I'm trying (and probably will be for a while, as this is what originally landed me on Fodors-a year ago-although my mother's illness is really what's kept us from making plans) to pick a tour of Europe (exactly where is still up for debate) for sometime next year. Needless to say, it all looks good.

We definitely prefer to take an escorted tour (for very specific logistical reasons) than to travel independently, and have looked at a number of different companies. The logic of how different tours are priced out is increasingly mysterious to me. Obviously some times of year are cheaper than others, and some destinations are just a better value. Of course, the quality of accomodations and included features will make a substantial difference, too, but some of the variation in price are just really bizarre.

Four or five hundred dollar differences on similar itineraries, with similar hotels, from companies that seem to be largely comparable much of the time. A fourteen day tour, with similar hotels and itinerary to an eleven day tour, but costing more than twice as much (same company). Nine days of Xmas markets (same region, but different itineraries), with the one with more meals and admissions costing roughly $300 less (also same company).

Do they just charge more when they feel the market will bear it? Or are they getting substantially better deals from some suppliers than others? Sometimes you look at itineraries (especially from really budget-oriented companies) and it's obvious that you get to go to X because someone is so thrilled to see a coachload of eating, drinking, shopping tourists that they all but pay the tour company to bring you, but a lot of these differences don't involve times of year or destinations where I would think that would be the case. Does anyone have thoughts on the subject?

I am also looking at tours that will take me to London, Paris and Rome. I'm reviewing Globus, Trafalgar, and Insight. There is no logic to the pricing. I just don't want to be in poor accommodations with lousy tour guides. I've only had experience with Tauck, which is great. Tauck does not go to London, Paris or Rome in the same trip. I'm anxious to learn what you learn.

Tours are priced according different criteria, including the number of people in a group, type of accommodations, time of year, etc.

A large number of tour companies use the same incoming services (local tour guides, etc.), depending on the destination. A few have their own guides at the destination (employees or partners), while others have someone who travels with the group.

The cost will also be based on what is included in the tour package. Not all tours are created equal. Few are all-inclusive, even when you are spending $500/day/person, so you need to read the fine print.

Few times I (unfortunately) ended up staying in the same hotel as tour groups, I noticed that even though different tours use the same hotel, they don't book the same class of rooms.

I noticed that Tauck usually books better rooms at hotels based on the row of luggage with "Tauck" tags placed outside rooms in the morning.

I don't know because I've taken a few tours, and have viewed more brochures, and the prices seemed to always make relative sense to me. I never noticed what you are saying, that very similar tours with the same itinerary, level of accommodations, included transportation, etc are priced very differently.

Some tours are just cheaper than others -- I suppose some of it is brand or name, but usually that is related to quality and most often accommodations, I think.

So I just never have noticed completely bizarre pricing, maybe you can give one specific example as to what you are referring to and people can comment better.

Robert makes some very good points. You definitely need to look at the fine print to see what level of guiding is included (an expert with you most of the time or just city-by-city guides), if the groups are whole bus-fulls or limited to, say 10-15 people, whether there are a lot of optional tours and meals not included that add to the bottom line, etc.

Also, some provide meals of greatly varying qualities and add extras like performances, private lectures for members, and the like. Some less expensive tours include a lot of time "shopping" which, while maybe not a bad thing for many folks, is sometimes funneled into certain shops. On the other hand, some companies that have high volumes can get better deals on hotels and airfares (though the latter is probably very much in flux right now!).

I've been able to observe different tour companies, and generally the public has or can find out a ballpark feeling of the reputation of different companies. That's why a forum like this, where travelers tell of their experiences WITHOUT FINANCIAL BENEFIT, can be so helpful.

Maybe if you mention a couple of companies you are considering and the places you want to go, folks can tell you what they got for the money and if they were happy.

K.

One has to be VERY careful when comparing companies/tours/itineraries. It isn't just hotel quality/locations, meals etc.

You also have to understand "tour speak". Things like "see Stonehenge" vs. "visit Stonehenge"; "see the Colosseum" vs. "tour the Colosseum" - "see" does not mean the same thing as "visit/tour". One, you do not get off the bus and have a brief photo op through the coach windows. The other, you actually get off the bus and go inside the place.

We're not all that picky, except about food, and would be surprised if we didn't enjoy almost any tour (I think we'd almost have to try to find one). Deciding what we would like the very best is a little more of an issue. Also cost is an issue, and will enter into this decision. So will time. We also will tend to pick tours with more included stuff, especially meals and admissions, as it makes budgeting easier, even though it leaves you a hostage to the tour's food.

We would most likely go to the British Isles, or Central or Eastern Europe. We are thinking to avoid things with whiz or whirl in the title, and anything that tries to tackle more than 3 or 4 countries in a week. We've been looking at Globus and Trafalgar, and their lower priced divisions. We've also looked at a couple of UK based companies such as Shearings and Travelsphere (which are obviously offering a substantially different product from Globus, etc.). I've gotten brochures from a couple of other companies, but they're either more expensive, or not really us, or both.

I tend to think of Globus and Trafalgar (et. al) as being fairly directly competitive with each other, and usually priced similarily on similar itineraries. The four hundred or so dollar difference is between their very slightly different 10 day jaunts around Britain from London to Edinburgh and back again.

The more than doubled 14-day trip is Globus's longer version of this jaunt. The xmas market differences are Trafalgar's. And I did think I was fairly specific about the price differences that did not make sense, even without specifying the companies.

You need to review the tour brochures with a magnifying glass.

Frequently the diferences will be - # of meals included and i they're in a hotel or an actual restaurant

What you actually do on the tour. Brochures may list all the same places, but a "visit" means you go inside, a "stop" is a 5 minute photo op outside and a "view" is a drive by in the bus. Many times this is not made clear - and they hit you up for an "optional" tour to a place you've alredy passed by.

Hotel substitution. Check not just on what hotels they list and where - but how often they substitute another. Some companies - I beleive Perillo is famous for this - substitute hotels very often - and to places that are on the edge of town - or even elsewhere (Mestre versus Venice for example).

So read every comma and then call the ones you're interested in with a VERY specific list of questions. For me, hotel substitution would be at the top.

Here's a quaint notion! Consult a travel agent! S/he will be able to translate brochures and her/his compensation would come from commissions from the tour company, not from you.

First thing, though, is to do some reading about the areas you're interested in -- your choices for now are quite broad. If you can narrow it down a bit, maybe the information overload won't seem so overwhelming. I like to buy a guidebook of an area, learn a bit about the history, culture, shopping, whatever, and then look again at some of those brochures and Web sites once I'm a little familiar with what's there.

k.

Brendan tours may have what you want. I have never been with them so I can't recommend them.

http://www.brendanvacations.com/Fron...amp;RegionID=2

Also, try GRand Circle Tours. Everyone seems to like their tours.

Now doing some of this a a business, I can tell you that "better" tours (meaning more expensive) often include more things that are "optionals" on cheaper tours. If you end up purchasing optionals on the cheaper tours, you can end up paying more than you would have with the more expensive all included packages.

It does depend on what you want and how much money you have. By the way, in Europe I generally do not take tours unless it is to someplace like Russia.

Hi per,

Keep researching.

When you are finally convinced that a tour is not worth the extra cost of a DIY, put together a draft itinerary and we will help you improve it.

From what you save by not going on a tour, you can take cabs instead of buses and hire porters to handle your luggage.

I have spoken to a travel agent, but have not wanted to torture them in detail while our plans are still so nebulous. We always book through one, but I like to have some idea what I want before I make them crazy with 50,000 questions.

We'd be interested in any of these areas (and look at it this way-we've managed to eliminate Scandinavia, the lowland countries, and all of the Mediterranean), but it's a question of priority, since we are unlikely to be able to afford to do this with any kind of frequency. Nor is it practical to include them in one trip.

I've been to the British Isles, but the only country in Central Europe (and when I say Central Europe I really mean the former Hapsburg Empire) I've visited is Austria, and I was quite small. DH and DS have never been to Europe at all.

We're a family of pretty serious history buffs and geography geeks, so we feel pretty comfortable with the background of either trip, we just need to choose! Which may take six months, and we may well pick based on value as much as anything, since we're not looking at anything that wouldn't be interesting to us.

A couple of suggestions - Rick Steves offers tours with great guides and itineraries, good accommodations, and limited group size (max 26). A bit spendy though -- we spent less than $3000 each for the 14 day "Best of Europe" tour in 2006, and I notice now it's priced at almost $4000...probably to take care of the declining value of the dollar vs. the euro, but that's been changing lately.

Not quite a tour, but worth investigating, are the packages offered through Costco. They will set up all your transportation, hotels and a few excursions, but other than that you're on your own. Long2travel - Costco does have a London-Paris-Rome package. Hotels seem to be first-rate.

Unfortunately, our logistical issues are not ones that would be easily solved by cabs and porters. Nor am I convinced that the tours are always more expensive. On some of them, you're clearly paying for convenience, but some of the British Isles itineraries in particular I was not at all sure I could duplicate for the money. Obviously there's a loss of spontaneity, but for me, it is more than made up for by the thought that someone who is not me is being PAID to be reasonably certain DH is on the bus.

&quot;<i> . . . . someone who is not me is being PAID to be reasonably certain DH is on the bus.</i>&quot;

Sorry - but tour operators are not baby sitters. Maybe you are under the impression that tour guides will escort you on/off the buses and make sure everyone is on board. Usually that is NOT the case. Normally they give you a time to meet up and if you miss it you are on your own to get to the next stop to catch up w/ the group.

meant to add - that also includes the AM departure from the hotel. Usually there is a short window for you to make it on to the coach. They will not delay departure waiting for late comers.

I don't expect them to hunt him down in the next town, but I've generally found that they don't like losing people and will make some effort to keep track of their charges (on more local tours I've taken). Of course they'll leave him if he gets REALLY lost, but I don't think they litter Europe with discarded tourists either.
He's not confused, just fairly easily distracted, and while I would not figure it as the favorite part of the job, the very nature of guided tours must attract people who need or want a little more minding than average.

long2travl - if you've only taken Tauck tours I would not do a Globus tour. I've done one Globus tour and the food was terrible, the hotels were outside of the towns, and the guide was really bad. A friend of mine recently did a Globus tour and said the guides they had were &quot;shallow&quot; meaning did not delve very deeply into the sights. I would think Trafalgar is a comparable tour but I have no knowledge of this company. I also can't speak for Insight.

When you say &quot;there is no logic to pricing&quot; there is logic, as others have pointed out. And it's often in the quality of the tour guides, food, number of sights and included tours. You have to look at each tour you're considering and write down everything offered in each tour and compare.

For instance, I took a quick look at Globus's Best of Italy and France. On the itinerary, certain sights are in red and others are in gray. I didn't see a legend but I think those places mentioned in gray type are drive bys or walk bys and you don't go into the buildings.

I'm not sure which tour you are considering with Globus but you'll be seeing many more places than Rome and Paris and this means you're cutting back on your time in Rome and Paris. That's fine if you are interested in the other towns but you specifically said you want to see London, Paris, and Rome. You only have 1 day in Paris and 1 day in Rome.