MmePerdu - there is an over-abundance of Indian couples and families who have astonishingly unrealistic expectations about what they can and can't achieve in their time frame. They come to Italy for five days and want to see Florence, Venice, Pompeii, the Amalfi Coast and Rome. If they had the internet and did a bit of research then they would realise this is completely unrealistic. It appears they do not use the internet. There is also the 'plan my trip' expectation. If you frequent Trip Advisor's forums you'll see exactly what I mean. It's not a stereotype.

Does anyone remember Crazy Family of Four? The writer was a ditzy young woman planning a Europe trip of rapidly changing length to varying destinations all over the place. Her husband, then her mother, then both would accompany her and her two very young children. She and her husband were teachers, I think, and she planned quite an extravaganza, saying that they had their whole lives to pay for it. To start, they missed the plane, lost the cell phone, etc., etc. and were continually buying more luggage as they traveled. I was exhausted just reading the thing!

I remember that one. Her trip worked out in the end. I do think she got a lot of very useful advice here.

Some of the best and most helpful posts are those from people who start off with a laundry list of places to see on an organised tour, and end up with an itinerary that suits them and their budget. There is a lot of expertise here, and people willing to help those who are perhaps traveling abroad for the first time.

I wonder what newcomers or people considering whether to ask a question or not on this Forum think given that they may find themselves ridiculed later?

As someone who is proud to ask daft questions, it may actually be an intelligent thing to do and not lazy at all.

For instance, I now have several books on Hawaii (hoping to go later this year. Would you consider this daft? Why not keep with just one book? My reason is that I enjoy the diverse views of different people.

Now I reckon I am getting to grips with Hawaii but believe me I will be asking a simple daft question: "What should I see when I visit the Big Island?". What I am interested in is not having my own plans validated but where other people would visit and that way undiscovered gems might surface.

This is far from lazy, what is lazy is narrowing the options rather than open your mind to different views - oh and labelling people as lazy for asking apparently daft questions.

I don't think people are ridiculed for asking a question. But if someone just asks 'I am going to London what should I do' without any further information, it's an impossible question to answer. I tend to not anwer those questions at all, but the standard reply to that is to do at least some research first, and let us know what your interests are.

Is het more helpful to the poster not to answer that question at all, and leave him wondering why there are no replies?

in my face-time I often ask daft questions, it seems to be me a great way of discovering stuff that just is not obvious and sometimes it finds a hidden truth.

I see very little ridicule on Fodors. What I do see is people typing quickly and not thinking through how someone in a different culture might not be "on message" with the writer's comments/culture.

Hence we get the annual tipping bean-feast.

What I find is interesting is how, sometimes, stuff gets "snarky" (a word I learned on Fodors), trouble is some people think that disagreeing about how to get say from Florence to Siena or Caen to Rouen is an affront to their man/woman-hood.

Naturally that is what the lounge is for

I do think the Ops who ask a question and just don't come back are rotten-bounders.

'I do think the Ops who ask a question and just don't come back are rotten-bounders. '

I'd like to have a stat on that. Sometimes I tell myself, well I'm waiting for this guy to return to the thread before answering.

And sometimes you have great posters who interact.
And sometimes you find a thread of 25 posts, with none from the OP.

I did once post a thread like 'I'm going to Beijing what should I see'.

I made it humourous saying I was forced to go there by my boss and had no time to plan (my wife does, I never do). It was on TA, where you can see the number of posts of the guy - I thought having several thousands of posts that 'they' would realize I was no troll.

I got shredded to pieces by the 'owner of the the forum' - a canadian guy, and got no help except by PM's from some locals who were nice.

I do think the Fodors format may be responsible for some of the people who don't come back. Every other forum I've ever participated in has an option to get an email when someone responds to your question. I sometimes can't find a Fodors thread that I know I posted in.

As well as lazy travelers, there are lazy travel experts. For every person who asks, "what should I see in Rome?" there are three lazy experts who will rattle off the Vatican Museums, the Colosseum and Trevi Fountain without trying to find out at all whether those things would interest the person asking the question. The Vatican Museums are crammed full of lost souls who are shuffling along shoulder to shoulder with thousands of their fellow victims, looking as though they're spending 50 years in purgatory, one down and 49 to go. Someone told them they had to go there, and the poor obedient ingenues went.

There are also lazy experts who routinely rattle off the same advice over and over, without a thought for the context. Some people, as soon as they see five destinations, without even looking at the amount of time available, respond with something like, "Way too many places, I'm exhausted just looking at your itinerary." Sometimes it's not even true, but even if it is too many places in too little time, there's a less condescending way to get the point across.

Which brings me to the sneering experts, who reassure themselves of their own sophistication by belittling other people.

I think I see a new topic here.

A bit of tongue biting might help. As human beings we are lazy comes easy to us as it is more like hard work thinking carefully how to sensitively put things or to refrain for a while whilst we compose ourselves long enough to respond helpfully.

Interesting books on our frailty: Thinking Fast and Slow. (International Best Seller) and less known: Slow The Art of Procrastination.

I'm not sure that finding the most sensitive way to express something is a realistic expectation on an open travel forum. Not that people should be randomly rude and "snarky" - I word I too have never heard anywhere else but here.

But as long as responders are straightforward and not rude I think that the OPs should be happy to get a response. After all, this is not preschool we are talking about - but adult to adult. So the type of factual response one would get at work is to me a perfectly respectful response. And suggest that people who are very offended by that type of response should strongly consider if they are ready for the vagaries of international travel.

Bvlenci - yes to all of that. I hope someone starts a new topic, now that would be fun!

<I sometimes can't find a Fodors thread that I know I posted in.>

for bvlenci, If you go in thru your own profile page, so you see the list of only the threads you have posted on... easier than trying to find something on a destination forum.

In defence of the 'newbie' OP - I only joined Fodors a year ago, as I found myself learning a great deal from TR's and long threads, and felt it would be good manners to thank people or comment.
But it took a bit of time to get how these forums 'work'.

Now I see how much regular posters contribute and to come back as an OP with thanks and even some feedback after their trip seems the right thing to do. But many newbies are on a site for the first time and as many have noted, clearly haven't read any other posts probably giving all that info anyway and returning to a thread probably doesn't seem necessary when you are unaware of the effort contributors make.

On a personal note, I'm a bit of a planner, so do find it astounding that people might book flights and not have a clear idea of what they'd like to see/ do first, I always wonder if their trips meet their expectations.

My least favourite question. "I have xx days in Xxxx and I want to live like a local, please help me".

This is a fun thread.

I'm with stevelyon: there is rarely a question I've seen that doesn't make sense on some level. I think it was Douglas Adams, the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, who really got that the answer was easy, it was coming up with the correct question that was hard. Why should asking questions be easy? It takes journalists years of experience to become accomplished at interviewing - which is what, in essence, is what someone does when they post: they are interviewing an unknown, unseen group of people for their opinions on travel.

I'm not getting the humour not because I think Whathello is out to be nasty, but just because I can imagine the reasons why people ask the questions they do.

<i> Safe place to stay, close to the main attractions </i>

The starting point for most purchases is to set up a wish list. That the wish list may not be possible to meet, at least not in entirety, doesn't mean that the poster is stupid to use this approach. Me, I would love to get it all and get it for nothing. That I have yet to achieve this has not stopped me trying.

<i> How to go to my hotel ? </i>

I don't find these kinds of questions all that remarkable because I can imagine people attempting to understand the unfamiliar by extrapolating from what IS familiar, i.e. the place in which they live. Thus, if they live in a small city where most of the hotels cluster in a single zone near or in the (as in a single) business district, it is easy for them to assume that a bigger city is the same, just, well, bigger. Their assumption is incorrect, of course, but most of us make assumptions all the time. Such as assume that someone who expresses they don't like public transportation, arrived by a commercial jetliner. Is this known for a fact?

<i> Where can I get a good restaurant ? </i>

If you come from a place like mine, which back a few decades ago boasted maybe all of three restaurants, this is not such a stupid question, as much as it is another example of extrapolating from the familiar, i.e. making an assumption. In any case, not all of us belong to the Sue school of eating out, which is that what doesn't kill one to eat it probably makes one stronger.

<i> Apartment : I found an apartment, is it good ?
I have no rec, don't know where it is, so no review, 3rd floor no lift and owner wants 95% 4 months in advance cash, the rest when I arrive.
I arrive at 3 30 am, wil lthe owner greet me ? </i>

The world of consumer purchasing is much more complex than it used to be, and this is exceptionally true in the world of travel purchases. Plenty of legitimate hotel chains sell rooms on a nonrefundable advance purchase basis, for that matter many airfares are sold on that basis, and often as many months in advance as one makes the reservation. So a demand for advance payment is not necessarily a sign that the transaction is fraudulent. That cash is requested, on the other hand, is a bit of a red flag - but the point is, the poster isn't necessarily lazy or unintelligent, just confused. Since this is likely much of the point of marketing - to keep the consumer in the dark - it shouldn't be surprising when one encounters just such a consumer.



<i> I don't know their laws and will apply the ones in my country of origin, can it cause a problem ? </i>

That they are asking if it can cause a problem already indicates that they are somewhat cognizant that it could, so this doesn't flag this as a stupid question. It more likely flags an anxious poster. People asking about the law, aren't generally people arrogant enough to assume they can ignore local law and get away with it. Plus, if assuming that the law of one's host country holds, means assuming that the most conservative interpretation will prevail, this is likely a smart thing to do. Example: to assume that drug use in Amsterdam is illegal is a far more prudent course of action to take, than to listen to stories from 'experts' that this is not the case.

In sum: I like humour, too, but I like imagining possibilities beyond the stupid, as well.

I have found responses to be both helpful and timely despite the fact that my question may have been asked a thousand times before. I also like to research and try to read previous posts,but sometimes can't find what I'm looking for or the post is several years old and may not have current info. I truly appreciate the help and wealth of advice ( not advise) that is given, but can also appreciate the need to blow off steam and poke fun. We have to be able to laugh at ourselves sometimes don't we? I'm sure I have been guilty of several of your pet peeves, yet you still manage to help me.

One of my all time fave OP questions was something like "Where is the best place to see the 4th of July fireworks in Amsterdam?"

Oh well, at least she didn't ask that question about London.

triangled