreciate everyone's points about taking time to absorb and not drive yourself crazy, but if this could be Robdaddy's only chance to see these places... drive yourself crazy! Go to Cinqueterra. Hike between the towns (it's the best way to see that rugged coastline you're looking for) and eat dinner in one of them. And Siena - there's a great restaurant in a 13th or 14th century tower there (I am so bad with names). I did Cinqueterra, Pisa, Florence, Siena, Rome, Capri, and Venice in a week, with a day for each, and I wouldn't change it for the world. My goal was to find the places to which I'd like to someday return, and I found, just as I had expected, that I want to return to all of them.
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:30 AM
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Obviously, everyone has his/her own opinion. I was just trying to offer an alternate vote for consideration... Most people were saying, "No way," so I thought I'd vouch that it IS possible - it just depends on what you're looking for in your visit. It seems to me as though you, Robdaddy, don't mind a little craziness, so I'm just letting you know it's feasible!!!!
Oct 22nd, 2003, 03:36 PM
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Venice as a daytrip is probably one of the most wasted travel experiences in existence. No comparison to Pompeii--Pompeii as one sight to see. Venice is a city with many, many sights to see, and its physical layout is not conducive to a postive daytrip experience.
That's not to say that some people haven't gotten enjoyment from a Venice daytrip, just that it's not likely to be expecially enjoyable.
That's not to say that some people haven't gotten enjoyment from a Venice daytrip, just that it's not likely to be expecially enjoyable.
Oct 22nd, 2003, 10:20 PM
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Robdaddy: I had an incredible daytrip to Venice last year. I was on a 25- day vacation focused on art, exploring lifestyles, food, wine and the local culture(s). I went from Paris to Arles to Bilbao to Barcelona to villages in Provence to Aix to Nice to Florence to Venice and back to Paris again. The airline re-routed me back to the US via Amsterdam, so I got to see another incredible art exhibit on the way home.
I know that the travelers who've had the time to stay for many days have experienced "a different Venice", and may know its ambience, restaurants and stars - but I,m glad I got to be there (for the Peggy Guggenheim collection, for lunch, outdoors, by the canal, for the walks through parks, where hundreds of children played after school.) I am happy I was there, if only for a day.
I know that the travelers who've had the time to stay for many days have experienced "a different Venice", and may know its ambience, restaurants and stars - but I,m glad I got to be there (for the Peggy Guggenheim collection, for lunch, outdoors, by the canal, for the walks through parks, where hundreds of children played after school.) I am happy I was there, if only for a day.
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