Ackislander

I think it is worth reflecting on what NYCFoodSnob has written above.

I don't agree with all of it, but it is all intelligent and based on experience.

It should be part of your risk assessment process.

justineparis

Funny I know some lovely people , relatives actually who were born and raised in Paris and would not see eye to eye with NYCFoodsnobs assessment.

To actually have the centric view that if you don't want me "making me feel unwelcome" ( for making staying in illegal rentals difficult ) instead of,, "its a good thing the city cares about its actual residents and wants them to be able to find accomodation in their OWN city rather then cater to tourists only" is not reasonable.

I think most of them would say .. please.. stay away .

Christina

"I thought some of the listings said they'd return the deposit within a week after checking out?"

No ordinary person with half a brain, who has done the homework, is going to view that stipulation as reasonable.>>

???? why on earth not? What does one expect, my last deposit was by Paypal, so it had to be returned that way. What else would I do to get it back, 10 days is reasonable. I'm not sure what that point was -- if the idea is you must insist on it the minute you leave, that assumes you are hanging around the apt for hours with someone who can give you the money. I often have to leave at the crack of dawn for a flight, so just exit and leave the keys on the table. Of course I have to wait to get the deposit back. And some apts have managers or staff who come later i the day to assess possible damage. This is not unusual at all.

I think I'm pretty ordinary and I have a full brain, a deposit returned within 10 days seems reasonable to me.

sandralist

I thought the funniest thing NYFS wrote, regarding Place des Vosges, was:

"We worked very hard to improve the neighborhood."

Apart from pocketing the "fortune", guess Paris just didn't turn out to be the improved place NYCFoodSnob wanted it to be. Myabe if Americans want to see a welcoming attitude toward "the other" around the world, they should lead by example (instead from so far behind).

NYCFoodSnob

<i><font color=#555555>"its a good thing the city cares about its actual residents"</font></i>

I'm not quite so gullible. The issue is about money and perhaps fear of "something," but it's not about compassion.

<i><font color=#555555>"that assumes you are hanging around the apt for hours with someone who can give you the money"</font></i>

I have waited for hours to receive keys to enter my abode, but I have never had to wait for the return of my security deposit. If the apartment is going to be inspected for damage, I MUST BE PRESENT when the inspection takes place. IMO, any other option is not smart or acceptable.

<i><font color=#555555>"I often have to leave at the crack of dawn for a flight"</font></i>

Fortunately for me, I dictate when I fly, and I can't remember the last time I had to endure a flight at the "crack of dawn." That's not how I roll. If a renter must endure such inconvenience, there's no harm in requesting a walk-through the night before.

<i><font color=#555555>"a deposit returned within 10 days seems reasonable to me"</font></i>

Every consumer has his or her own definition of reasonable. I've been a landlord for a very long time, and I'm a very busy and active woman. IMO, holding a security deposit beyond a tenant's stay is abusive customer treatment. If you think that's appropriate behavior, then hey, it's your money. Do what pleases you. A lot of consumers don't mind being abused.

NYCFoodSnob

<i><font color=#555555>"Apart from pocketing the "fortune", guess Paris just didn't turn out to be the improved place NYCFoodSnob wanted it to be."</font></i>

Putting aside the snark of a troll post, I had nothing to do with the decision to sell. Of the three investors, the lead investor was a Parisian resident. It's a good thing his intelligence and financial experience lead the key decisions.

Nor did I have any control of politics post 9/11.

justineparis

OF course the issue is about money.. where on earth do city officals think its ok to have a whole underground economy where they are missing out on the proper taxes being paid to the city. And you had better believe a large proportion of short term apartment renters are not declaring their income and paying their fair portion of taxes on that undeclared income.
And as for the politics of it.. well.. duh.. if I am a resident I want the politicians working for ME., not just you the tourist.. If vacancy rates are low and that's partly because of investors buying apartments and renting them out for 1000 euros a week , as short term holiday lets( and not declaring or underdeclaring the income) .. as opposed to renting them to residents at 2000 euros a month for them to live in.. really ?

"something else going on"

WHAT are you being so coy about NYFoodsnob.

What exactly is "going on "?

And maybe your partner was intelligent enough to realize that short term apartment rentals would run into problems down the road.. as they are right now.

PS.. Did you declare and pay taxes on all your investment income in France? Did your partner? Guess you may not know that one exactly for sure.

Ps I own and rent investment properties here.. and the law allows me 10 days to return damage deposits. It may take time in some cases to get estimates for repairs etc and when I withhold a damage deposit I have to have proper estimates of repair to determine how much to keep back.When I was younger I returned a damage deposit and discovered an issue a few days later that cost me money to fix.. so now , I keep the damage deposit for a few days at least just to be sure.. ever have a tenant move in and point out something isn't right a few days later,, I have ( dishwasher was not functioning,, was clogged,repairman said it hadn't had filter cleaned and obviously food was not scraped at all before dishes were put in) , but this is not something you can notice on a walk thru on day of end of tenancy)

justineparis

oh , and that was not the issue that really cost me.. that's a whole other story.

NYCFoodSnob

<i><font color=#555555>"I returned a damage deposit and discovered an issue a few days later that cost me money to fix.. so now , I keep the damage deposit for a few days at least just to be sure.. ever have a tenant move in and point out something isn't right a few days later,, I have ( dishwasher was not functioning,, was clogged,repairman said it hadn't had filter cleaned and obviously food was not scraped at all before dishes were put in) , but this is not something you can notice on a walk thru on day of end of tenancy)"</font></i>

Everyone views money differently. No two landlords think alike. I think there are smart, clever, attractive ways to prevent misuse of appliances in a rental property. My security deposits have always been steep. My properties are very special. However, I don't punish tenants for accidental damage. Accidents happen, and stuff eventually dies. I've never felt a need to attach a financial cost to any mishap. Out of all the tenants I've had through the years, I never withheld $1 from anyone's security deposit. IMO, whatever needed fixed or replacing came out of the cost of doing business. I've never lost money on a rental property. I enjoy being a generous, hospitable landlord.

Now, if I found a cigarette burn, when the rules clearly state in bold caps: NO SMOKING, then my generosity ends. That hasn't happened yet.

<i><font color=#555555>"And maybe your partner was intelligent enough to realize that short term apartment rentals would run into problems"</font></i>

Our real estate investment in a building that needed serious rehabilitation was never classified as a "short term apartment." Anticipating the financial meltdown in 2007 and the burst in the housing market was indeed fortuitous.

<i><font color=#555555>"Did you declare and pay taxes on all your investment income in France? Did your partner?"</font></i>

My accountant of 20+ years is a former employee of the IRS. I take orders from her. As for anyone else, I respect privacy and boundaries, and I never ask questions that are none of my business.

justineparis

There is a difference between wear and tear, and neglect or misuse.

And I have withheld damage deposits several times.. broken window pane, burn mark from pot put on counter, cat spray on carpet, etc etc.
Good for you if you have never had issues.. but in over 25 years of renting out dozens of units that would be miraculous to me to overlook keeping my investments safe from depreciation from damages.

And the point of this was about the illegal apartment rental situation in Paris.. of which you apparently were invested in since you clearly state you were aware that the building you bought in did not allow short term rentals( but you did it anyways for awhile ).

NYCFoodSnob

<i><font color=#555555>"over 25 years of renting out dozens of units"</font></i>

I've never been that kind of landlord.

<i><font color=#555555>"since you clearly state you were aware that the building you bought in did not allow short term rentals( but you did it anyways for awhile )"</font></i>

I have no idea what you're talking about.

justineparis

I obviously misunderstood your post.. I thought you invested in an apartment in Paris as a rental unit.. but you were simply flipping it.
That's actually what the topic is.. short term apartment rentals in Paris.
Not sure how your experience simply buying fixing and flipping a place in Paris gives you any special insight then into the situation as it is now, or then ?

NYCFoodSnob

<i><font color=#555555>"but you were simply flipping it"</font></i>

I still have no idea what you're talking about.

manouche

Here are some tips to help a renter try to protect his security deposit, though anytime you pay cash for deposit or rent, you are taking a huge risk. Legally, that money never existed, so you should be prepared to kiss it goodbye, if something goes wrong. Illegal rentals complicate the issue, of course.

1) Read your rental contract before you sign it. There should be a mention of the length of time deposits will be held before they re returned. If there isn't, ask for that to be added.
2) On arrival, do a complete walk-through with the greeter, note any discrepancies and sign an inventory only after you both agree that this has been satisfactorily completed. If you don't do this, it's your word against his - guess who wins? Some people take photos of the property - probably not a bad idea.
3) Don't cause any damage. If you do, don't attempt to replace or fix anything. Most owners will reject what you buy, and will charge you anyway.
4) Before departure, repeat Step 2.
5) If there has been any damage, the greeter must take photos and document the damage. Your entire deposit may be withheld - but it must be put in escrow. You are not responsible for paying any damages until you receive detailed receipts from merchants (stores) or service providers (cleaning services). This amount will then be deducted from your deposit, and the balance refunded within the period stated on your rental contract. If you wish to contest a damage charge, now is the time to produce those photos - no photos, no luck.

Anyone renting property has the right to set his own terms. Anyone wishing to stay there has to abide by them. Since short-term rentals in Paris are illegal, you have no legal recourse if something goes awry - as you would in many cities in the US and elsewhere.
If you pay by credit card or PayPal, you might not be covered, either. Each bank and PayPal set certain limitations on what they will allow. Don't take anything for granted, don't base your choices on what someone else did, read the fine print and take the information seriously. If you don't take the time to do a walk-through with the greeter, as well as an "exit interview" - you have only yourself to blame. If you're the kind of person who prefers to never deal with the people you're renting from, the same thing applies.

justineparis

NYfoodsnob.. I have reread your posts ,assuming I have misread them. but have decided you seem to jump in on tangents that do not apply and with citing your experience that seemed happened 9 years ago.. well frankly I give up trying to figure out what your point is or was.. other then :

"there is something more going on here "

Which you have not explained.

scrb11

Well I contacted a number of Flipkey listings and they come back with links to their own web sites for payment.

Some of the links do not even work.

So I guess a lot of these apt. agencies just use sites like Flipkey, AirBnB and VRBO as just another directory but do the actual transactions through some other means.

Really inconsistent though, some ask for full money with no mention of deposit to reserve though if they have your credit card, that is presumably their security deposit.

Then others only mention a $150 key deposit, to be returned presumably when you return the keys. But what if you have an early morning departure and can't hand over the key to someone?

NYCFoodSnob

<i><font color=#555555>""there is something more going on here "

Which you have not explained."</font></i>

The quote which you attribute to me does not exist on this thread, at least not from me. I can't explain a statement I never made. I know I'm often misunderstood on this board, but I've never seen such an extreme example as evidenced on this thread, by you, justineparis. I never know what to say when someone twists my words to argue their point of view. I think of it as bad manners or perhaps a need for new glasses. I really don't know what to make of it.

justineparis

What does the "anti" refer to ?

You have insinuated and danced around a fair bit. Perhaps I have misinterpreted some of your postings.. but to be fair you are not very clear either.. which may be why you have found your posts occasionally being twisted.

manouche

scrb11 - since vacation rentals are not regulated, there is no standard regarding payment, keys, deposits - nothing.

The sites you mentioned - and most other websites - are simply paid advertising. Nobody verifies the content, there are no "company rules", and the sites do not take responsibility for any problems between the owner and renter.

The property owner pays a fee, posts photos and a description of the property. The photos and the description might be accurate or deliberately misleading. Reviews are not always genuine. He sets his own rules.

These websites are not secured, and are regularly hacked by "phishers", who change descriptions, payment methods and contact information. The owner is often not aware that this has been done, until he is contacted by an irate client who showed up and had no place to stay. There are a few famous "phishers" in Great Britain who make quite a good living hacking these sites.

If you book through any of these websites, you are taking a shot in the dark. You can try to protect yourself by investigating the owner's references on social media, searching for reviews other than those on the listing website, calling the owner and asking lots of questions. Even so, all you have is the word of a stranger. If you don't qt least take the time to do this - or don't want to - you will have only yourself to blame if something doesn't go the way you planned. Even so, using listing websites instead of an agency is taking a big risk.

NYCFoodSnob

<i><font color=#555555>"What does the "anti" refer to?"</font></i>

Are you reading <b>anything</b> other than Fodor's? OK, if Fodor's is your only source of news, have you read any of the "vacation rental in Paris" threads? Pick your poison.

<i><font color=#555555>"Perhaps I have misinterpreted some of your postings.. but to be fair you are not very clear either."</font></i>

You <i>have</i> misinterpreted some of my posts. In an effort to avoid political commentary, I am as clear as I wish to be on this thread.

<i><font color=#555555>"all you have is the word of a stranger"</font></i>

There was a time when the word of stranger meant something. In 30+ years of travel, I have met many wonderful strangers. Most of the strangers were kind, helpful, generous, and supremely hospitable. They understood the challenges of travel and worked hard to make you, another stranger, feel safe, comfortable, and most of all welcome. In fact, not one stranger I met in all my vacation rental experiences has ever let me down, treated me unkindly, or tried to rip me off. Sadly, the "anti" noise on the internet feeds overblown hysteria, and the tumor keeps growing.

Growth may take a hit, but the cream tends to rise to the top. You'll no doubt have to sift through much more cancerous noise these days, but plenty of choices are still available. Since no government is encouraging city-center investment in affordable hotels for middle-class travelers and their families, perhaps the vacation rental market will never die. Much like marijuana and liquor in the 1920's, when the customer demands it, the market will find a way.