Hi Anya,

Is there any website to that book ?
Our bookstores here don't have it.

Yes, 1 and 2-star hotels are much less expensive in small, undiscovered towns. Shared bathrooms (usually noted as bathroom on the floor) are just fine in my experience. Bed & breakfast accommodations are often less expensive than the small hotels, and usually the bath is shared. If you communicate with local tourist offices once you choose your towns, they should be able to provide a list of private homes offering b & b.

Do take a look at that website

hostelworld.com for your big-city accommodations. It looks like a site with solid info on prices, etc. J.

Hi again. Chinesefan, I do encourage you to find a good railmap of Europe to see if some of the places on your wishlist are close enough to combine as daytrips. For example, if you stay three nights in Bern (look into hostels or b&bs rather than hotels), you can easily daytrip to Geneve, Lucerne, the Oberland, and even Zurich -- the Swiss rail system is spectacular and the scenery from the train is never boring. By contrast, if you stay in a small town like Brienz, there's a pension called Hause Fluhmann with reasonable rates, though not nearly as inexpensive as a hostel. I'm not that familiar with daytrips in Italy, but I'm sure there are one or two central locations.

I've been trying to remember details of my trips "on the move" from many years ago. One thing I remember doing is leaving one b & b, riding the train to an interesting one-day target, visiting that city all day long with our bags in train station lockers, then taking a night train from that station to the next country (selected to allow a fairly long night's sleep). We slept in regular coach seats, so there was no supplement to our railpass cost. I couldn't do that now, but at the time, it was a great adventure. J.

correction: Haus Fluhmann in Brienz. And I forget each time to ask you if you've decided when you will travel. You can save considerably by traveling before or after high season. p.s. As far as I know, water is safe to drink.

Thanks Chinesefan, I have a friend who lives in Switzerland so I only know one small part of the country (around the Geneva area) but I have been there many times.

Rooms: In hostels you could get either a bunk bed in a dormitory or some offer private rooms. Almost always there is a shared bathroom among many.

Hotels: Usually the shared toilet is in the hallway in a small room and several people may use it. Sometimes there is a sink or shower in your own room. There is no rule about this, but rather many different possible configurations. Same for beds. A "single" would be for 1 person with 1 bed. A "double" for 2 people with one bed. A "twin" for 2 people with two beds. I offer these as general guidelines, not absolute rules. When there is a private bathroom in your room they usually say "en suite".

Thank you J,

My travel date is not fixed but definitely not in the hot and expensive summer and not cold winter that I have to spend a fortune on winter clothes and troublesome carrying too much clothes. Maybe some advice.
About your suggestion of staying 3 days in Bern and take individual day trips to Geneva, Zurich or elsewhere, won't that be spending more time on backtracking the same route to Bern each day ? Isn't it more time saving to hop from place to place and put up in each place each night ?
On overnight train, someone mentioned that there may be stops or transfer in between and you may not get good sleep, true ?
If I stay overnight in a train, can I get a shower in the train or station ?

Thanks suze,

I am trying to figure how much time need for sight-seeings and how much can I rely on my Frommer Book. Take Geneva for instance, my travel book stated:
Day 1: Begin with Jet d'Eau and Flower Clock, a steamer cruise of Lake Geneva, explore Left Bank's Old Town.
Day 2: Visit Musee d Art et d'Kistoire, Red Cross Museum and the Palais des Nations
Day 3: Stroll the guays and take excursions to the Alps

I wonder if I walk fast and see fast, can I cover all those in Day 1 & 2 in just 1 long day ?

Can I spend a morning trip to Mt Blance and go for a lake cruise in the late afternoon or evening in the same day instead of doing it in 2 different days according to the book ?

Of those lakes around Geneva, must I join a scheduled excursion trip or can I just pay for a ticket and take a cruise ride anytime ? Which is cheaper ?

Will the scenery in Lake Geneva appear much different during times of the year ? When is best time to go ?

How much will 3 Basic meals cost per day ?
I read about buying meals from the grocery stall. Will that work ?

"I know some of my questions are silly but I am not".

Thanks again.

Yes the scenery and the weather around Geneva (or any place really) is different in the various seasons - cold, rainy, grey in the winter & more green, warm, sunny in the early spring, summer, early fall.

The person who described using Bern as a base to return to each night will be backtracking often. I believe they chose to do this because they prefer not to carry their suitcases to different places so often.

For the trip you describe I would think you would want to go to a new place stay 1-3 days, then continue on to the next place.

Some train stations do have showers available, but not all.

Some overnight trains go straight thru you would not have to transfer in the middle of the night. You would find this out by carefully examining the website for the train route, or by asking at the train station in person when you buy a ticket.

Hi. Yes, indeed, if you daytrip, you must return from your day's destination. That's the tradeoff for not moving so often from one hotel to another with luggage. Funny, I never thought of daytrips by train as "backtracking". The alternative is to move from hotel to hotel to hotel every day or two instead of every three or four. You see, it's just a matter of different travel philosophies. You'll need to decide what's best for you. J.

keeping this one going for chinesefan

Went down to the bookstore today and the cheapest travel in Europe book is "From $85 a day" No more $5 per day, that must be at least 30 years ago. And that don't include entrance fees and transport.
Which means Food and Accomodation alone will cost me US2,550 for 30 days.
Estimate attractions entrance and local Transport Us1,000(enough ?)
Air ticket US800(if I buy at travel fair) and 1 month Rail Pass US950.
Which means all in $5,300 !
OMG, that is enough for me to join a packaged tour of 1 trip each to US, Canada, Japan/Korea, Australia, HK, Taiwan, Thailand, Bali with 2,000 left to spare.
You will not believe it, will you ??

No, after all my planning effort and all the advice from kind people like you, I MUST not give up !! Start to work hard and save for it.

BTW, I guess can still get cheaper for accom and food for less than 85, can I ? Maybe I get a companion along. Will check out "shoestring" budget tomorrow.

Its fun to plan !! "EUROPE ! EUROPE !"

You can also save the entire page to your hard drive: right click anywhere on the page, select <b>Save as</b> and make up a file name for it.

Now it will be accessible when you are off line,

You can download it to your PDA or PPC,

It will be text-searchable,

Many trees will be saved.

I believe a typical price for a bunk in a hostel is approx. 25 euro per person per night.

Also do go read on The Thorn Tree bulletin board www.lonelyplanet.com because those folks definitely travel of a lesser budget!

Hi. Did you price a second class eurrail pass? If it's still out of sight, then how did the bus pass you first mentioned compare? Look again at hostelworld.com to see how the rates shape up in cities or smaller places. Check out bnb websites. I know I'm repeating myself, but the work involved in researching these things will result in considerable savings. Yes, and skip lunch if you have to. I did that for many a trip with the help of the breakfast that came with the room. Do stay in one place for several nights to get a better room rate. Do consider sleeping (not well but cheaply) on a nighttrain. Each time you do, you'll save the cost of a room. Opt for rooms with the bath down the hall instead of ensuite. Do travel off season. Planning is half the fun.

By the way, the bnb in Brienz that I mentioned (Haus Fluhmann) is 45 swiss francs per night including breakfast; the exchange rate is about 1.20 swf per dollar. If you visit bnb.ch, you'll find others. Switzerland is your most expensive country; at least I think so. One more thing. I think there are still tourist info offices at all railroad stations that will find you a room if you land someplace w/o reservations. They ususally have lists of private homes that rent to tourists. Hang in there. This is supposed to be fun. J.

usually. When WILL I learn to proofread.