Modern Athens is a disgrace
Jun 4th, 2006, 12:55 AM
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Modern Athens is a disgrace
I know this may sound somewhat blunt but I feel compelled to report a strong warning to potential visitors (I am well-traveled and open-minded). If not for it's museums and relics, Athens would be the last place in the world anyone would want to visit.
I welcome differing opinions or challenges to my following points:
The majority of service-providers are disgruntled, smiles are hard to come by (except for the business owners...they are the only cheerful ones).
The majority of taxi drivers are criminals (literally: breaking the law by not picking up 'inconvenient' rides). I would avoid tipping bad service as not to encourage this practice.
Even the highest-end service-providers do not understand the concept of COURTESY, VALUE or customer-service.
I welcome differing opinions or challenges to my following points:
The majority of service-providers are disgruntled, smiles are hard to come by (except for the business owners...they are the only cheerful ones).
The majority of taxi drivers are criminals (literally: breaking the law by not picking up 'inconvenient' rides). I would avoid tipping bad service as not to encourage this practice.
Even the highest-end service-providers do not understand the concept of COURTESY, VALUE or customer-service.
Jun 4th, 2006, 02:14 AM
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I am sorry you didn't enjoy your trip joiedevivre.
What you raise in your points, of course, could be of any city not just Athens. I've come across each of your concerns in trips to London, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam etc. I am sure most travellers have.
That said, I have travelled to Athens annually for almost 20 years and will continue to do so for as long as I possibly can.
Indeed, there have been many favourable comments about the city on this board over the last two or three years.
Give us more information about what went wrong. Perhaps a trip report?
regards,
bill
What you raise in your points, of course, could be of any city not just Athens. I've come across each of your concerns in trips to London, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam etc. I am sure most travellers have.
That said, I have travelled to Athens annually for almost 20 years and will continue to do so for as long as I possibly can.
Indeed, there have been many favourable comments about the city on this board over the last two or three years.
Give us more information about what went wrong. Perhaps a trip report?
regards,
bill
Jun 4th, 2006, 02:41 AM
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Hi
I must admit that when I first visited Athens I thought the Greeks were grumpy. However I soon realised that they are what we might perceive as surly. They appeared to be like this to each other so it's not just a tourist thing. I think it's just their mannerism and I didn't take it too seriously. I found the Greeks scrupulously honest but the taxi drivers in Athens are thieves (the one in Mykonos refunded us money!). But this is a common complaint for alot of cities isn't it.
Won't stop me. I'll be Athens and Paros in September - I just love Greece and the Greeks too much.
I must admit that when I first visited Athens I thought the Greeks were grumpy. However I soon realised that they are what we might perceive as surly. They appeared to be like this to each other so it's not just a tourist thing. I think it's just their mannerism and I didn't take it too seriously. I found the Greeks scrupulously honest but the taxi drivers in Athens are thieves (the one in Mykonos refunded us money!). But this is a common complaint for alot of cities isn't it.
Won't stop me. I'll be Athens and Paros in September - I just love Greece and the Greeks too much.
Jun 4th, 2006, 04:43 AM
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joiedevivre - What were your expectations? Did you travel anywhere else on this excursion and can compare experiences? Please let us know.
I had an experience similar to this in Quebec once, but when I traveled into Ontario I found a big difference.
VS
I had an experience similar to this in Quebec once, but when I traveled into Ontario I found a big difference.
VS
Jun 4th, 2006, 07:22 AM
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joiedevivire - just so you know, the phenomenon of taxi drivers not picking up "inconvenient" rides is not limited to Athens. I live in NYC and from time to time I get a cab driver in Manhattan who won't take me home to Queens. No biggie.
In general, I've found that the people living in any major city don't smile as much as people in the country. That wouldn't be enough to stop me from visiting any city, but to each his own.
In general, I've found that the people living in any major city don't smile as much as people in the country. That wouldn't be enough to stop me from visiting any city, but to each his own.
Jun 4th, 2006, 12:18 PM
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I did have problems with taxi drivers in Athens trying to cheat me, so I won't argue that point. That has happened in other cities as well, but it did seem to be a bigger problem in Athens.
Business people are not as smiley as in the US, but if you engage them in conversation, they can be quite interesting. We went into a jewellrey store in Athens and bought only one item, but we spent over an hour chatting with the owner and his wife, who seemed very happy to visit with us.
On my first visit to Athens I was a little disappointed because I thought it would be a beautiful and romantic looking city like Paris or Prague. I didn't think I would ever return to Athens, but as fate would have it, I was back within a year, as a Middle Eastern cruise I wanted to take would begin and end in Athens.
On my second trip to Athens, I must say I enjoyed it a lot more. Maybe this is because I knew what to expect, so I focused more on the rich history of Athens, and I met even more people I liked. I'm glad I gave it another chance, I hope the OP will do the same.
Business people are not as smiley as in the US, but if you engage them in conversation, they can be quite interesting. We went into a jewellrey store in Athens and bought only one item, but we spent over an hour chatting with the owner and his wife, who seemed very happy to visit with us.
On my first visit to Athens I was a little disappointed because I thought it would be a beautiful and romantic looking city like Paris or Prague. I didn't think I would ever return to Athens, but as fate would have it, I was back within a year, as a Middle Eastern cruise I wanted to take would begin and end in Athens.
On my second trip to Athens, I must say I enjoyed it a lot more. Maybe this is because I knew what to expect, so I focused more on the rich history of Athens, and I met even more people I liked. I'm glad I gave it another chance, I hope the OP will do the same.
Jun 4th, 2006, 02:16 PM
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I took more than 20 cabs on my last trip and had only one bad experience with being overcharged. I found generally lovely, friendly people.
We had great service in nearly all restaurants and no bad experiences in a span of more than three weeks that included business and pleasure.
Indeed, when I took my laundry to a little shop (9 euros a load for wash/dry/fold), the staff was incredibly nice. Even one load was oversized, the shopkeeper not only charged me for a regular load but when he heard it was my last day in town, he rushed to a neighboring shop and brought back a bottle of Metaxa as a gift.
My unfriendliest experience in Greece was anti-Americanism by a German artist in a Cyclades shop.
We had great service in nearly all restaurants and no bad experiences in a span of more than three weeks that included business and pleasure.
Indeed, when I took my laundry to a little shop (9 euros a load for wash/dry/fold), the staff was incredibly nice. Even one load was oversized, the shopkeeper not only charged me for a regular load but when he heard it was my last day in town, he rushed to a neighboring shop and brought back a bottle of Metaxa as a gift.
My unfriendliest experience in Greece was anti-Americanism by a German artist in a Cyclades shop.
Jun 7th, 2006, 11:31 AM
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I am sorry you didn't enjoy Athens - isn't there anything you did like about the city? It is a big dirty city, like many big dirty cities around the world, but it also has its charms. The area around the Plaka for example is very nice, lots of history and its hard to beat a visit to the Acropolis and surrounding area.
Concepts of customer service are not universal - so you need to accept that and be prepared. If you weren't prepared for this yes, I can see how you'd find Greek service frustrating.
I've been using taxi's all the time out of nessecity and 9 times out of 10 they are fine. I always agree on a price ahead of time and it is also helpful to make note of their number etc. Remember Athens has a tourist police branch so you can threaten to complain if your cabbie goes back on your prearranged agreement (which I've never had happen). If you don't like the price - be prepared to walk or catch the bus.
Don't give up on Greece joiedevivre, just do some more research for your next journey.
Cheers
Concepts of customer service are not universal - so you need to accept that and be prepared. If you weren't prepared for this yes, I can see how you'd find Greek service frustrating.
I've been using taxi's all the time out of nessecity and 9 times out of 10 they are fine. I always agree on a price ahead of time and it is also helpful to make note of their number etc. Remember Athens has a tourist police branch so you can threaten to complain if your cabbie goes back on your prearranged agreement (which I've never had happen). If you don't like the price - be prepared to walk or catch the bus.
Don't give up on Greece joiedevivre, just do some more research for your next journey.
Cheers
Jun 7th, 2006, 02:04 PM
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I've only visited Athens once, in October 2000, and I loved it. Unlike many European cities, it doesn't have a Renaissance core or, like Paris, Belin and Vienna, 19th century boulevards. However, the Acropolis made up for all that. Plus the Greeks were so busy beating themselves up for the then-slow progress on Olympic sites that I took pity on them--and even was impressed by the progress that had been made. Afterall, despite predictions of disaster up until the opening ceremony, it came off well. As for cab drivers, the only one I remember is the guy who complained about Athens traffic from Syntagema Sq. to my hotel. He wasn't a lot of fun, but he did make the point that he had picked us up despite the awful traffic resulting from a bicycle race--and he didn't cheat us.
Jun 7th, 2006, 06:26 PM
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I'm still in Athens, going on two weeks now and my opinion has not changed that much.
1) TAXIS
I have found ONE honest and hard-working cabbie, whom I call whenever possible. I maintain that the cab situation here is far worse than in any other major city that I have been to (London, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam, NYC, LA, etc.). I have heard the "not-so-honest mistake" routine elsewhere but not the boldface lies defended so vehemently (except in Naples but that is part of the city's appeal). I stand by my initial warning to fellow travellers: expect a rip-off attempt when getting a taxi here (watch for #2 Tariff during the day, the meter not running; and the concierge mark-up).
Granted, raising the official fares might bring down systematic corruption (the OFFICIAL rates are dirt cheap), but I don't know if it will change the work-ethic.
A cabbie in NYC is unlikely to turn a passenger down unless he feels endangered, for whatever reason, not because the ride is too short for him to waste his time on or because he is too lazy to actually do his job. Regardless, my point is this: cabbies in Athens will turn you down for a ride if they are having a good chat with another cabbie or if they don't feel like driving. By law, they have to give you a ride unless they are on a call or off duty. I have had
1) TAXIS
I have found ONE honest and hard-working cabbie, whom I call whenever possible. I maintain that the cab situation here is far worse than in any other major city that I have been to (London, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam, NYC, LA, etc.). I have heard the "not-so-honest mistake" routine elsewhere but not the boldface lies defended so vehemently (except in Naples but that is part of the city's appeal). I stand by my initial warning to fellow travellers: expect a rip-off attempt when getting a taxi here (watch for #2 Tariff during the day, the meter not running; and the concierge mark-up).
Granted, raising the official fares might bring down systematic corruption (the OFFICIAL rates are dirt cheap), but I don't know if it will change the work-ethic.
A cabbie in NYC is unlikely to turn a passenger down unless he feels endangered, for whatever reason, not because the ride is too short for him to waste his time on or because he is too lazy to actually do his job. Regardless, my point is this: cabbies in Athens will turn you down for a ride if they are having a good chat with another cabbie or if they don't feel like driving. By law, they have to give you a ride unless they are on a call or off duty. I have had
Jun 7th, 2006, 06:37 PM
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I'm still in Athens, going on two weeks now and my opinion has not changed that much.
1) TAXIS
I have found ONE honest and hard-working cabbie, whom I call whenever possible. I maintain that the cab situation here is far worse than in any other major city that I have been to (London, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam, NYC, LA, etc.). I have heard the "not-so-honest mistake" routine elsewhere but not the boldface lies defended so vehemently (except in Naples but that is part of the city's appeal). I stand by my initial warning to fellow travellers: expect a rip-off attempt when getting a taxi here (watch for #2 Tariff during the day, the meter not running, and the absurd mark-ups).
Granted, raising the official fares might bring down systematic corruption (the OFFICIAL rates are dirt cheap), but I don't know if it will change the work-ethic.
A cabbie in NYC is unlikely to turn a passenger down unless he feels endangered, for whatever reason, not because the ride is too short for him to waste his time on or because he is too lazy to actually do his job. Regardless, my point is this: cabbies in Athens will turn you down for a ride if they are having a good chat with another cabbie or if they simply feel entitled to a more profitable destination. By law, they have to give you a ride unless they are on a call or off duty. I have had a few good laughs calling them out on this (I fetched a cop and confronted a cabbie about telling me that his cab had a 10 euro minimum fare-as he sat around chatting with his fellow loafers).
1) TAXIS
I have found ONE honest and hard-working cabbie, whom I call whenever possible. I maintain that the cab situation here is far worse than in any other major city that I have been to (London, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam, NYC, LA, etc.). I have heard the "not-so-honest mistake" routine elsewhere but not the boldface lies defended so vehemently (except in Naples but that is part of the city's appeal). I stand by my initial warning to fellow travellers: expect a rip-off attempt when getting a taxi here (watch for #2 Tariff during the day, the meter not running, and the absurd mark-ups).
Granted, raising the official fares might bring down systematic corruption (the OFFICIAL rates are dirt cheap), but I don't know if it will change the work-ethic.
A cabbie in NYC is unlikely to turn a passenger down unless he feels endangered, for whatever reason, not because the ride is too short for him to waste his time on or because he is too lazy to actually do his job. Regardless, my point is this: cabbies in Athens will turn you down for a ride if they are having a good chat with another cabbie or if they simply feel entitled to a more profitable destination. By law, they have to give you a ride unless they are on a call or off duty. I have had a few good laughs calling them out on this (I fetched a cop and confronted a cabbie about telling me that his cab had a 10 euro minimum fare-as he sat around chatting with his fellow loafers).
Jun 7th, 2006, 07:49 PM
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Sorry about the posting hiccup (is there any way to edit posts?).
Anyways, I am still here and am still learning about Athens. Unfortunately, I have not been proven wrong on any of my initial observations although I have found solace in the positive aspects of Athens.
The Benaki Museum and the National Archeological Museum have some of the most amazing collections that I have ever seen. The Acropolis at night is beyond this world. A stroll through the Plaka reminds me of Montmartre with a Byzantine-infusion. Add the elements of modern Athens to these marvels, however, and my initial point remains...disgruntled restaurant owners pointing to laminated menus with terrible selections not inviting you to eat at their place but expecting it. At least in similar scenarios elsewhere there is a little more playfulness and effort on the part of the service-providers.
I have found some galleries with some really impressive contemporary Greek art, so I've found one exception to my initial point.
Off the topic of travel, to address some of the pseudo-witty replys that add nothing to the topic...ma joie de vivre est intacte. You mustn't confuse joie de vivre with blissful ignorance or naivete. A sensible joie de vivre should be open yet critical. Regardless of the fact that I have both done my research and spent time in Athens before, I don't see how that impacts bad service, disgruntled people and crooked cabbies.
Anyways, I am still here and am still learning about Athens. Unfortunately, I have not been proven wrong on any of my initial observations although I have found solace in the positive aspects of Athens.
The Benaki Museum and the National Archeological Museum have some of the most amazing collections that I have ever seen. The Acropolis at night is beyond this world. A stroll through the Plaka reminds me of Montmartre with a Byzantine-infusion. Add the elements of modern Athens to these marvels, however, and my initial point remains...disgruntled restaurant owners pointing to laminated menus with terrible selections not inviting you to eat at their place but expecting it. At least in similar scenarios elsewhere there is a little more playfulness and effort on the part of the service-providers.
I have found some galleries with some really impressive contemporary Greek art, so I've found one exception to my initial point.
Off the topic of travel, to address some of the pseudo-witty replys that add nothing to the topic...ma joie de vivre est intacte. You mustn't confuse joie de vivre with blissful ignorance or naivete. A sensible joie de vivre should be open yet critical. Regardless of the fact that I have both done my research and spent time in Athens before, I don't see how that impacts bad service, disgruntled people and crooked cabbies.
Jun 7th, 2006, 10:03 PM
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Bonjour joiedevivre
Could you tell me where you found the galeries? I´m allways looking for interresting places I don´t know in Athens. And good greek paintings I´ve never found.
Et en échange some places where I was happy.
Anafiotika village on Acropolis hill, Cycladic Museum and The Museum of Musical instruments in Plaka on Platanos Square and nearby Taverna Platanos with traditional food (Diogenous Str. 4).
Café Circe, Athinaion Politeia, Stavlos and Monastirak, all near Acropolis hill. And why not Café Melina or Aiolis.
Very special restaurants in the central market: Monastiri, Papandreou and Giannopoulos.
If you like music: Rembetiki Istoria, Mnisikleous and of course Stoa Athanaton, in Sofokleous 19.
And a Mezedopoleio I like very much is Filoistron, 23 Apostolou Pavlou, Thisio (with roof-garden).
All the best
Gaspard
Could you tell me where you found the galeries? I´m allways looking for interresting places I don´t know in Athens. And good greek paintings I´ve never found.
Et en échange some places where I was happy.
Anafiotika village on Acropolis hill, Cycladic Museum and The Museum of Musical instruments in Plaka on Platanos Square and nearby Taverna Platanos with traditional food (Diogenous Str. 4).
Café Circe, Athinaion Politeia, Stavlos and Monastirak, all near Acropolis hill. And why not Café Melina or Aiolis.
Very special restaurants in the central market: Monastiri, Papandreou and Giannopoulos.
If you like music: Rembetiki Istoria, Mnisikleous and of course Stoa Athanaton, in Sofokleous 19.
And a Mezedopoleio I like very much is Filoistron, 23 Apostolou Pavlou, Thisio (with roof-garden).
All the best
Gaspard
Jun 8th, 2006, 11:06 AM
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Hi Joiedevivre.
As a greek who lives in Athens for about 20 years now, I must agree with you about taxis. Taxi drivers are a disgrace! Did you now that last week they went on strike because they demanded not to wear seat belts? So please stop using taxis! Me personally never been in a taxi more than 10 times in these 20 years I live in this city. The airport has an excellent train system that takes you directly to the city center. All the major sites are within walking distance. The port is served by the metro as well. So why take a taxi? Don't become their victims. I am very happy when a new metro station is opened, because taxi drivers will have less customers! SO PLEASE DON'T USE ATHENS TAXIS. Maybe when they are driving empty, they will consider putting some brain in their empty heads.
Of course I completely desagree with you that modern Athens is a disgrace (no need to mention why).
As a greek who lives in Athens for about 20 years now, I must agree with you about taxis. Taxi drivers are a disgrace! Did you now that last week they went on strike because they demanded not to wear seat belts? So please stop using taxis! Me personally never been in a taxi more than 10 times in these 20 years I live in this city. The airport has an excellent train system that takes you directly to the city center. All the major sites are within walking distance. The port is served by the metro as well. So why take a taxi? Don't become their victims. I am very happy when a new metro station is opened, because taxi drivers will have less customers! SO PLEASE DON'T USE ATHENS TAXIS. Maybe when they are driving empty, they will consider putting some brain in their empty heads.
Of course I completely desagree with you that modern Athens is a disgrace (no need to mention why).
