Paris Rioting
Nov 6th, 2005, 03:07 PM
#121
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Nov 6th, 2005, 03:55 PM
#123
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I'm not going to go into our personal opinions on the rioters. However, I do have a travel-related note.
We've been seeing on the news reports of the violence in Aulnay sous Bois. The name kept buzzing in my head...Aulnay sous Bois, Aulnay sous Bois...and then we remembered that we spent two nights at the Novotel/Ibis there a few years ago; you will find that hotel and others in the vicinity frequently listed as CdG area hotels on discount hotel sites (and it pops up on the Novotel site if you type in "Roissy" aka CDG).
Even back then, the place creeped us out. The stairs to the nearby RER station were covered in LARGE blood stains (and I know the difference between blood and paint); almost nobody was willing to leave the RER station alone after dark. For any hotel guests there now, it must be a pretty scary experience--I know we couldn't wait to get out of there.
Anyway, it's something to keep in mind for people wanting cheap airport hotels. Most hotel web sites are fairly liberal with their definition of what's near the airport. If the hotel isn't AT the airport, get some info on the area. 99% of the time, you probably have nothing to worry about, but the current events show you can't be too careful.
We've been seeing on the news reports of the violence in Aulnay sous Bois. The name kept buzzing in my head...Aulnay sous Bois, Aulnay sous Bois...and then we remembered that we spent two nights at the Novotel/Ibis there a few years ago; you will find that hotel and others in the vicinity frequently listed as CdG area hotels on discount hotel sites (and it pops up on the Novotel site if you type in "Roissy" aka CDG).
Even back then, the place creeped us out. The stairs to the nearby RER station were covered in LARGE blood stains (and I know the difference between blood and paint); almost nobody was willing to leave the RER station alone after dark. For any hotel guests there now, it must be a pretty scary experience--I know we couldn't wait to get out of there.
Anyway, it's something to keep in mind for people wanting cheap airport hotels. Most hotel web sites are fairly liberal with their definition of what's near the airport. If the hotel isn't AT the airport, get some info on the area. 99% of the time, you probably have nothing to worry about, but the current events show you can't be too careful.
Nov 6th, 2005, 04:38 PM
#124
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After wrestling with myself all day, I decided not to take my much-anticipated trip to Paris, scheduled for tomorrow. I just didn't want to put myself in harm's way, nor worry my kids and parents. I'm happily off to Rome tomorrow - spent the day on the phone cancelling and making reservations. I feel awful about what's happening in France, and sad/angry at France's gross mishandling of its immigrant populations.
Nov 6th, 2005, 04:52 PM
#125
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The Figaro reports that the disabled woman set afire suffered third degree burns but was not killed as stated by GalavantingReprobate.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/societe/20051105.FIG0004.html
This is the most disturbing incident I've heard so far, yet I can't find mention of it anywhere else...
http://www.lefigaro.fr/societe/20051105.FIG0004.html
This is the most disturbing incident I've heard so far, yet I can't find mention of it anywhere else...
Nov 6th, 2005, 06:14 PM
#126
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For what it's worth, the headmaster of my daughter's American school in Rennes e-mailed today to say that 31 cars were burned there over the weekend. I called my daughter to check on her today and she had not heard one word about any rioting! She doesn't watch TV, but I was surprised that her French family had not mentioned it either. She will hear about it shortly, however, when the head of her school tells all the students about it in the morning. He is banning all independent travel to Paris for the time being.
Nov 6th, 2005, 06:28 PM
#127
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Pamplem...., I read about the poor woman a couple of days ago in the Italian paper..The Bus driver save the poor thing,from a horrible death.
Before the incident she was talking with her daughters, her wireless was still on when the hodlums doused her with gasoline and set her on fire.. her family could hear her screamings: I am burning, I am burning..
Before the incident she was talking with her daughters, her wireless was still on when the hodlums doused her with gasoline and set her on fire.. her family could hear her screamings: I am burning, I am burning..
Nov 6th, 2005, 06:40 PM
#128
Nov 7th, 2005, 12:01 AM
#130
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Hi Nikki and you all <When you say the posters are largely girls, what age range are you talking about?>
I would say from 16 to 50 or more.(they sometime mention it in their profile) I should have said women perhaps.
have a nice day
corinne
I would say from 16 to 50 or more.(they sometime mention it in their profile) I should have said women perhaps.
have a nice day
corinne
Nov 7th, 2005, 05:09 AM
#131
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Nov 7th, 2005, 05:24 AM
#132
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well....violence has spread to 300 towns with last night being the worst yet.
And the burned lady did not die, thankfully, but a man died of his wounds from being beaten earlier in the week last night.
Cars burned in Berlin and Belgium as well.
And still I see posts saying 'the disturbances wont be anywhere near Paris, you won't notice a thing'. Oh please, the whole govenrment has cancelled its plans and is dealing with (or not dealing with) this matter exclusively. And the only one of them who has a clue, Mr Sarkozy, is being villified.
As I said earlier, its gonna get worse before it gets better.
And the burned lady did not die, thankfully, but a man died of his wounds from being beaten earlier in the week last night.
Cars burned in Berlin and Belgium as well.
And still I see posts saying 'the disturbances wont be anywhere near Paris, you won't notice a thing'. Oh please, the whole govenrment has cancelled its plans and is dealing with (or not dealing with) this matter exclusively. And the only one of them who has a clue, Mr Sarkozy, is being villified.
As I said earlier, its gonna get worse before it gets better.
Nov 7th, 2005, 06:53 AM
#133
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Sorry Reprobate-but Sarkozy calling the rioters "scum" IS a large part of the problem-in fact, his comments may well have been causal in escalating the violence.
And wrong, the unrest is NOT in central Paris-there were some car burnings around Republique, but the rioting is NOT there.
I will be at the French Embassy tonight for a reception-it will be interesting to see what the diplomats have to say, if anything. I know I certainly intend to make mention of it.
And wrong, the unrest is NOT in central Paris-there were some car burnings around Republique, but the rioting is NOT there.
I will be at the French Embassy tonight for a reception-it will be interesting to see what the diplomats have to say, if anything. I know I certainly intend to make mention of it.
Nov 7th, 2005, 07:34 AM
#134
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Sorry Spygirl, but you seem to be hiding under your rose-colored spyglasses. If they are already burning cars in Republique, how long do you think it will be before they burn buses and/or set people on fire around there and the rest of central Paris? These riots are certainly spreading into the provincial towns according to news reports that I have read.
Furthermore, SCUM seems a rather apropos word for these hoodlums, soon murderers may be added - after some beat that poor man into a coma. I am sickened by what happened to that poor woman on crutches. What is your suggestion, Spygirl, besides just ignoring the whole thing??
Furthermore, SCUM seems a rather apropos word for these hoodlums, soon murderers may be added - after some beat that poor man into a coma. I am sickened by what happened to that poor woman on crutches. What is your suggestion, Spygirl, besides just ignoring the whole thing??
Nov 7th, 2005, 07:46 AM
#135
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Rioting in Paris suburbs? A concern, but not a cause for alarm.
Several days/nights of it in a row, spreading out to other metro area? A cause for more serious concern, but still not a cause for alarm (for me, anyway).
Organized disturbances in 300 cities, with fatalities, and possibly spreading to other countries now?
Color me alarmed.
Several days/nights of it in a row, spreading out to other metro area? A cause for more serious concern, but still not a cause for alarm (for me, anyway).
Organized disturbances in 300 cities, with fatalities, and possibly spreading to other countries now?
Color me alarmed.
Nov 7th, 2005, 07:55 AM
#136
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calm down sue4 no need to jump on the racist band wagon just yet LOL. If you are only responding to this issue today chances are you are now learning about this issue as national american news has just picked it up as a news worthy story. If you were watching BBC or French News 2 you would have been tracking the issues around this story from the summer at least if not longer.
So funny how the racist crawl out of the wood work on something like this. If you were even following French news over the past month you could see French government throwing African immigrants on the street because it was cheaper than replacing or more importantly easier than dealing with the EMBARRASSMENT of fire trap housing set up for the poor.
Many of the youths in the riots though are second and third generation youths that are being shut out of the work force, this is an issue of discrimination that goes back decades in France.
When I lived in London in the 1980's the BBC had documentaries on about murders of Arab youths by policeman that went uninvestigated FREQUENTLY.
James Baldwin Likened the treatment of Arabs in Paris to what African American's were experiencing in the U.S in the 1960's.
Long story short Sue4 learn a bit more before sizing up something you know nothing about. Just a good rule to consider what ever you are looking at in life.
So funny how the racist crawl out of the wood work on something like this. If you were even following French news over the past month you could see French government throwing African immigrants on the street because it was cheaper than replacing or more importantly easier than dealing with the EMBARRASSMENT of fire trap housing set up for the poor.
Many of the youths in the riots though are second and third generation youths that are being shut out of the work force, this is an issue of discrimination that goes back decades in France.
When I lived in London in the 1980's the BBC had documentaries on about murders of Arab youths by policeman that went uninvestigated FREQUENTLY.
James Baldwin Likened the treatment of Arabs in Paris to what African American's were experiencing in the U.S in the 1960's.
Long story short Sue4 learn a bit more before sizing up something you know nothing about. Just a good rule to consider what ever you are looking at in life.
Nov 7th, 2005, 08:00 AM
#137
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Sarkozy made his comments well AFTER the rioting started. To blame him for this is just wrong and amounts to apologizing for the rioters. What is interesting is the bias of the French press in trying to destroy Sarkozy over this, when in fact he is the only one who seems to know what needs to be done. Villepan and Chirac are calling for 'negotiations and respect', pretty much guaranteeing more of the same.
the equasion beeing Violence, mayhem = respect and more money.
And doesnt it sound a bit strange that these 'impoverished youths' are using computers and cellphones to coordinate this? I don't buy it and people like Spygirl don't get it. May as well surrender now and avoid the fuss. It is quite clear the police and/or army will do nothing to impose order.
Kiss your beloved tourist trade bye bye.
the equasion beeing Violence, mayhem = respect and more money.
And doesnt it sound a bit strange that these 'impoverished youths' are using computers and cellphones to coordinate this? I don't buy it and people like Spygirl don't get it. May as well surrender now and avoid the fuss. It is quite clear the police and/or army will do nothing to impose order.
Kiss your beloved tourist trade bye bye.
Nov 7th, 2005, 08:05 AM
#139
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oh- and another thing -
Sarkozy's comments were in the context of a conversation with a perplexed resident of the area who used the 'bad' terms; Sarkozy was repeating her words back to her, as any empathetic politician is trained to do. But the French press doesn't deal in context, they saw an opening to do Chirac's bidding to make Sarkozy look bad.
Imagine that, politicians more worried about tearing down rivals than keeping their own country whole and secure. Sounds familiar to these American ears.
Sarkozy's comments were in the context of a conversation with a perplexed resident of the area who used the 'bad' terms; Sarkozy was repeating her words back to her, as any empathetic politician is trained to do. But the French press doesn't deal in context, they saw an opening to do Chirac's bidding to make Sarkozy look bad.
Imagine that, politicians more worried about tearing down rivals than keeping their own country whole and secure. Sounds familiar to these American ears.
Nov 7th, 2005, 08:07 AM
#140
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Can somebody explain to me what is racist about pointing out/ identifying who is doing the rioting?
Chirac and Villepein are so over their heads is not even funny. They think that going out once a day and spousing some namby pamby " we wont stand for this" or the like will have any effect on these thugs.
And I agree, they can't be that "impoverished" to be able to ride on motorcycles with cell phones and computers helping them trace the best routes to avoid/ attack the police.
Chirac and Villepein are so over their heads is not even funny. They think that going out once a day and spousing some namby pamby " we wont stand for this" or the like will have any effect on these thugs.
And I agree, they can't be that "impoverished" to be able to ride on motorcycles with cell phones and computers helping them trace the best routes to avoid/ attack the police.
