Elina -
yeah, the numbers for central europe are lower than I thought. Thats what I get for not pre-googling.
But the trend is not encouraging.

Well, it's not fun for everybody. And if someone is reluctant for ANY reason to discuss politics, they should never be pushed into it. No taunting that they must not know what they believe in, that their beliefs can't be defended, etc. etc.

Interesting thread, even if I disagree wildly with some of the views (as in any good debate I should).

Stephcar: Re: Gay rights. Yes, things have changed hugely recently. Since December Gay's have been given the right to a Civil Partnership - all the rights of marriage (including things like adoption) without the contentious 'marriage' name. The term 'marriage' wasn't given as it would have caused too many rows within the religious community and would have delayed legislation. Gays also now have the same protection under law in employment matters as everyone else (ie no descrimination based on sexuality, gender or race). Also, a couple of cases of B&B owners refusing a double bed to a Gay couple have made national news.

A lot of these new initiatives are part of European Union directives to bring equality for Lesbian&Gay couples across Europe. Very different from what we're hear from across the pond.

Interesting...Connected to the b & b owners: I'm the tiniest bit concerned that, at the family palazzo in a small Italian town where we'll be staying, they might be uncomfortable with two guys showing up. How likely is that?

"Do a google search of 'european hate speech laws' - you'll get almost 10 million hits."

Actually I got 3.5 million hits but google "american black hats" and you get 11.5 million hits - just goes to show the relevance of the number of google hits

>... why talk politics if your aim is not to get the other person change his/her attitude. BECAUSE IT IS FUN. <

Amen, Elina.

Unfortunately, most Americans do not enjoy discussions as an intellectual exercise.

Hi Guy18
>....at the family palazzo in a small Italian town where we'll be staying, they might be uncomfortable with two guys showing up. <

Should a problem arise, you could say that one of you is actually a girl dressed as a boy to avoid unwanted advances.

Don't some people think that passonate politics is rather sexy?

ozarksbill

It's more sexy than people who are completely ignorant.

LOL, Ira. But that would mean we can't cross dress for breakfast.

I love it when someone says somethng like, "Most Americans (fill in the blank). In this instance it was **Unfortunately, most Americans do not enjoy discussions as an intellectual exercise.**

As if that person has had contact with some 1.5 million Americans and figured them all out. How ignorant!

Why 1.5 mil? That's not nearly all Americans, but far more than needed for a statistically significant sample.