lilypoo

Why do some people get so upset when a certain country or city is trashed? It is only one persons opinion. Quite frankly, I don't want a "sugar coated" report. I want to hear about the really bad just as much as the really good. I think getting varied opinions helps one prepare when they are seeking information and planning a trip.

massagediva

once again,one more time-negative opinions are fine,no problem whatsoever.It's the broad generalizations and the absolutes that are so far from helpful.
No more comments from me on this thread.

kswl

Obviously, part of the intent of a catchy message header is to invite people to read and respond. This header was very successful in that regard, and I don't understand why anyone has a problem with it.

Anyone who stays away from a country based solely on one post doesn't deserve to visit it! Joiedevivre is giving his impressions based on his experience. That's just as valid as a gushing, "Athens is just the Best Place Ever!" post, IMO.

Barbara

Having read the entire thread, it is clear that the OP has made many positive suggestions about Athens and has been very specific regarding the things he didn't like. While some people really can't stand to have a city or place they like criticised in any way at all, many of us are glad to know potential areas of difficulty, or things it may be wise to avoid. This site exists so that we can read other people's opinions. It is disappointing at best when some posters repeatedly take people whose opinions differ from their own to task, without offering examples from their own travels or adding anything to the discussion other than criticism of phrasing, etc.

Giovanna

Those of you so thrilled with hearing about the dark side of Athens really just don't get it! I posted days ago but obviously my explanation didn't get through to you. I feel Massagediva and others of us are not upset in any case, but what we find disturbing is that this isn't a helpful do's and don'ts post, it is a vicious diatribe. It is the gospel according to joiedevivre as if there is no deviation from those observations. IT IS OPINION FOLKS, BUT HE/SHE NEVER SAYS THAT!!! It is all expressed as fact.

kswl

I am perfectly capable of reading sentences like:

&quot;The majority of service-providers are disgruntled . . .&quot; and realizing that that is an OPINION and not fact. And, <i>in fact,</i> joiedevivre states that he welcomes &quot;differing <i>opinions</i> or challenges&quot; to his points.

Don't worry---we're not children. We can distinguish fact from opinion!

suziecoyle

I too have had an awful experience in Athens. My friend and I took refuge under a tree in a small park due to a torrential rainstorm and two men stood near us and then exposed themselves- we ran out of the park found a taxi and the man refused to take us to the hotel entrance- we had to run about 2 blocks in torrential rain-PLUS he refused to give us back any change- we got ripped off pretty bad &amp; he became nasty. We did not argue as he started to scare us &amp; he was in the front with another friend.
I will NEVER go back to Athens- I would go back to the Islands though.

joiedevivre

I just don't get it. Instead of trying to villify an individual poster and dissect phrasing why don't all those who have taken my comments to heart overwhelm the forum with positive aspects of Modern Athens?

You should re-read your comments for hypocrisy, it is quite amazing.

Dukey

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZ

ceb7369

Having read through this all, I am amazed to see that the central argument seems to be over how someone stated their opinion. I am a huge believer in mitigating my remarks and opinions, not everyone is and that is just fine. Although I found joiedevivre's initial post to have somewhat of a rant feel to it, it helped me in making my decision about including Athens in my upcoming trip.

In my humble opinion, these differences in communication styles are what make the world go round and also what brings it up to and over the brink of war. All I can say is, when I'm ranting about a horrible situation that I'm in the midst of, I prefer someone to bring me back to focusing on the good, rather than someone to criticize my right to feel that way in the first place. And quite honestly, for some posters it went over to criticizing the poster itself which leaves me wondering if I dare post my trip opinions here after my trip unless I'm in the mood for a good scalding. (Which I sometimes am, or I wouldn't be posting in this thread!) I'm an American, after all and this thread leaves me wondering if I'm welcome here.

Judyrem

I personally, did not care for the city, but the ancient ruins were outstanding. I would not return, but would advise others to visit Athens first, then decide.

kikos

athens, for the most part, is an upmarket ghetto IMO. And i've lived in many different parts of it over and years, due to an on-off relationship with a young woman, so i'm not a tourist that has spent 2-3 days there. i've lived, breathed, and worked there for extended periods of time. The city is mostly quite ugly and dirty IMO. all these ugly flats and buildings jammed up against each other, with little to no space to move. the newer buildings(mostly ugly, trying too hard to be 'modern') clash badly with the old ones. as a pedestrian, you barely have any room to move at all.

the 'chic' areas are nice yes, but nothing OVERLY special. you can find them in other cities too, and more of them.

i disagree with the guy that said athens is a 'subtle' city; its terrible design(roads/paths leading to everywhere and nowhere) is what makes things less accessible than other more 'famous' european cities. BUT, on the plus side, athens is full of hidden treasures. if you dig a little, you can find some great places there. so in that way, his comment does make sense. subtle just isn't the word to use to describe Athens, Greece, and its people though. there is nothing subtle about them.

as for the 'rudeness', well being from greek background i hear all excuses for this. the 'deep/philosophical' thing is the most baffling; young athenians are quite possibly the most shallow/image obsessed people i've met. It takes time for them to 'open up' a little. people are suspicious there, for obvious reasons i won't go into now. they are generally cool IMO, but their laid-back 'don't-worry-till-disaster-strikes' attitude gets annoying, and is part of the reason the country's economy isn't that crash hot.

But the 'rudeness' is due to their lifestyle too. when you live in such cramped conditions, in tiny apartments, with little to no privacy, working for little pay, it does get to you. i know, because i've experienced it first hand.

also, their sexual politics are like 20 years behind the u.s, australia, canada etc etc. But that's a different matter altogether.

worldinabag

Athens is a Grand Old Dame of Europe. Its beauty has long since faded but with a little imagination you can see much of its former glory. I saw many crumbling facades which must have been beautiful in their heyday but are now sadly imploding. Some have been restored no doubt with considerable amounts of cash and are now used as banks etc.

Regarding the lack of cash two ironies struck me. When I was in Athens in 2002 I couldn't get over the poor state of footpaths. Mmmm, lack of municipal funds I thought. I saw a few luckless tourists on crutches in fact! However somehow lots of money was found to fund the Olympics! The other irony I found was that nothing seemed like it was ever repaired yet every second store seemed to be selling hardware!