MorganB

Kappa, I have lived in France for about 5 years and have spoken French for about 10. I have a good idea of the tone of words now but that said my written French could still use some work. I am much better at speaking French than writing it. Thats why I run everything through the word spell checker before I send it

Internetexplorer: What you sent works perfectly. Let us know what they reply

111op

Caroline, it's not definitive, but I believe the accent is optional on a capital letter.

Also the French way of capitalizing titles is screwed up. Do a web search and you'll see.

kappa

MorganeB, speaking is easier than writing it, usually, the same with me.

Caroline, my answer is far from definitive since I'm not a native but my impression is, it's that accents are not needed to put when a word is written in capital rather than you should not, meaning it's not forbidden even if usually you don't see accents on capital letters. I could well be wrong. Anyone French?

DonTopaz

The accent on a capital letter is not optional in this day and age.

In the days when people used such stuff, many typewriters and linotype systems did not include accented uppercase letters. You could add the accents to lowercase letters -- typists would use a backspace and then over-type the l/c letter with the appropriate diacritical marks. You couldn't do the same thing with uppercase letters, because the diacritical marks would be in the middle of, not above, the letter.

These days, we use computers to do this stuff, and every (Roman-based) computer font family I know of can output Élan just as easily as Elan. To a francophone, Élan looks correct, while Elan looks ignorant, old-fashioned, or both.

111op

Rizzuto, that's a rather strong accusation. Can you post a link to back your assertion up?

I can post a link to back up my assertion:

http://french.about.com/library/pron...on-accents.htm

I quote:

"The only exception to this is capital letters, which are often left unaccented."

It'd be interesting to check today's Le Monde and see what the newspaper does. I just have neither the time, the energy nor the interest to investigate this further.

111op

I'll post another link, just for the fun of it:

http://www.babilnet.com/techniq.html

Quote:

"When writing in capital letters, it is not compulsory to use letters with accents (francophones seldom do so).
For example : événement ---> EVENEMENT or ÉVÉNEMENT."

Would love to see proof to the contrary that accents are compulsory on capital letters.

Christina

I've seen capital letters without accent marks most of the time in France even today, all over the place.

Actually, I don't know that it was necessary for you to write them in French since they wrote you in English very clearly.

They use the term twin for beds or rooms in France, also, in French I've seen it quite a bit (chambres jumelles). You would NOT say "salle jumelle" as salle isn't the term used for a hotel room, but chambre. Since that was the term they used, I don't think any confusion would ensue if you used the same term they used (twin).

I think just saying you want to reverse the twin room would be sufficient.

Michel_Paris

To get into semantics

Je voudrais faire une réservation pour une chambre avec deux lits.
Veuillez m'écrire si cette chambre est disponible

I would modify slightly...
Bonjour,
J'aimerais savoir votre disponibilité de chambre avec deux lits et douche, requise pour les dates suivantes: du 15 septembre au 19 september, sois 4 soirs.
Pourriez-vous m'informer sur ceci ainsi que le prix par chambre? Cordialement,
internetexplorer

Which says...
I would like to know about your availability of rooms with two beds and a shower, required for the following dates: from 15th september to 19 september, for a total of 4 nights. Could you please inform me on this as well as the price per room? Cordially, me...

111op

Reading your note reminds me of reading Taillevent's florid e-mail to me a few years back when they couldn't accommodate my reservation. Mine was simple. Theirs was an essay.

internetexplorer

Christina,
The hotel uses the term 'twin room' on its booking form. That is the only reason I used the term 'twin room' in my original inquiry. I also explained to the hotel my reason for wanting only to book a twin room.

Unfortunately my original request ( in English) for a twin room brought back the following reply( in English) from the hotel:WE ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF YOUR EMAIL WE CAN GREET YOU FOR THIS PERIOD
WITH DOUBLE OR TWIN ROOM WITH BATH OR SHOWER AND WC ( I am not shouting; the all caps are cut and pasted from the hotel's reply. )

That reply is why I needed to reiterate that I was only interested in booking a room that had two beds.
I have since received a reply to the message where I requested ( in French) a room with two beds only,
The reply from the hotel ( in English ) was: We will do our best to give you a twin bed room.

Now I'm back at square one, I don't want to book a room that might have only one bed. I am not being stubborn, I am traveling with a friend and as much as we two women enjoy each other's company while sightseeing or chatting or dinning together, we don't wish to share a bed. ;-)
So I shall just thank the hotel for replying , yet again , and I will keep looking for another hotel with twin rooms.
Michel Paris,
I'm all for semantics, I think I am going to use your translation for Round Two, merci.

Michel_Paris

I find that I need to "torque" up my french when dealing with people in france, compare dealing with to my french confreres in Quebec. Lots of formality... could you please, thank you kindly for your asnwer , excuse me for asking,accept my friendly best wishes,etc...makes it kind of fun.

In your reply from the hotel, it would seem that they are (?) offering you a twin room...when I think of what they would say in french, and then translate into english...I read "We can greet you with a twin room" as them confirming that they have a room with twin bed for your dates, just pick whether you want shower or bath.....
if this is a hotel that you really want to stay at, I would e-mail them back and say thank you, I'll take the room with the shower for that time period and confirm with credit card..

Mike

111op

I guess if you read ie's post again, the hotel has written back that it will do its best to accommodate the two beds, but it didn't guarantee so.

Maybe it's good to explain to them you do need the two beds because a friend won't share a bed and you'll only book if they can guarantee two beds.

internetexplorer

Exactly the case 111op. In their second reply, the hotel told me they would do their best to have a twin room available if I booked the dates I requested.
I did explain in my original inquiry to the hotel that we were two women traveling together and that I would book only a twin room .
As much as I would like to stay at this particular hotel, I believe it is time for me to move on.

111op

Yeah, there're plenty of hotels, unless you're married to this one for some reason. But I don't think that it hurts to write back again. You've nothing to lose anyway. Or explain that you can't take it without the guarantee. If they do guarantee it, then you've saved yourself the trouble from looking for another hotel.

Michel_Paris

Yup, I missed that...so out of curiosity...the question needs to be asked...if you did say Ok to this hotel...you show up..they have no room...but they did their best??!!! Does any one have personal experience on what the scoop is here? If you were to say OK to that condition, would they not ask for a deposit, or is it really first come first serve (who's that knocking at my door...oh, someone for room 14 I wonder if part of this is people taking rooms but changing their minds? I wonder if is them being conservative in thinking...we have a room today, but because travelers sometimes take a while to make up their minds, we don't want to give then a guarantee until they are ready to make a deposit, since we may get many other requests for rooms, between this traveler original demand and their offering a deposit...interesting..

internetexplorer

Michel_Paris,
I'm not understanding your comments.
I did not demand anything of the hotel. I used their online booking form to inquire about availability for a specific type of room on a specific date.
The booking form had a comment box and in that box I wrote:
Bonjour,
I am inquiring about a twin room only as we will be two women
traveling together. We do not wish to share a bed.
Thank you.

The hotel emailed there was a double OR a twin room available and asked me to confirm the reservation with my credit card information.
I replied :
"Bonjour,
Thank you for your reply.
I am interested in booking Hotel _______ on the dates specified but before I send credit card information I wish to confirm that a room with two beds is available.
Unfortunately,my French is very poor, but I want to be sure that the room I book has two beds .
Je voudrais faire une reservation pour une chambre avec deux lits.
Veuillez m'écrire si cette chambre est disponible.
Merci."

The hotel emailed back: "We will do our best to give you a twin bed room
WOULD YOU PLEASE CONFIRM BY E.MAIL OR FAX WITH TIME OF ARRIVAL AN CREDIT
CARD NUMBER"


And my final reply to the hotel was:
"Bonsoir,
Thank you once again for responding to my inquiry.
Sadly, as much as I would like to stay in your charming hotel, I cannot book unless a room with two beds can be guaranteed .
I will be traveling with another woman and we do not wish to share one bed. "

At no time was there a demand for the hotel to hold a room for me .
It would have been pointless for me to book a room if it were one that I could not use when I arrived and I did not wish for the hotel to have tied up a double room that someone else could have booked.

Michel_Paris

Hi internetexplorer,
My english..it is bad, yes?
What I'm trying to figure out, via your experience, is why hotels would not say: Yes, we have one avialable, room #14, please send a credit card confirmation number before within 5 days or we will release it to somebody else. What my garbled thoughts were...perhaps the hotel gets many e-mail requests but they don't want to say to someone...of course we have room #14 we'll save it for you, please send a credit card confirmation ....meanwhile, the tourist (via Fodors of course) finds a better hotel and doesn't let hotel know, so the hotel guys wait and wait...getting other requests for the room...wait...
That's what my fuzzy mind was trying to figure out

internetexplorer

Hi Michel_Paris.
On the contrary your English is very good.

I have had one more reply from the hotel.
Here is what they told me: "There is no way we can confirm that you will get for sure a twin bedded room sorry.
PLease confirm if you do not require the room anymoore.
Best regards"

I am surprised, too, that a hotel would not be able to look at its bookings and know definitively what type rooms are available on a particular set of days.
But then again I am not a hotelier. I am sure they do experience the scenario you mentioned of people booking and then changing their minds.
However, I did think I was clear to them in my emails, I would have booked immediately had they been able to confirm a twin room.
So now what does the hotel say to the next person who needs to book a twin room and only a twin room? Are they hoping to take those bookings and then when the people show up to check in just tell then that the room configeration they need is not available? That leaves people with no place to stay at the last minute.
Curious, indeed.

111op

Obviously, I don't run a hotel either, but if the hotel is small, then it's probably to its advantage not to guarantee any sort of room. That way, it's easy to juggle various obligations as the need arises.

Anyway, at least you and the hotel are both being honest and clear about what you can do. It will be interesting to see if another hotel will actually be able guarantee a room with two beds. I know that I've had situations when I've booked hotels online and indicated bed preferences and not have them met. It was never a big deal for me though so I never really made a fuss.

internetexplorer

Yes, the hotel and I were honest with each other.
If I were traveling solo or with my husband then the bed configuration would not have been as much an issue, one can usually push beds together if needs be.
However, since I'm traveling with a another woman, the sleeping arrangements are a prime factor in booking a room.