My wife and I are trying to solve a dilemna I'll bet more than a few Fodorites have dealt with.

Mom passed away this past summer after a long illness, and Dad wants to go to Paris to recapture some memories from a visit there decades ago that he earned for winning a sales contest. He went on a "top-drawer" tour, stayed at the Grand Hotel, and saw all the standard tourist sights.

The "kids" -- my wife and I -- are DIY travellers who plan well and adapt to fit the weather, mood, or other vagaries of the trip. We've stayed in a very nice Paris apartment a couple times (see my reports in this forum), and we always eat well and don't worry about spending a few euros to maximize our pleasure.

Dad doesn't want to go to Paris on his own, even with a tour. He suggested we three go together because we all love Paris, and he'll pay for everything.

We said the trip sounded like it could be fun and suggested we could book a really nice apartment, plan a leisurely schedule to visit his favorite sights (and ours), and have some great food and wine.

He said "You know, why don't we just book a tour? That way you have a hotel to come home to every night, and they can make sure you get into the places you want."

We smiled: "Ya' know Dad, we'll have a beautiful and roomy apartment to come home to every night, and we'll take care of getting us into any place you want."

Well, Dad is someone who "knows best", and he's never travelled (other than to Reno by car), and he swallows all the promotional pitches of tour operators. He's absolutely convinced that my wife and I can't come close to what a tour would provide.

My wife and I cringe at the thought of schlepping around with 20 or 40 people on a fixed schedule at a predetermined pace, instead of the three of us free to go when and where we want, stay or leave, spend or save, walk or ride, etc. I mean we've already done this in Paris, and it's very easy to set whatever pace you want and get into any of the sights. We would certainly walk much less and move at a slower pace for this trip. (Dad is relatively healthy and walks fine.)

Dad's willingness to pay for the trip is nice, but not necessary for my wife and I; and we'd gladly pay our own way to have a trip we could enjoy much more than a tour.

We suggested he book a tour for himself with plenty of open time, and we stay at an apartment, and then we could interleave some of our activities. No dice -- he doesn't want to be "solo" for that much time.

So, our next "bright idea" is to see if we can line up a few _local_ guides or small-group tours, e.g., to the Louvre or Versailles. That way he might feel comfortable that we would have someone who actually knows what they're doing <g> usher us around. We know that might be more expensive, but my wife and I could actually enjoy that type of activity and can afford it.

BTW, I've looked at "Go Ahead Tours" which are pretty close to what we have in mind. We might use them, but I think we can do just as well on airfares and lodging, if we can arrange some tours like they offer.

Well, we're open to both travel and personal advice. We'd especially like suggestions for any local guides or small-group tours in Paris.

Thanks!

-- Paul

Oh my--you have a real dilemma. Would your father be receptive to hiring a private guide for part of the time, not just for museum-going?

Since you mentioned 'Go Today', what if you somewhat compromised by using them to book a package/hotel as close to what you would do on your own, just to satisfy Dad that you've booked a 'tour'..?

There are any number of packaged sightseeing tours - you could schedule a few of those to please Dad and leave some days open to please yourselves.

Also, many people here have used a personal guide (Michael Osman) for a day or 1/2 day customized visit.

There are also the 'Paris Walks' where you just show up at the appointed time/place and pay then. About 10€ for a 1-2hr walk with information from the guide.

www.parisvision.com/
http://www.graylineparis.com/
ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pariswalking/

Michael Osman
Website: www.geocities.com/parisfinder/
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What if you print out some of the recent trip reports that discuss the apartments that were rented?
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My Dad does these 'memory lane' jaunts usually on either their wedding anniversary or during the week of the anniversary of Mom's passing (2000). He seems to get a lot of pleasure out of it.

Your Dad probably won't go to Paris again, but you always can...Hopefully, you can help him grow a bit and everyone can enjoy themselves.

Hi
Here's my interpretation.
Dad went a on a tour to Paris decades ago and had a wonderful time. He wants to recapture it, and have it all go perfectly well. Plus, you two are only "kids", and how could you possibly know more than Dad does, or more than a tour operator does? After all, those tour people are professionals!
The fact that you are experienced travelers hasn't registered with him.

Also, maybe he really wants (good) hotels because he doesn't want to in his mind rough it or have to worry about meals,or share a bathroom in a flat, or share a television,or see each other in pajamas, or whatever his concerns are.

I suggest a compromise along the lines of the way you've been thinking.
Present this as a 'tour' in whatever way is diplomatic, and sorta truthful.
Book good hotels, skip the apartment this time. If the air-hotel package with Go Ahead works out, then book that through them or another group, making sure the hotels get good reviews here or at tripadvisor.

Then, as you said, book some private walking tours. Here are some:
Museum guide: Ellen McBreen, native of USA. Tour groups for max of 4 people. No waiting in admission lines. www.parismuse.com Pay cash, or by credit card in advance.

Paris Personalized: All walks are private, half or full day. Can also provide cars with drivers for daytrips. www.parispersonalized.com cash only

Paris Walks: Licensed guides, tours are approx 2 hours each. Just show up, or reserve a private tour. www.paris-walks.com

www.contextparis.com Related to Context Rome/Scala Reale, an excellent walking tour organization. Pricey, but their docents are all art/history/architecture scholars who also know how to entertain.

Another guide, Michael Osman, is one person who is well-reviewed here by Fodorites. He can be a little hard to reach (that was my experience) but if he comes through in time, I think he would be a good bet. I don't have his email address but you can search here on his name.

Best of luck.

My parents are the same way. They travel far and wide, taking a couple of international trips every year. And as much as I've tried to talk them into going somewhere with me in the DIY fashion, they always invite me to join them on one of their tours and politely decline my plans. Your Dad is probably just not going to be comfortable if he doesn't do it on a tour.

The big question is, do you want the experience of Paris with your Dad: or to see Paris and wouldn't it be nice if we could take Dad? If it's the former, I suggest you do it his way. You'll have plenty of chances to do it your way later.

Are extended tours of Paris even offered? I've never been on a tour, but I always thought that they covered lots of ground, giving a quick overview of many places.

Again, I've never done this, but what about a barge trip that begins or ends in Paris?

Not sure if I can help with the Dad problem - sounds as though he's pretty much set in his thinking - but an absolutely fabulous guide for Paris and other nearby attractions is Véronique Gain ([email protected]).

Good luck!

Is he a numbers type person? Perhaps if you found out what he'd like to see (e.g. Louvre), and subsequently inquired of a couple tours how long they spent at such venues (time at Louvre), he could see how regimented and superficial the tours are.

I think Elaine has it right -- he had a great time on a tour and remembers that, and wants to recreate it. He also is probably trying to be helpful and make a wonderful time. It sounds like he definitely wants to be with family, not with some tour group. Some people who've never traveled much do think that way, they think you must have a tour. I don't understand why you say he's never traveled anywhere except to Reno, but I think you said he went to Paris on a tour when he was younger (?).

My mother traveled quite a bit for folks in her age bracket and for her background, but she had the same ideas--when my niece was going to Paris for a long weekend from London where she was going to school, my mother was worried that she wouldn't know what to do. She couldn't exactly imagine that people can go to a city and have a guidebook and sort of get around by themselves and look at things. She thought she would have to find a tour when she was there to see Paris.

Anyway, I'd suggest you consider some of the day trip tours, they could satisfy him that you will have things planned and that things are being taken care of. Look at www.parisvision.com and www.cityrama.com

If you've been to Paris a couple times and even rented an apt., not just hotel, I am surprised that he would think you don't know how to make a hotel reservation or whatever.

I think you are maybe being a little stubborn or not understanding of his feelings by insisting you stay in an apt. on your own, though, if he is more comfortable with the idea of a regular hotel. I'm not sure how long this trip is, but if he would be happy in a hotel because it seems more normal to him and predictable, and one with a concierge, plus a couple day bus tours, it might work. I'd just make sure you each have your own hotel room, of course.

You've received lots of good advice. My guess is that no matter what, your Dad will not be happy unless you take a tour. Even IF you did talk him into a DIY he would probably be nervous or upset the whole time waiting for a disaster/SNAFU to happen.

And all the locally arranged walking tours and day guides will not be the same thing as a "Professional" tour.

If it were me - I'd just bite the bullet and take a tour w/ him. It sure would not be my preference - and it will definitely cost more than DIY. But as someone else said - you will be able to go back some day on your own but your Dad probably won't.

Just help him pick a good tour company that has a good balance of arranged touring and some time on your own.

Most tour operators have a "city break" package deal that includes
- air
- hotel
- 1/2 day city tour
- maybe some other optional tours
- a resource

My return visit to Paris was with a Trafalgar "Paris Week" package, then we added on 3 days (total 12 days). That met my comfort level and we did book our own hotel for the 3 days, and we did do all of our own sightseeing other than the 'tour's' city overview and trip to Versailles.

Now we stay at a lower-end hotel, book our own air, plan all of our own sightseeing and transportation, etc. But that was a fine way to 'get over it'.

Trafalgar, Globus, Go Ahead Vacations - all reputable firms.

Well I must say it is a dilemma. Your Dad sounds pretty set in his ways, but I must say I am impressed that he wants to go. I cannot imagine my Dad wanting to go to Europe ever. I just wanted to add my 2 cents on having a private guide. We used Michael Osman and I did book him at least 3 months in advance. It was money well spent. My husband and I enjoyed him so much as a guide who lives in Paris full time but also as a person. I felt like I was touring the city with a new friend. I know he told us that he has had some clients in the past that booked him for consecutive days becuase they wanted a personal private guide. Anyway,I cannot sing the praises of this guy enough. I felt that the day we spent with him was the highlight of our whole trip.

We had a very similar dillema, DH and I are Do-It-Yourselfers, and my in-laws have NEVER gone anywhere without a tour guide.

We booked hotels for everybody (we had a party of 6 go to Paris last month), and Mother-in-Law started suggesting tours. Thankfully, without hesitation, my husband told his mother a firm but nice "NO."

Please don't get talked into a tour if you're a do-it-yourself kinda person. You'll end up like I did in Rio de Janeiro, taking the bus to the hotel, then ditching the group at all costs, and doing my own thing anyway. What a waste of money.

If your dad wants some structure, you can give it to him in the form of a detailed itinerary he can either follow or ignore.

Good luck with your planning...

Jules

Go Ahead and Go Today are two different companies. Go Ahead does tours (flights, hotels, meals, sightseeing) and Go Today is more hotel/flight packages.

It sounds like your Dad is interested in meeting other people by doing the tour group but not ready to risk it on his own yet. If it's Paris only, I don't see any harm in booking the tour. You and your wife could skip all the parts you don't want to do(meals, etc.). Most of Go Ahead's tours give every other day as a free day anyway.

jules4je7: >>Thankfully, without hesitation, my husband told his mother a firm but nice "NO."

Please don't get talked into a tour if you're a do-it-yourself kinda person.<<

Normally I'd agree w/ you -- EXCEPT that pconte's father is paying for the whole trip for all three of them. Not very gracious to have a "take it or leave it" attitude to such a generous offer. If Dad wants to pay for it I'd say he has the most say so. It would not be the choice of most of us. But if my parents wanted to go, wanted to pay, and ONLY would go if it was on a tour -- then a tour it would be.

IMHO it would be more important to let Dad treat and have the trip of <b>His</b> dreams than have my own way.

And don't forget that Dad's wife recently passed away after a long illness. This might be a nice time to do him a favor and go along with his plans (or not go at all).

My last post wasn't very clear. What I meant by &quot;(or not go at all)&quot; wasn't that it would be doing Dad a favor if the OP &amp; wife didn't go. I meant that if they really couldn't stand to go along with his plans as a treat for him, perhaps they shouldn't go at all, rather than turning it into a family dispute at this time in his life.

I may be wrong, but I think your father feels very lonely. He is trying to find a way to feel good again. He believes that by recapturing his happy past he will feel better. Obviously, he wants to go with you because you are the one person he trusts and reminds him of his wife.

I think you have two choices: go with your father and have a vacation your way (maybe adding some tours here and there). Of, course you are hoping that he will enjoy it.

Or, do as much as you can for your father and help him through a rough patch. If he wants to do it his way, do it his way. It may be a crappy way but it is what he wants. You will have plenty of time to do it your way over and over again. You may never get another chance to help him feel better. From personal experience I can tell you that if you do what he wants, how he wants it, you will never regret it.

Again, I may be wrong, but that’s how I see it.

The thoughtful and helpful responses here are why I love the Fodor's forum so much! Thank everyone who's posted. It seems this &quot;dilemna&quot; touches many other folks' experiences, as well.

First, a couple more details. &quot;Dad&quot; is my wife's father, and both of us and the rest of the family agree he can be a pretty hard person to deal with. We love him for who he is, and work hard to accomodate him when we visit. But he is, well, not very &quot;attuned&quot; to the fact that other people may have different desires.

He's amicable, but _always_ thinks his way is simply the &quot;right&quot; way. It took 10 years or so before we finally made it clear we wanted to spend Christmas day in our house, rather than drive and hour-and-a-half through the nightime rain and fog out here in Oregon to spend Christmas Day evening at the only gathering that really counted as a &quot;family&quot; event in his mind. (We now spend the day before Christmas with him.)

My wife and I talked this over during dinner tonight and really benefitted from considering various perspectives presented in the forum posts. We do honestly think we can accomodate all his genuine concerns. For example, we've decided an apartment isn't the way to go, despite the financial and physical comfort advantages over a hotel.

We also checked out a number of the suggestions, and it's clear (as we expected) we can arrange personal or smaller tours. The Go Ahead Tour option actually looks ideal, except we'd like a better hotel (for everyone's sake).

So, we're leaning towards what someone suggested of making up our own &quot;package tour&quot; to present him. I'm pretty good at producing marketing material, as well as detailed travel agendas, so this could be fun to try.

Ultimately, we may face a personal situation that nobody but us can decide how best to navigate. If Dad insists it has to be done his way, with a standard packaged tour, there's more to consider than just &quot;Oh well, that's his preference, we can always come back again on our own terms.&quot;

The experience isn't just about filling cameo roles in Dad's attempt to relive a gilded memory. For us, there needs to be the _shared_ experience of travel, which (as everyone on this forum will know) means give-and-take and mutual respect. We both know how wonderful that can be from our experience travelling with my parents when they were both alive and able to go with us.

We don't care about who pays for the trip (we paid for travel with my folks). But, I guess, we think the &quot;fare&quot; for any joint trip includes some effort to understand the feelings of your companions and really be engaged with them during the trip. Somehow, we don't see this in a trip where we're just &quot;on the bus&quot; while Dad plays out his salesman's banter.

That might be asking too much in this case. Dad's who he is, and we're probably foolish to hope we can pull him a little bit into a more meaningful engagement in a trip like this.

We'll continue to reflect on it and use our best powers of persuasion to help him see that we can provide all the structure and familiar reference points he needs, we can all have an absolute blast in Paris, and he can get a unique, &quot;safe&quot; window into elements of life that his daughter really loves.

Am I getting pretty sappy? Sorry, we do really thank you all for your ideas.

-- Paul

Hi

There is a lot of negativity from people towards being part of a tour group. I wonder how many of them have actually done a tour?

You will find that tours generally allow plenty of free time to do your own thing. Whilst in the tour group you will be escorted on a first class climate controlled coach to the various sites where you will jump the often very long entrance queues and then be met by a knowledgeable and often entertaining guide. Whilst on tour, your director will be a source of facts, history and entertainment thus making your visit more cerebral as well as enjoyable. They will also deal with your luggage, check you into your hotel (which is generally a very good one, the tariff which is negotiated by the company) and deal with any problems or queries you may have. They will also arrange airport transfers for you.

So give it a go. Your father will be happy and you still will have time to yourselves. Win/Win!