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Paris Berlin night train

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Dec 14th, 2014, 08:27 AM
  #1
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Paris Berlin night train

The Independent newspaper in the UK confirms the end of the line for the legendary Paris-Berlin sleeper train.
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...y-9923380.html
Some slim hope for a future replacement is held out by the last paragraph.
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Dec 14th, 2014, 09:24 AM
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" the legendary Paris-Berlin sleeper train."

Was it really any more legendary than any other overnight train?

Every overnight train driving up other train fares by carrying five people twice a year attracts this "legendary" title when it gets put out of its misery.

Usually by journalists too lazy to research the route's humdrum history. Or occasionally by nostalgic protesters - too busy to use the pointless route, but astute enough to know some journalist will reprint their press release.
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Dec 14th, 2014, 09:54 AM
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Flying to Berlin is legendary too (and now really cheap). It was the best way to go when the East Germans would hold up border traffic for hours for no sensible reason, and the only possible way to go from June '48 to May '49.
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Dec 14th, 2014, 10:03 AM
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Nearly all overnight trains from and to France have been axed - probably because of increased daytime speeds and cheap air fares - the only international night train involving France now seems to be the Paris to Germany train, which also faces axing I understand.

Tis a sign of the times. Tant pis!
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Dec 14th, 2014, 10:24 AM
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Oops there is also the Thello overnight train Paris to Italy but not run by the SNCF or French Railways - and its future is murky to boot.
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Dec 14th, 2014, 12:03 PM
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There are several "Paris to Germany" trains, Pal, and more than a few run during the DAY which could very well be one reason why the night trains have been withdrawn.
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Dec 14th, 2014, 12:48 PM
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There are several "Paris to Germany" trains>

??? Yeh no disputing that - we are talking about overnight trains you know?
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Dec 14th, 2014, 12:50 PM
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I can't spot a Paris to Munich night train either so perhaps that was scotched as well with winter schedules.
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Dec 14th, 2014, 01:05 PM
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www.seat61.com has updates on night train changes and predicted the German trains being axed weeks ago. Ditto for Copenhagen from Germany - have not checked to see if that one still runs.
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Dec 14th, 2014, 01:13 PM
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It's true that trains go so fast now that there are really very few overnight trains, especially from Paris. The main ones that remain are the night trains to Italy and also a couple of trains out of Gare d'Austerlitz to the Spanish border. And I think there is even a 'slow' IDTGV from Paris to Montpellier.
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Dec 14th, 2014, 01:17 PM
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Well the Spanish bound ones don't even go to the border any more and there is only one that terminates in Perpignan I believe and in the monring you go on by TGV or AVE to Barcelona and Madrid (via Barcelona) - the old Talgo trains - separate ones to Barcelona and to Madrid having been scrapped.

I believe there still is a Paris to Nice night train and some other ones to the south like to Albi, Lourdes, etc.
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Dec 14th, 2014, 03:39 PM
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To be frank, night trains may save the cost of a hotel night, but it comes at the cost of the crappiest night you ever pretended to actually sleep. I have taken maybe 10 overnights, and although some were memorable (immigration raids at Basel with screaming authorities and passengers; awaking at 5am to see grand views down the Italian Alps; clunking side-rail stops at eerily lit backwater rail stations in Austria), by and large they are a giant hellhole.
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Dec 15th, 2014, 09:51 AM
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Well not everyone has that terrible experience on night trains - I've taken zillions and rarely do not get a good enough sleep - some vino helps in that regard (you can carry any food or drink you want onboard) - but it depends - light sleepers like dfourt can't sleep but many many others can - what dfourh experiencews is not nearly everyone's experience - I love night trains and some find them a hell hole - each is right in their own terms.

But do not think everyone - not nearly - finds them the horrors dfourh does.
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Dec 15th, 2014, 10:31 AM
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I have had a few excellent train nights and not always in wagons-lits. But when I was quite young, I could sleep anywhere and had no problems at all with my 3-month Eurail pass ($300 for 3 months in first class - can you imagine?). I must have scheduled at least 20 overnight trips back then, defying all geographical logic but just wanting to save a hotel night. Back then you could go to sleep in Italy and wake up in Amsterdam. It was wonderful, but it no longer exists. There was even a direct Paris-Lisbon train that took 27 hours. Even though I had brought a few provisions, I was fed the most amazing things by total strangers on that ride.
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Dec 15th, 2014, 10:54 AM
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With 10 flights per day between Paris and Berlin between 7am and 9pm and several low-cost airfares available (even for flights tomorrow for €70!) I think there is just not enough demand for an overnight train.
Even if you added the costs to get to CDG or Orly and for one extra night Berlin, I doubt you'd run up as many costs as for a decent bed in the sleeper car.
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