Sorry to seem inconsistent, Janis, but the idea of a tour is partly to save us from ourselves-in the sense that we don't want to spend thousands of dollars and see very few "tourist things" because we're wandering around loose soaking up the atmosphere, have gotten distracted by a couple of rather idiosyncratic attractions, and/or have found that getting ourselves to thing X is more complicated and/or expensive than we thought. And DS will sometimes get frustrated by what he perceives to be our lack of efficiency.

It would, I'm sure be cheaper to land ourselves in a single location and wander, and we did consider doing that and possibly taking a 3 or 4 day tour with a UK based company, but we're kind of thinking that's making things more complicated than they need to be.

Some of those lower end tours are really reasonable, too. I could probably vacation in Britain for a week or 10 days for that, but I don't think we could duplicate the itinerary for that money unless we stayed in hostels and ate fast food. Some are no more than I spent for 10 days in England 17 years ago, and we were staying in B&B's for the most part, and not doing a great deal of fancy eating. I did do more shopping than I will on this trip, and there were a couple of hefty admissions in that, but still.

They are in fact, cheap enough that I would worry if Globus was not such a well known company. We'll probably self-book airfare though, as I feel we can do better on our own. In a nutshell, we (particularily DS) could use a little more structure, we all kind of like riding busses, and I feel we're getting reasonable value.

We're also more concerned with seeing "big stuff" than we might otherwise be, since we will not be likely to so this again while DS is still a child. DS will probably be able to travel independently as an adult, but may always prefer a tour structure, and we'd like this to be a fun, non-stressful trip for all of us, and not come home, and realize that we spent all that money and went all that way, and didn't do much except walk around and eat ice-cream. However, we should be perfectly happy to do that while the rest of the tour is off on an "option".

My first trip to Europe was a tour. My SIL had made all the arrangements. I'm not quite clear on the connection but the tour was with Brenden but once we got to London, our first stop, everything was Globus.

I had nothing to compare anything to, so can't give you that information but I had a great time. There was quite a bit of variation in accommodations and food. Some were wonderful, and some, not so great, all within the same tour.

Globus/Brenden brochures are pretty easy to figure out. Any sites in bold print are ones you actually go into, anything just mentioned with no bold print, is a drive-by.

You know...you'll get all kinds of responses and I found that even the people on the tour had really different takes on just about everything. My SIL always says the food was fabulous, her friends that were on the tour with us said the food was just horrible. As for me, I thought it was fine. Food was good, not great except for my liver in Venice...that was just wonderful.

Globus is also good about listing the itinerary, what you'll be doing and what meals you get and if it's a more "liesurly" tour or a fast tour.

When I went back to Europe on my second trip, I was going to London and Paris only and was checking out "stay put packages". Again, I was still a novice so I booked with Globus. I selected the two hotels, London and Paris and about two weeks before we were supposed to leave, I got a notice the Paris hotel was not available. They downgraded the entire package so the hotel also changed in London.

They use lots of hotels in both cities, but they would not let me have any choice other than the hotels they had downgraded me to. I cancelled that tour and we ended up going with a United Airlines package that worked out very well.

I relate this story about Globus because I was basically singing their praises in the first part of this post, but wanted you to realize that even though I was quite happy with my tour, I was not as thrill with the way they handled the "stay put" package. Also do keep in mind that they DO reserve the right to change hotels, but I think all the tour companies do that.

I hope you can find something that works for you and you have a wonderful time.

Thanks crefloors! We probably will go with Globus. I have heard that they can be a little rigid about bookings, and hopefully we won't have that kind of issue, but they generally seem to get pretty good marks as long as you keep in mind that they're fairly low-end and don't expect a high end product.

If this trip is successful I wouldn't rule out our doing a similar trip independently in the future, but DS will probably be in college by then, and who knows if he'll even want to go places with his parents?

Right now today, Brendan no longer really exists. It has been taken over by Trafalgar and all Brendan tours, as some of the people on my last tour of Italy discovered who thought they had booked Brendan, were on a Trafalgar Tour.

Personally, I prefer Trafalgar to Globus but it's just a person preference. They are very very similar and good value for money. Globus tends to be more Americanized in that their tours tend to have mostly Americans; Tranfalgar tours have seem to have a great variety of nationalities but that's not a given.

Have you looked at Cosmos which is the budget operation of Globus. I was on both a Globus tour of Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) and another of Ireland. They were both fine..slightly cheaper than globus, hotels on a slightly lower level but fine. Trafalgar also has a budget operation called Cost Savers.

Don't be so quick to say no optionals. Many of them are very very worthwhile, many for example provide dinner with all the booze you want (you do have to eat if you don't take them)...I have rarely been disappointed with any of the optionals I have taken on the various tours I've taken. After all, who knows if I am going back to these places. The coach taks you and picks you up. You're with your tourmates and you can let your hair down and have a lot of fun.

But of course it's a personal decision.

Hi Persimmondeb,

I agree with many of your points. I have done both travel w/ a group and also independently but only in Spain. I have enjoyed both. If I travel with only my DH I like independent travel. If traveling with frindsor family I would go group.

I would consider a 10-12 day escorted tour, add pre days and post days. This way it is not such a frenzy. Or you can choose a "leisure style" or "easy pace" tour. I do not like multi country tours it sounds like too much.
In fact I prefer tours that offer several free leisure days.

Please keep in mind I have not done UK Italy just Spain.
Here are some points:

1. I do think that specifically in the <b>mid $$ range category</b> it is more affordable to go with organized tour group than traveling independently. <b>I am NOT talking budget tours (Cosmos) NOR high end (Tauk, Abercrombie &amp; Kent)</b>

In the midrange categories there are differences, you need to do some comparing for your specific iitinerary choices. One company may be better at Italy and another in Spain. Make a grid just fold a paper &amp; write out the options.

Globus/Travalcar/Brendan/Insight/Gate1/etc you should compare
(A) category/quality of hotel
Actually read about them on
Trip Advisor. Yes they will generally be large business hotels but good quality although not in the middle of the touristic centers, but usually resonably close.

(B) compare included excursions versus optional excursions that cost extra $$

(c)Included meals. ON a 10-12 tour having 3 dinners included in the price allows you plenty of independent dining. Plus it's not mandatory anyway. In Spain I figure $80-or more a dinner for two savings.That's a savings. I cannot complain about the quality of the meals we had w/ Globus a few years ago in Spain. It may be very different however on other tours &amp; countries.


2. Brendan vacations does indeed exist and they are owned by Trav Corp USA. That said, do study for
particular itinerary &amp; compare $$.
http://www.brendanvacations.com/discoverireland/

3. <b>Plusses on tours:</b>
You get to kick back, no driving or navigating. If you have a group of family or friends someone else gets to be in charge of them. The hotels generally are good although yes they are not the cute boutique hotel smack in the center of the touristic areas. You don't have to take responsibiity for tickets/ entry to museums and sights are usually easy and out of your hands.
You get to meet others.

4. <b>Minuses on tours.</b>
There is no getting away from the fact that you are part of a &quot;herd&quot;. But this can be fun if you are a people person. You may be shuttled towards certain shops and yes that is annoying. (Stay away from Tangier tours it is the mother of all herding and sales pressure is crazy..usually two salesmen to one customer in a shop). On Tours you may have to sit next to irritating people you don't care for. You may have to learn to &quot;ditch&quot; the clingy folks who typically latch on to others on tours. You learn to be vaugue about your plans if you don't want this.
You may be also be rushed through when you want to see more of a certain area or museum.

Deb, I would select a tour you like, study the areas and maps, have a list of good restaurants handy, and know more or less what you might like to do on the free days. One of the things to remember is that some people on tours do not involve themselves enough in advance. Choose extra sites, restaurants, learn how to get there from the hotel. Read.

Have a great time &amp; let us know what you do!

By the way when I was on our Globus Tour in 04 we had several Brendan folks on the coach too as others have said. But I recently checked into the relationship &amp; was told they are no longer affiliated (?)
Brendan is near my home it's in Chatsworth CA so I called. They said the same thing Globus said.

BTW Globus does have a Premiere or premium series level on some trips. Slightly better. Again I was on Spain at Leisure no other.

If you have 8 or more people you can call the grops dept directly for them and have them advise you too.

A couple of things...

1. I will stick with what I said about Brendan Tours, at least in Europe. I just checked to make sure. Apparently at the end of 2007, theywere bought out by Trafalgar. I just checked and my Italy tour which I booked and took through Trafalgar (Italy Belissimo) is listed, exactly as it was, on the Trafalgar web site. When I took a tour at the start of 2008, the Tour Director announced that Brendan was now part of Trafalgar. (I discovered while on tour that many travel agents are not aware of this; one of the people on the tour told me they were looking for the Brendan representative at the airport, they received documentation from Brendan but the Trafalgar rep assured them Brendan and Trafalgar were now one big happy family.

2. Insight is the premium branch of Trafalgar.....Insight is considered deluxe, Trafalgar First Class and Cost Savers budget. Itineraries are very similar, something optional on one are included on a higher categor tour, hotels are better and so are included meals. You indeed do get what you pay for.

Wow that is odd but very intersting to me about Brendan. I belive you.
But this is interesting because just this past thursday I spoke with the hiring manager at a Brendan near me (I am an not in the travel biz ) She told me they were separate and owned by Trav corp. Since I am one day hoping to switch to a travel related job, this info is very helpful. Maybe she did not want to say or reveal too much?

For Persimmindeb the only issue would be egtting the best price for the same product.

I would also consider insight.

I would also say not to immediately dismiss options offered on tours, they can be very good and a much easier way to see things, or arrange for such a trip, than doing it yourself. They can get good rates on those things, also. I took a couple optional day tours on the tours I took and they were great, I never could have done that on my own without a lot of research, and even then, maybe I would have ended up finding a similar day tour at the same or higher rate. Also, when they plan for the groups to do them, they often pick you up at your hotel for the day tour, so you don't have to factor in the time on public transportation getting to a departure point.

For example, one optional day tour I took on a Greek tour was a day trip to Delphi out in the countryside. It was a great trip, I really enjoyed seeing the views, and it was easy to choose and plan to go. Similarly, I did a Ireland/Scotland tour and did a couple optional day tours -- one in Scotland to see a castle and the heather, etc. and the countryside, and in Ireland, it also was going out in the country and seeing some tourist sites, the bay, etc. Both were very enjoyable and reasonably priced.

So I wouldn't say you should not take any of them, as they can greatly enhance the trip. The only thing is because they are not in the fee, you consider that when comparing prices. I like it when it isn't in the main fee for the reason you said -- not paying for something you might not want.

The tours I took never steered us to stores much at all, we just stopped in a couple for a break during some of the drives, and people actually enjoyed doing that (ie, some woolen/cashmere outlet in Scotland ). We never stopped in a store while in urban areas. Also, we weren't forced to sit next to anybody. There really wasn't any reason to, as the bus wasn't completely full (I was alone, and could have a bench to myself), and if you were a couple, you already took up the bench so were sitting next to each other. I suppose if a tour were the size to completely fill a bus used at one point, and you had three in your group, one might have to sit next to someone else. Considering you have little choice of who you sit next to on public transportation when you tour yourself, I don't see that as a big issue.

While you've gotten some good perspectives in reply on this post, your question is kind of misleading as it isn't really what you need to know bottomline.

&quot;Mysteries of tour pricing&quot; isn't really the main topic here.

I would rephrase your question and specifically ask if there something like... are there any families here, with people your ages, who have enjoyed a Globus tour of the UK (for example).

Because that's the information you need. You've already decided you are taking a tour, don't want to go on your own. Just need to decide to where.

Figuring out the rhyme &amp; reason for pricing of a a slew of organized tours isn't all that important to your particular situation, is it? You just need one that fits your requirements.

First I would figure out where you want to go before wasting a bunch of research comparing every tour available to Europe. No sense to that really.

Be aware, most of these coach tours have a policy of rotating the seats..while you and your partner if travelling as a party of 2 will always have adjacent seats, as you rotate about the bus you don't know who you will be across the aisle from in the course of a day...if the tour is not full, you can move around a bit.

In most of the bigger cities, dinner is not usually included. You do have to eat of course. In many of these cases, the meal is included with some type of touristy show (you might be used to some of these in North America) or a more formal dinner where unlimited drinks are usually available. You are of course quite welcome to pass but then you have to get where you want to eat on your own (no different than independent travel of course) or eat in the hotel or whatever. On most tours I've been on, these are usually a lot of fun and not worth the small savings to start figuring on my own.

Yes, although not obnoxeously done, many tours do stop at places where the TD and driver get a commission. Usually this is during the every two hours or so breaks necessitated for dealing with natural body functions. You are never forced to buy anything...are these rip off places, possibly but again if shopping is your thing, there will be other opportunities.

Originally, I really was just trying to figure out the vagaries in pricing. They may not make much real difference (although if I feel I can save a couple of hundred bucks without sacrificing a good time, I will) but it was annoying the heck out of me, because the difference really was not obvious.
The thread has sort of gone in another direction, which is ok, since it's been useful to me, and probably amusing, and possibly helpful to other people.
Last year when I started doing research, I did post that kind of question, and did get some useful answers. I also got a lot of people telling me that I really wanted to travel independently and not take a tour, which seems to be one of the hazards of posing a tour question on a travel site (I wound up here at least partly because some of the answers I got on Virtual Tourist were so snarky-all fodorites are sweetness and light in comparison).
I probably am doing too much research, but I'll be in the research phase as long as my mother is ill, as we just don't want to commit to a trip in these circumstances-even with insurance.
We are getting more focussed, though, and I've gotten some very sensible answers from DS, although he is now obsessed with ferries and has added Shakespeare's birthplace to his must sees.

I don't think there is any mystery to pricing. Each company tries to create the best product within a price target. A second issue is how long in advance they have made their bookings. For instance, those companies that made their arrangements a few years ago when the euro, for example, was weaker than it is not, would have a product (everything being equal) significantly better than a company that didn't. we normally travel with Tauck and, for the reasons above, have enjoyed top rated hotels and restaurants. When you review the itineraries, be sure you research the hotels you'll stay at adn the number of meals they supply.