Pauley

Perhaps I will just skip Paris this time and instead plan to travel to Jerusalem next month during the holy season where it is probably a little safer.

Incidentally, a friend of mine just returned from Denmark yesterday and apparently there are similar riots in Arhaus, their second largest city.

Crazy world, I'll tell ya!

skaf

to think that someone will consider my country (Israel) safer than Paris....
unbelievable, Crazy world indeed !

lmhornet

, i don't think there is enough knowledge of the issue to espouse these theories of how the rioting in france is related to government, cultural, economic policies of countries thousands of miles away from france."

"to me, this is an issue of french citizens and residents rioting out of frustration for various problems within their community in france...not disimilar to the LA riots."

What a hypocrit, First you claim that no one should drrw a judgment and then you do. The fact is that they probably are something like the LA riots. It is at least partly about a racial/etnic minority disaffection. It is partly about a bunch of juvenile deliquents going on a rampage, the same as some do after a superbowl. You don't need to intimately know the situation to figure this much out.

The idea that no one should draw and conclusions because they don't know enough is absurd - you even do it yourself.

Budman

"Police Find Bomb-Making Factory in Paris.
Police found a gasoline bomb-making factory in a southern suburb of the city, with more than 100 bottles, gallons of fuel and hoods for hiding rioters' faces, a senior Justice Ministry official said Sunday."

As much as they are trying to avoid, they are now going to have to deal with terrorism.

"On Friday night, 900 vehicles were torched across France in the worst wave of arson since the urban unrest began."

<b>Houston, we have a problem.</b>

Marie007

To Author: AnthonyGA and Walkinaround

Bonjour,

I haven't had the time to read all the posts written in this thread, being quite busy at my high school, located in Rouen where there have been no riots so far. The bus which was burnt down was situated in Cl&eacute;on which is located close to Elbeuf, around 25 km from Rouen.

I wanted to thank both of you, Anthony and Walkinaround, for your objective view of the situation which is far from being easy and remains complex, even for the French, themselves...

I just also wanted to say that one must be careful when watching TV channels such as CNN or... muslim channels such as... Al Jazeera... The media, as usual, are taking advantage of the situation to frighten people... In France, our own TV channels are not as objective as they should to be... The kind of competition between De Villepin and Sarkozy which is emphasized in the news doesn't make things easier...

As a teacher teaching in a high school where a certain number of students' parents are from &quot;le Maghreb&quot;/Northern Africa, I'll simply say that most of our students' parents want to lead a peaceful life in France and most of our students are keen on succeeding in their studies because they know it's the best way to become assimilated in the French society. Being able to find a job and earn one's life is their objective... Most of my students whose parents and grandparents are from Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, etc. are nice and serious students.

I'll add that one must not confuse a handful of gangsters (who prefer not to see the police entering the inner-cities where they earn lots of &quot;dirty&quot; money thanks to all kinds of trafficking, among which, drug trafficking and try to manipulate youths who are not conscious of the seriousness of their reprehensible acts...) with the majority of French people whose family originates from Northern Africa who are peaceful and honest people... Cordialement. Marie

Spygirl

You're right Imhornet, that's EXACTLY what Walk did in his post- which shows that there are some people who do critically think through what people are actually posting on these threads!

ira

&gt;...First you claim that no one should drrw a judgment and then you do. &lt;

Poor IM, so quick to attack, so slow to think.

If you reread the quotes in your post, you will see that they refer to two different observations.

cocofromdijon

Bravo Marie you said exactly what I couldn't write properly in English.
same thing in Dijon.

viaggio_sempre

My wife says that it is just like the rogue elephants. The dominant male elephant gets the herd and the young males are driven out. They wander around angry and alone, causing trouble.

Pauley

Marie said, &quot;manipulate(d) youths who are not conscious of the seriousness of their reprehensible acts&quot;

If that is true, France has some serious problems well beyond the current strife. In a civilized democracy, society must be guided by the rule of law and not vigilante intimidation. If these &quot;misguided&quot; youths take their &quot;unrest&quot; to other parts of Paris, things will probably get even uglier. Very sad, all in all.

seafox

Since this is a travel site rather than a political forum, lets get back to the essential question of how safe is it to be in Paris as a traveler. I leave for Paris on Friday and will be staying in the 1st. I'll post some insight a few days after arrival. My guess is that in the central city it will be busines as usual....I can't recall any trip to Paris without demonstrations and an occaisonal outburts.... we shall see....

platzman

Is there a possibility that this civil unrest could spread not only throughout France, but also to adjacent countries?

clevelandbrown

I read many newspapers, trying to get a balanced view. One interesting item I read was a distillation of interviews of those actually doing the rioting, and their neighbors. Interestingly, while I am sure poverty has some bearing on the situation, none of the rioters spoke of poverty or unemployment. Their complaint was conflict in their lives between their religion, which requires abstinence and restraint, and their being French, with French culture almost requiring drinking and license. They agreed that only a small minority of their community was active in the rioting, but apparently they are having a large effect because they are very mobile and have good communications (cell phones and text messaging).

Their stated objective was to get the French government to listen to them and address the problems in their communities; unfortunately, the French government is perceived as doing nothing more than insulting them.

If their objective is really to get the attention of the government, I would suspect they are smart enough to realize that they can get more attention by bringing their tactics to higher profile areas, such as places where we tourists congregate, than by confining their activities to their own and neighboring communities.

Thus, I would be very concerned about visiting Paris, perhaps even other parts of France, at this time. Regardless of the cause of the rioters' behavior, they have demonstrated a cold, cruel lack of concern for other people, and that can lead to tragedy for the innocent.

Christina

From what I read in the French news, the events inside Paris proper (last night?) happened in the 17th arrondisement, where I think there is a large African immigrant population.

Platzman -- you should maybe read a better newspaper if yours hasn't even mentioned it, or at least read a good national newspaper in addition to your local one. My paper (Washington Post) has had articles on this virtually every day. I've been a little surprised that they've had so many reports on NPR about it, also, in their news -- several times a day. I really like their Parisian reporter, Eleanor Beardsley.

A good friend of mine is a journalist and cinematographer and he told me this morning that he's going to Paris tomorrow for a least a week to cover this. I asked him to email me to let me know what it's like there and what's going on and if he's okay, but he may be too busy.

Graziella5b

Only last night they burned over 1300 cars, numerous buildings including schools, people have died burnt inside burning buses, dozen and dozens of buses have been burnt too, an ambulance has been cowardly attack while trying to help some one hurt......
I wonder are these people the only unemployed in France?

GalavantingReprobate

Platzman wonders:
&lt;&lt;&lt;
Is there a possibility that this civil unrest could spread not only throughout France, but also to adjacent countries?
&gt;&gt;&gt;

Not only a possibility, this is a reality. There have been similar actions in Denmark, England and Sweden. Belgium and Holland have their share of similar problems of an unassimillated bunch of angry young male radicalized followers of a certain religion.
With regard to France's particular problem, Mr Chirac said that the situation should be dealt with 'with caution and respect'....which pretty much guarantees more riots since this is obviously the path to more respect.
As to the general danger or lack of it, I personally would avoid France after hearing about the handicapped lady who was doused with petrol and set alight and killed. This is no mild 'disturbance' and things will get worse before they get better, not just in France but most of Europe.
Someday, civilized people will wake up and realize what is happening.

JeanneB

Christina, the accounts I've read cited cars burned &quot;near Place de la Republique&quot; and/or &quot;near Gare du Nord&quot;. I haven't seen the 17 ere cited anywhere.

I hope you do get first hand reports from your reporter friend and can keep us posted. Thanks.

ira

&gt;Their complaint was conflict in their lives between their religion, which requires abstinence and restraint, and their being French, with French culture almost requiring drinking and license. &lt;

Does this sound familiar?

cruiseluv

&gt;&gt;Their complaint was conflict in their lives between their religion, which requires abstinence and restraint, and their being French, with French culture almost requiring drinking and license. &lt;

Does this sound familiar?&lt;&lt;

Yes.... Isn't it something Mohammed Atta said?

Pauley

Good news! President Chirac is giving a television address to discuss the situation in its tenth day. Apparently, he must have read about it in the Washington Post.