Rail Europe Prices are 25 to 50% higher than in Europe
May 13th, 2011, 03:53 PM
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Rail Europe Prices are 25 to 50% higher than in Europe
After looking for prices on Raileurope webpage I decided that the best way to go was buying a France pass and I did everything I could to make it less expensive: I bought a saver second class pass for four days in one month and paid $518 USD.
Then I got the pass and tried to make reservations for TGV trains. I got to TGV web page and I discovered that they where way a lot cheaper if I had bought them directly at TGV, fortunately I didn’t’ do the same mistake with the Eurostar train to London because as well your price with discount for pass holders is above the normal price for anyone who buys it at it’s web page.
The specific examples where:
For the same amount of days in France I would have paid:
323 Euros that are $462 USD with reservations included and traveling in first class; with you where $606 USD; $518 USD for the pass plus $88 USD for reservations second class. A difference of $144 USD
Now is not worth it for me to return my pass and demand my money back, because I’ve already talked to their costumers service and they tell me they have a 15% charge in case of refund and I would have to send the pass to USA, so I’ll use it but I feel ripped off. I’m going to make shure to share my discontent with as many people as I can and of curse I’ll be using the Internet for that and all the travelers pages.
I think what they do is not right; they are lying to costumers and that is a lack of ethics.
Then I got the pass and tried to make reservations for TGV trains. I got to TGV web page and I discovered that they where way a lot cheaper if I had bought them directly at TGV, fortunately I didn’t’ do the same mistake with the Eurostar train to London because as well your price with discount for pass holders is above the normal price for anyone who buys it at it’s web page.
The specific examples where:
For the same amount of days in France I would have paid:
323 Euros that are $462 USD with reservations included and traveling in first class; with you where $606 USD; $518 USD for the pass plus $88 USD for reservations second class. A difference of $144 USD
Now is not worth it for me to return my pass and demand my money back, because I’ve already talked to their costumers service and they tell me they have a 15% charge in case of refund and I would have to send the pass to USA, so I’ll use it but I feel ripped off. I’m going to make shure to share my discontent with as many people as I can and of curse I’ll be using the Internet for that and all the travelers pages.
I think what they do is not right; they are lying to costumers and that is a lack of ethics.
May 13th, 2011, 04:04 PM
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There are few itineraries where passes will offer you better value than purchasing tickets directly from SNCF, French rail. This has been discussed at length on this and other travel forums. French TGVs have very limited seating available to pass holders.
Further, Rail Europe never displays discount pricing which is otherwise available nor does RE display complete train schedules.
Before anyone purchases a rail pass, he should check into what costs would be if he purchased individual tickets in advance. He loses some flexibility but he gains the possibility of travelling much more economically.
www.voyage-sncf.com (in French only)
www.idtgv.com (available to those in North America or Europe)
www.tgv-europe.com (anyone living in the USA should indicate that they are picking up tickets in France or that they live in the UK to preclude being bumped to Raileurope.)
Further, Rail Europe never displays discount pricing which is otherwise available nor does RE display complete train schedules.
Before anyone purchases a rail pass, he should check into what costs would be if he purchased individual tickets in advance. He loses some flexibility but he gains the possibility of travelling much more economically.
www.voyage-sncf.com (in French only)
www.idtgv.com (available to those in North America or Europe)
www.tgv-europe.com (anyone living in the USA should indicate that they are picking up tickets in France or that they live in the UK to preclude being bumped to Raileurope.)
May 13th, 2011, 05:16 PM
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Sarastro - thanks, always appreciate your advice. For the benefit again of non Europeans (not just North Americans) would you mind spelling out exactly what is meant by 'picking up tickets in France' if we check that option - for example, will they be available across the counter at all stations, or just main stations, and/ or from all ticket machines, or just some ticket machines, and from SNCF boutiques.
BTW, when I booked Eurostar with RE Australia a few months back they offered the same range of fares as the Eurostar website and their fee (for an electronic ticket) was $3 per ticket (which I judged worthwhile at the time because local email advice was available if required - other electronic and of course hard copy tickets attracted higher fees). For the benefit of beginners, retrieving tickets from the machines at the Eurostar terminals was straightforward - there are language options and all you do is enter a six letter code. Saves carrying around the ticket, often non replaceable, on your trip.
My one experience with an SNCF boutique - they could or would not ticket a train/ bus combo involving a different return route to a village in eastern France, but it was no problem for the helpful ticket person at Gare de l'Est.
BTW, when I booked Eurostar with RE Australia a few months back they offered the same range of fares as the Eurostar website and their fee (for an electronic ticket) was $3 per ticket (which I judged worthwhile at the time because local email advice was available if required - other electronic and of course hard copy tickets attracted higher fees). For the benefit of beginners, retrieving tickets from the machines at the Eurostar terminals was straightforward - there are language options and all you do is enter a six letter code. Saves carrying around the ticket, often non replaceable, on your trip.
My one experience with an SNCF boutique - they could or would not ticket a train/ bus combo involving a different return route to a village in eastern France, but it was no problem for the helpful ticket person at Gare de l'Est.
May 13th, 2011, 05:48 PM
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If you had read anything about rail travel on this board you would have found out that Rail Europe is strictly a ticket selling agent that provides people the convenience of buying tickets (or passes - though don;t know why anyone gets them) at home in dollars before they leave. They never claim to have the lowest price - or even not the highest price.
If you glance at the local RR web sites you will see that they have many discounts - for various trains or days or advance purchase etc. Yes, it's a little more complicated - but then sving money is usually more work.
You are paying Rail Europe a premium for convenience - why complain.
This is like buying a very high priced plane ticket, then being mad that another airline offers a cheaper ticket. As with anything else - do your homework and buyer beware.
If you glance at the local RR web sites you will see that they have many discounts - for various trains or days or advance purchase etc. Yes, it's a little more complicated - but then sving money is usually more work.
You are paying Rail Europe a premium for convenience - why complain.
This is like buying a very high priced plane ticket, then being mad that another airline offers a cheaper ticket. As with anything else - do your homework and buyer beware.
May 13th, 2011, 05:49 PM
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For those from the USA who do not have an EMV or pin and chip credit card, ticket kiosks are not available for ticket pickup. The procedure will be to present both the locater or reservation number as well as the credit card used for the on line transaction to an agent at either an SNCF boutique or train station service window. The agent will cross check the numbers on the credit card with those used in the original, on line transaction before he issues tickets.
If all of the numbers correspond correctly, your tickets will be issued. If for any reason the numbers do not match (for example a credit card reissue for any reason: left or other loss) you might be illegible for a refund to the original credit card account but your tickets will not be issued.
When purchasing tickets on line which cannot be printed at home, do not lose the credit card used for the purchase. Losing the credit card usually means you will not be able to pickup your tickets.
If all of the numbers correspond correctly, your tickets will be issued. If for any reason the numbers do not match (for example a credit card reissue for any reason: left or other loss) you might be illegible for a refund to the original credit card account but your tickets will not be issued.
When purchasing tickets on line which cannot be printed at home, do not lose the credit card used for the purchase. Losing the credit card usually means you will not be able to pickup your tickets.
May 13th, 2011, 06:26 PM
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Thanks for the elaboration.
I should make it clear that my recent experience was that RE Aust exactly matched (at prevailing exchange rates) the deepest discount on the Eurostar and Thalys sites. I paid a $3 fee for an electronic ticket for each of my Eurostar trips and I think $6 for a Thalys ticket (which ended up being a hard copy ticket couriered to me at no extra charge because of a problem with the RE Aust site initially not wanting to accept my credit card).
I should make it clear that my recent experience was that RE Aust exactly matched (at prevailing exchange rates) the deepest discount on the Eurostar and Thalys sites. I paid a $3 fee for an electronic ticket for each of my Eurostar trips and I think $6 for a Thalys ticket (which ended up being a hard copy ticket couriered to me at no extra charge because of a problem with the RE Aust site initially not wanting to accept my credit card).
May 13th, 2011, 07:22 PM
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FWIW, just checked for travel Paris/ London on 14 June. Cheapest services are those at 1813, 1843 and 1913hrs, for which RE Australia is showing a fare of AUD73 plus a $4 booking fee for an electronic ticket, total of $77, compared with an Australian dollar equivalent of about $69.70 (for GBP45.50) on Eurostar UK or $71.80 (for $76) on its USD site and $66.80 (for 50 euros) on the SNCF site. So RE Aust is offering the range of fares, but is dearer in this example by say, five to ten Australian dollars.
May 13th, 2011, 07:32 PM
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I think it is called not doing your home. Every travel web site that I have ever looked at constantly talks about how high E Rail tickets plus the delivery fees. And how rail pass seldom pay off except for a lot of long distance travel. Got to do your homework.
May 13th, 2011, 07:51 PM
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Yes, but if my limited examples are any guide, the price differential/ ripoff may not necessarily be nearly as great as conventional wisdom would have us believe, RE does in fact appear to be offering the full range of fares (on these premium services anyway) and I still don't know whether the other sites will accept my Australian issued credit card and what would happen if the transaction was otherwise stuffed up - at least with RE Aust I received the benefit of 'local' email help which resulted in a hard copy ticket being couriered to me at no extra charge.
May 13th, 2011, 11:12 PM
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Farrermog, the issue with higher cost tickets (and less choice in schedules) is related to the U.S. Rail Europe site.
For example, when I use TGV-Europe to find a Prems ticket for a direct train from Avignon to Tours 3 months from today, I get a price of 22 Euros ($31 USD) if I indicate that I will pick up the ticket in Canada or Australia or France. But if I say that I am from the US, TGV-Europe sends me to RailEurope.com, where a ticket for the same train on the same date is $83. (The $83 ticket is more flexible than the Prems nonrefundable ticket, but the RE USA site does not even offer the choice of the much cheaper nonrefundable ticket.)
I purchased tickets for this itinerary a few months ago and had no problem printing them at home. And I can print a new one from my confirmation e-mail or my SNCF account if I lose my ticket.
If people compare the prices of point-to-point tickets with railpasses on the RE US site, they may conclude that a pass is comparable. But, as the OP discovered, a railpass is much more expensive than the cost of Prems tickets -- and Prems tickets are only available in the US to people who know to use the TGV or SNCF sites and NOT to say they are collecting the tickets in the US.
For example, when I use TGV-Europe to find a Prems ticket for a direct train from Avignon to Tours 3 months from today, I get a price of 22 Euros ($31 USD) if I indicate that I will pick up the ticket in Canada or Australia or France. But if I say that I am from the US, TGV-Europe sends me to RailEurope.com, where a ticket for the same train on the same date is $83. (The $83 ticket is more flexible than the Prems nonrefundable ticket, but the RE USA site does not even offer the choice of the much cheaper nonrefundable ticket.)
I purchased tickets for this itinerary a few months ago and had no problem printing them at home. And I can print a new one from my confirmation e-mail or my SNCF account if I lose my ticket.
If people compare the prices of point-to-point tickets with railpasses on the RE US site, they may conclude that a pass is comparable. But, as the OP discovered, a railpass is much more expensive than the cost of Prems tickets -- and Prems tickets are only available in the US to people who know to use the TGV or SNCF sites and NOT to say they are collecting the tickets in the US.
May 14th, 2011, 12:12 AM
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ardithl - thanks for the clarification. A case where being relatively affluent and accounting for a small share of the market is not a disadvantage. A small but welcome compensation for the time and money it takes us to get there!
May 22nd, 2011, 02:34 AM
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For clarity:
Rail Europe Inc (raileurope.com, .ca) is a wholly-owned subsidiary of French and Swiss Railways (SNCF & SBB).
On some routes, they charge the official railway price, inflated only very slightly by the exchange rate they use and by postage fees that you can avoid by buying online and doing self-print or collect-at-station.
This modest extra cost may well be justified by having back-up in your home country if anything going wrong, you need a refund,there's a rail strike, whatever.
However, on many routes they deliberately suppress the cheapest prices for the American market, when those three letters at the top of your browser 'www' mean 'World Wide Web' and an American can now (in principle) just as easily buy direct from a European site 4,000 miles away as from a US site 50 miles away. It's only a lack of information that prevents them.
Only last week I checked a Paris-Marseille train on both www.raileurope.com ($130) and www.tgv-europe.com ($63), same train, same date, same parent company! I've seen Paris-Venice for $184 with couchette on raileurope.com, $50 on www.tgv-europe.com.
So caveat emptor!
On www.tgv-europe.com, if you're from the USA, simply select 'Canada' to avoid the search results opening up on raileurope.com, of if you prefer, select 'Afghanistan', it makes no difference as long as it's not the United States. Let's see how long it takes them to wonder why Afghanistan is their biggest customer!
Yes, ticket machines won't work with non-chip-and-PIN credit cards, but this is not a problem, you simply go to the staffed kiosk at any French rail station to pick up your tickets, and many tickets are now self-print anyway.
For the record, Rail Europe 4A (raileurope.com.au, .co.nz, .co.in, .sg, .co.za, etc...) operate in the same way as Rail Europe Inc, but the UK Rail Europe, raileurope.co.uk, does not suppress cheap fares, they are (in principle at least) all shown as per tgv-europe.com, albeit converted into pounds sterling.
Rail Europe Inc (raileurope.com, .ca) is a wholly-owned subsidiary of French and Swiss Railways (SNCF & SBB).
On some routes, they charge the official railway price, inflated only very slightly by the exchange rate they use and by postage fees that you can avoid by buying online and doing self-print or collect-at-station.
This modest extra cost may well be justified by having back-up in your home country if anything going wrong, you need a refund,there's a rail strike, whatever.
However, on many routes they deliberately suppress the cheapest prices for the American market, when those three letters at the top of your browser 'www' mean 'World Wide Web' and an American can now (in principle) just as easily buy direct from a European site 4,000 miles away as from a US site 50 miles away. It's only a lack of information that prevents them.
Only last week I checked a Paris-Marseille train on both www.raileurope.com ($130) and www.tgv-europe.com ($63), same train, same date, same parent company! I've seen Paris-Venice for $184 with couchette on raileurope.com, $50 on www.tgv-europe.com.
So caveat emptor!
On www.tgv-europe.com, if you're from the USA, simply select 'Canada' to avoid the search results opening up on raileurope.com, of if you prefer, select 'Afghanistan', it makes no difference as long as it's not the United States. Let's see how long it takes them to wonder why Afghanistan is their biggest customer!
Yes, ticket machines won't work with non-chip-and-PIN credit cards, but this is not a problem, you simply go to the staffed kiosk at any French rail station to pick up your tickets, and many tickets are now self-print anyway.
For the record, Rail Europe 4A (raileurope.com.au, .co.nz, .co.in, .sg, .co.za, etc...) operate in the same way as Rail Europe Inc, but the UK Rail Europe, raileurope.co.uk, does not suppress cheap fares, they are (in principle at least) all shown as per tgv-europe.com, albeit converted into pounds sterling.
May 22nd, 2011, 02:53 AM
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Have been a bunch just got back.
Pass almost always bed value due to base pass cost per day.
Unless training relentlessly daily folks always lose
lots of supplements surcharges.
so in the future might always just train like a local hop
on regional intercity trains to save a tonne.
Rome to Florence for example 4 euros fro me in April.
Nice ride had an entire compartment to myself.
seat61.com good discussion on the perils of railpass.
Pass almost always bed value due to base pass cost per day.
Unless training relentlessly daily folks always lose
lots of supplements surcharges.
so in the future might always just train like a local hop
on regional intercity trains to save a tonne.
Rome to Florence for example 4 euros fro me in April.
Nice ride had an entire compartment to myself.
seat61.com good discussion on the perils of railpass.
May 22nd, 2011, 05:59 PM
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I am diligently trying to follow your suggestions for the cheapest fares on the TGV website from Paris to Limoges. From what I see the IGTV site ( nice and friendly) goes to Toulouse directly but not stopping in Limoges. Limoges is not included in the dropdown. To use the TGV website, I need more French then I have. If I indicate I'll pick up the ticket in Britain or any other English speaking country it will redirect me and I can't manage to pull up a ticket at the TGV site for Paris to Limoges. Do you have any suggestions? I've read everything I can find on the website for train travel and it is under 4 months ( looking for a one-way out of Paris on Sept 15th).
May 22nd, 2011, 06:05 PM
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There are no iDTGV trains presently serving Limoges. You can still book through the normal SNCF websites but not before June 15th for travel on September 15th.
www.voyages-sncf.com (in French only)
www.tgv-europe.com
www.voyages-sncf.com (in French only)
www.tgv-europe.com
May 22nd, 2011, 06:06 PM
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Use the tgv-europe.com site but indicate that you will pick up the tickets in Canada, not the US. Your transaction will be in English, and you can print the cheapest (Prems) tickets at home. The Prems tickets for September 15 will probably not be available until June 15, but keep checking.
You can sign up for an "alert resa" on the SNCF site to alert you when the Prems tickets go on sale.
Alert your credit card company that you will be making purchases in France.
You can sign up for an "alert resa" on the SNCF site to alert you when the Prems tickets go on sale.
Alert your credit card company that you will be making purchases in France.
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