MAD-Zaragoza: car or train
Mar 28th, 2009 | 06:53 AM
#1
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MAD-Zaragoza: car or train
Hello!
We will be arriving at Madrid Barajas airport and I was wondering if its easier (& faster) to just take the train to Zaragoza and then just rent a car in Zaragoza. Our final destination is the Monasterio de Piedra. I seem to recall, from a previous thread, that the knowledgeable and helpful Maribel suggested taking a train the opposite way (Zaragoza - Madrid), so I am assuming that that would be true too for the MAD-Zaragoza way. BTW, this would be for winter travel, if that even makes a difference.
I am just in the planning stage so I have not the time to do a lot of research, but is it true that the train only takes 1.5 hrs vs. a car drive of over 3 hrs??
I appreciate your advice. Thanks.
We will be arriving at Madrid Barajas airport and I was wondering if its easier (& faster) to just take the train to Zaragoza and then just rent a car in Zaragoza. Our final destination is the Monasterio de Piedra. I seem to recall, from a previous thread, that the knowledgeable and helpful Maribel suggested taking a train the opposite way (Zaragoza - Madrid), so I am assuming that that would be true too for the MAD-Zaragoza way. BTW, this would be for winter travel, if that even makes a difference.
I am just in the planning stage so I have not the time to do a lot of research, but is it true that the train only takes 1.5 hrs vs. a car drive of over 3 hrs??
I appreciate your advice. Thanks.
Mar 28th, 2009 | 03:14 PM
#2
Joined: Mar 2003
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Don't limit yourself to Rail travel (if you don't have a RailPass). I believe there's a Bus (MotorCoach) from Avda. de America Intercambiador to Zaragoza. ALSA & Continental Auto share that route. If there's one with Supra or Ultra Service, it's like flying First Class (Continental-Auto calls its Premium service one thing; ALSA calls it something else). If there's one available, spend a few Euros extra and Enjoy! I guarantee, it will be worth it, especially if you're getting over some JetLag. Premium MotorCoaches will have a Steward (Stewardess) on board to serve snacks and drinks; Compared to Airline Coach travel they are quite comfortable. Buses in general run more frequently and are usually more economical than the Train.
Avda. de America Intercambiador is at the Madrid end of the Barajas Autopista (i.e., expressway). You may even be able to get a City Bus from the Airport to Avda. de America.
Avda. de America Intercambiador is at the Madrid end of the Barajas Autopista (i.e., expressway). You may even be able to get a City Bus from the Airport to Avda. de America.
Mar 28th, 2009 | 03:39 PM
#3
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Madrid-Zaragoza takes 1 hour 18 minutes by high-speed train (www.renfe.es) or about four hours by bus.
Apr 3rd, 2009 | 03:13 PM
#4
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I've traveled to Zaragoza recently both by car and by train and much, much prefer the journey by train. The extremely busy A 2 autoroute is absolutely no "fun" whatsoever with its heavy international truck traffic and the drive just not that scenic, except for a small area around Calatayud.
Since you have plenty of time before your trip, chances are good that you'll be able to snag a 40% discount rail ticket online at www.renfe.es, an "estrella" fare if you book up to 62 days in advance.
I have a guide to booking Renfe tickets on my web page at www.maribelsguides.com that was written to guide Fodors folks through the Renfe online booking process.
Right now for June 3 (2 months out), I see both a 40% discount Estrella fare of €31.30 in Preferente (business) class and even a 60% discount WEB fare of €21.30 in Turista (tourist) class for the AVE high speed train (03103) departing Madrid's Atocha station at 10:30 am, arriving in Zaragoza at 11:48.
These WEB and Estrella discounts are not available for all Madrid-Zaragoza AVE departures, but are available for some if you can book in advance.
Since you have plenty of time before your trip, chances are good that you'll be able to snag a 40% discount rail ticket online at www.renfe.es, an "estrella" fare if you book up to 62 days in advance.
I have a guide to booking Renfe tickets on my web page at www.maribelsguides.com that was written to guide Fodors folks through the Renfe online booking process.
Right now for June 3 (2 months out), I see both a 40% discount Estrella fare of €31.30 in Preferente (business) class and even a 60% discount WEB fare of €21.30 in Turista (tourist) class for the AVE high speed train (03103) departing Madrid's Atocha station at 10:30 am, arriving in Zaragoza at 11:48.
These WEB and Estrella discounts are not available for all Madrid-Zaragoza AVE departures, but are available for some if you can book in advance.
Apr 3rd, 2009 | 03:37 PM
#5
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Thank you Maribel....I appreciate your advice and will definitely do the high-speed AVE to Zaragoza (especially after a long flight).
Thanks too to Geoff for giving the difference in time travel between train and bus. And to you too Nedsireland, for suggesting alternatives.
A further question to Maribel: Although I know you love and prefer Segovia from Toledo, during the month of December, which do you think would be a bit livelier and easier to visit? We are first time visitors to the area.
Thanks again.
Thanks too to Geoff for giving the difference in time travel between train and bus. And to you too Nedsireland, for suggesting alternatives.
A further question to Maribel: Although I know you love and prefer Segovia from Toledo, during the month of December, which do you think would be a bit livelier and easier to visit? We are first time visitors to the area.
Thanks again.
Apr 3rd, 2009 | 03:59 PM
#6
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I rarely disagree with train/vs car suggestions, but Barajas airport is right AT the road to Zaragoza, so
1)there is no "getting out of the city " problem. This drive is about 3 hours with no stops.
You would miss a few lovely stops on the train.
2) You can stop in Alcalá de Henares, in fact, to sleep if you so desire, and enjoy that town and do the remaining 2.5 hours the next day. There is a new parador in A de H.
http://www.turismoalcala.com/
3) Or drive another 40 minutes to Siguenza, a very impressive town with a gorgeous parador.
http://www.siguenza.es/siguenza/es/t...rismo_home.php
So, I would probably make this decision later closer to the date as the weather might dictate what you want to do.
Remember, the train is only 1.5 hours, but you need to get to the station, wait and then take it.
So if you are getting a car ANYWAYS for journeys past Z. I would leave from Barajas and take this opportunity to see these two places. There may be more, but I am unfamiliar with them. I think as Maribel suggested there is also something in or near Catalayud.
I am not sure where you are coming from, but if from a very long distance and you could be jet-lagged, A de H or Siguenza would be ideal to stop and stay. Trying to drive all the way to Zaragoza AND make a few interesting stops would be too much for one day. Especially in winter when the days are short and cold.
1)there is no "getting out of the city " problem. This drive is about 3 hours with no stops.
You would miss a few lovely stops on the train.
2) You can stop in Alcalá de Henares, in fact, to sleep if you so desire, and enjoy that town and do the remaining 2.5 hours the next day. There is a new parador in A de H.
http://www.turismoalcala.com/
3) Or drive another 40 minutes to Siguenza, a very impressive town with a gorgeous parador.
http://www.siguenza.es/siguenza/es/t...rismo_home.php
So, I would probably make this decision later closer to the date as the weather might dictate what you want to do.
Remember, the train is only 1.5 hours, but you need to get to the station, wait and then take it.
So if you are getting a car ANYWAYS for journeys past Z. I would leave from Barajas and take this opportunity to see these two places. There may be more, but I am unfamiliar with them. I think as Maribel suggested there is also something in or near Catalayud.
I am not sure where you are coming from, but if from a very long distance and you could be jet-lagged, A de H or Siguenza would be ideal to stop and stay. Trying to drive all the way to Zaragoza AND make a few interesting stops would be too much for one day. Especially in winter when the days are short and cold.
Apr 18th, 2009 | 04:55 AM
#7
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Thanks lincasanova for your suggestions on some towns to stop by and visit on our way to Zaragoza. We have not made a final decision on the mode of transportation to use, so its good to know we have many options.
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Apr 18th, 2009 | 11:18 AM
#8
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Hi JoyC,
Glad this thread was recently topped.
I just re-read, far more carefully, your original post and I see that your final destination that first day (correct???) is Monasterio de Piedra in Nuévalos.
It is located south of Calatayud, an hour BEFORE Zaragoza.
To reach Nuévalos and the Monasterio from Madrid's Barajas airport, you would only have 2 hours of driving east on the very busy, truck congested A-2 (the motorway I simply hate) before you take exit 204 south to the Monasterio de Piedra. As lin says, there's no "getting out of the city" problem here; only the heavy truck traffic nuisance.
Is the Monasterio de Piedra still your final destination for your first day, or is it a destination for later on, at the end of your trip?
If it's still your first day's destination, I wouldn't then train to Zaragoza. You'd need to taxi to Atocha station, wait to catch the AVE to Zaragoza then rent a car at the Zaragoza train station to then just backtrack southwest to the Monasterio de Piedra.
As lin notes, you'd spend more time this way than by simply renting a car at Barajas and heading out on the A-2 straight to Nuévalos.
I would not, however, make multiple sightseeing stops on route to Nuévalos on your FIRST day.
The two best detours, to Alcala de Henares, then to Sigüenza, to see both well, would take up most of this day.
Traffic and parking in and out of Alcalá, now a bedroom community for Madrid, can be difficult for a quick stop.
To reach Sigüenza from the A-2 requires a 20 km drive up and 22 km drive back to the A2 (although it affords pretty scenery).
I think your decision depends on your tolerance for driving after an overnight flight.
Our self-imposed limit, after years of experience, is a 2 1/2 hour drive from Barajas with a short coffee break but never a sleep-inducing lunch stop before reaching our final destination. On our first day after a transatlantic flight we try not to make multiple sightseeing stops, since they are quite tiring, and yes, sleep inducing. We learned our lesson when my husband fell asleep at the wheel after multiple sightseeing stops and a heavy lunch with wine!
I see these as your first day driving possibilities-
1)
We've driven recently on our first day as far as Sigüenza for an overnight at the monumental castle-Parador (whose rooms are due for a much needed renovation). Although this is no longer our favorite Parador, it makes for a great photo op and its throne Room, chapel, cloister and dining room will impress.
Sleepy Sigüenza IS one of our favorite medieval Castilla La Mancha towns, filled with noble homes of pink stone, an enormous fortress-like cathedral with beautiful altarpiece and side chapel (to the right) housing the exquisite alabaster reclining statue of El Doncel (Isabella's page who died in a battle against the Moors), an atmospheric main street, Calle Mayor, running the length of the town, from Plaza Mayor to the castle, lined with a few nice artisan shops. The next day's drive to Nuévalos will only take 90 min.
2)
If you'd like a first day of TOTAL relaxation VERY close to Barajas (under 30 min.), then I echo lin's suggestion of Alcalá de Henares, a World Heritage Site and birthplace of Cervantes, You would arrive early and be able to soak up the ambience of the old quarter and enjoy some of its attractions without having to "press on".
We've done this in reverse, with our final overnight at the fabulous new Parador (with indoor pool/spa) before our next day's flight to the US.
This is not your old-fashioned, medieval castle-Parador dripping with coats of armor and Belgian tapestries but instead a high-tech, avant-garde structure that has won world wide recognition for its bold design. Even the standard rooms are *extremely* comfortable, and equipped with 5 star amenities, including robes/slippers and heavenly beds. I've written a lengthy review of it and can post it here if you're interested. It lies across from the charming, antiques-filled Hostería del Estudiante restaurant, run by the Parador and a delightful place to dine on regional specialties.
And their sumptuous buffet breakfast is, without a doubt, the BEST of all the paradors I've experienced. Well worth the 15 euros. Right now they're running a 100 euro online special here, which constitutes an incredible bargain. It should be available in Dec. www.parador.es
As lin says, you could overnight here and make the trip to Nuévalos, all refreshed the next day. And in your refreshed, non jet lagged state, you could make that detour to Sigüenza and even hilltop Medinaceli, further east and only a 2 km detour from the A-2.
Medinaceli has become a favorite stop for us on our way to Calatayud. It's an undiscovered-by-foreigners little gem of a pink stone town. Its most acclaimed monument is its unique, 2nd century Roman triple arch which can be seen from the highway. Makes for a delightful stop and great photo opportunities here.
www.flickr.com/photos/kunka/2741484673/
If you were to overnight in Alcalá de Henares on your arrival day, you could then stop in Sigüenza for coffee and perhaps have lunch in Medinaceli in the atmospheric upstairs dining room of the Asador de la Villa del Granero (delicious roast lamb, homemade desserts). Medinaceli is also a great place to pick up wild mushroom and black truffle mousse (they make great gifts), honey, artisan cheeses.
http://www.cajarural.com/soria/virtu...estaurante.htm
3)
On arrival day, simply drive straight on the A2 for 2 hours to Nuévalos, with possibly a coffee stop in Medinaceli (but at the town high above the hill rather than the lower town right off the highway).
Just some ideas....
Glad this thread was recently topped.
I just re-read, far more carefully, your original post and I see that your final destination that first day (correct???) is Monasterio de Piedra in Nuévalos.
It is located south of Calatayud, an hour BEFORE Zaragoza.
To reach Nuévalos and the Monasterio from Madrid's Barajas airport, you would only have 2 hours of driving east on the very busy, truck congested A-2 (the motorway I simply hate) before you take exit 204 south to the Monasterio de Piedra. As lin says, there's no "getting out of the city" problem here; only the heavy truck traffic nuisance.
Is the Monasterio de Piedra still your final destination for your first day, or is it a destination for later on, at the end of your trip?
If it's still your first day's destination, I wouldn't then train to Zaragoza. You'd need to taxi to Atocha station, wait to catch the AVE to Zaragoza then rent a car at the Zaragoza train station to then just backtrack southwest to the Monasterio de Piedra.
As lin notes, you'd spend more time this way than by simply renting a car at Barajas and heading out on the A-2 straight to Nuévalos.
I would not, however, make multiple sightseeing stops on route to Nuévalos on your FIRST day.
The two best detours, to Alcala de Henares, then to Sigüenza, to see both well, would take up most of this day.
Traffic and parking in and out of Alcalá, now a bedroom community for Madrid, can be difficult for a quick stop.
To reach Sigüenza from the A-2 requires a 20 km drive up and 22 km drive back to the A2 (although it affords pretty scenery).
I think your decision depends on your tolerance for driving after an overnight flight.
Our self-imposed limit, after years of experience, is a 2 1/2 hour drive from Barajas with a short coffee break but never a sleep-inducing lunch stop before reaching our final destination. On our first day after a transatlantic flight we try not to make multiple sightseeing stops, since they are quite tiring, and yes, sleep inducing. We learned our lesson when my husband fell asleep at the wheel after multiple sightseeing stops and a heavy lunch with wine!
I see these as your first day driving possibilities-
1)
We've driven recently on our first day as far as Sigüenza for an overnight at the monumental castle-Parador (whose rooms are due for a much needed renovation). Although this is no longer our favorite Parador, it makes for a great photo op and its throne Room, chapel, cloister and dining room will impress.
Sleepy Sigüenza IS one of our favorite medieval Castilla La Mancha towns, filled with noble homes of pink stone, an enormous fortress-like cathedral with beautiful altarpiece and side chapel (to the right) housing the exquisite alabaster reclining statue of El Doncel (Isabella's page who died in a battle against the Moors), an atmospheric main street, Calle Mayor, running the length of the town, from Plaza Mayor to the castle, lined with a few nice artisan shops. The next day's drive to Nuévalos will only take 90 min.
2)
If you'd like a first day of TOTAL relaxation VERY close to Barajas (under 30 min.), then I echo lin's suggestion of Alcalá de Henares, a World Heritage Site and birthplace of Cervantes, You would arrive early and be able to soak up the ambience of the old quarter and enjoy some of its attractions without having to "press on".
We've done this in reverse, with our final overnight at the fabulous new Parador (with indoor pool/spa) before our next day's flight to the US.
This is not your old-fashioned, medieval castle-Parador dripping with coats of armor and Belgian tapestries but instead a high-tech, avant-garde structure that has won world wide recognition for its bold design. Even the standard rooms are *extremely* comfortable, and equipped with 5 star amenities, including robes/slippers and heavenly beds. I've written a lengthy review of it and can post it here if you're interested. It lies across from the charming, antiques-filled Hostería del Estudiante restaurant, run by the Parador and a delightful place to dine on regional specialties.
And their sumptuous buffet breakfast is, without a doubt, the BEST of all the paradors I've experienced. Well worth the 15 euros. Right now they're running a 100 euro online special here, which constitutes an incredible bargain. It should be available in Dec. www.parador.es
As lin says, you could overnight here and make the trip to Nuévalos, all refreshed the next day. And in your refreshed, non jet lagged state, you could make that detour to Sigüenza and even hilltop Medinaceli, further east and only a 2 km detour from the A-2.
Medinaceli has become a favorite stop for us on our way to Calatayud. It's an undiscovered-by-foreigners little gem of a pink stone town. Its most acclaimed monument is its unique, 2nd century Roman triple arch which can be seen from the highway. Makes for a delightful stop and great photo opportunities here.
www.flickr.com/photos/kunka/2741484673/
If you were to overnight in Alcalá de Henares on your arrival day, you could then stop in Sigüenza for coffee and perhaps have lunch in Medinaceli in the atmospheric upstairs dining room of the Asador de la Villa del Granero (delicious roast lamb, homemade desserts). Medinaceli is also a great place to pick up wild mushroom and black truffle mousse (they make great gifts), honey, artisan cheeses.
http://www.cajarural.com/soria/virtu...estaurante.htm
3)
On arrival day, simply drive straight on the A2 for 2 hours to Nuévalos, with possibly a coffee stop in Medinaceli (but at the town high above the hill rather than the lower town right off the highway).
Just some ideas....
Apr 18th, 2009 | 12:28 PM
#10
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,661
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Hi lin,
Just let me say that I simply loved your recent trip report-so beautifully written, so evocative, especially for me. You described so perfectly, so skillfully that peaceful, little spec of La Mancha where I own land- just a very short hop from San Clemente!
So, kudos to you, lin!
Just let me say that I simply loved your recent trip report-so beautifully written, so evocative, especially for me. You described so perfectly, so skillfully that peaceful, little spec of La Mancha where I own land- just a very short hop from San Clemente!
So, kudos to you, lin!
Apr 18th, 2009 | 01:38 PM
#12
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 801
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Thank you, thank you, thank you so much Maribel for all your suggestions and insights.
After much discussion with my husband and son, we decided that we will go to Monasterio de Piedra <red>AFTER</red> returning from the Huesca region and on our way back to Madrid, where we will be staying for a few more days before flying home.We wanted to enjoy it when we are not jet-lagged. And if we have time, we would very much like to visit a town or two from your and lin's suggestion list (Sigüenza, Medinacelli or Alcalá de Henares).
Therefore, we will train from Barajas to Zaragoza, rest a bit,see the city and overnight there before continuing our journey the next day.
Much appreciated!
After much discussion with my husband and son, we decided that we will go to Monasterio de Piedra <red>AFTER</red> returning from the Huesca region and on our way back to Madrid, where we will be staying for a few more days before flying home.We wanted to enjoy it when we are not jet-lagged. And if we have time, we would very much like to visit a town or two from your and lin's suggestion list (Sigüenza, Medinacelli or Alcalá de Henares).
Therefore, we will train from Barajas to Zaragoza, rest a bit,see the city and overnight there before continuing our journey the next day.
Much appreciated!
Apr 18th, 2009 | 02:31 PM
#13
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,661
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Hi JoyC,
Thanks for the clarification. I was wasn't quite sure whether the Monasterio de Piedra would come at the beginning or the end of your trip.
Where are you exploring in beautiful Huesca?
We did the same as you a few years ago-upon arriving in Madrid, we caught the AVE to Zaragoza, waited in the VIP lounge with our preferente tickets, caught a nap in route, toured a bit, spent the night at the Hotel Palafox, (whose restaurant, Aragonia Paradís we thoroughly enjoyed-refined ambience, decor, cuisine, wine list and service from a fine sommelier), then the next day picked up our rental car and headed to the spectacularly scenic Tena Valley, but all of this in late June.
lin,
I'm afraid my "land holdings" are quite the "minifundio"-and always covered in summer with purple garlic. The local ajeros use my little parcela to separate and cut their garlic crop before the best of it goes to the local factory.
Thanks for the clarification. I was wasn't quite sure whether the Monasterio de Piedra would come at the beginning or the end of your trip.
Where are you exploring in beautiful Huesca?
We did the same as you a few years ago-upon arriving in Madrid, we caught the AVE to Zaragoza, waited in the VIP lounge with our preferente tickets, caught a nap in route, toured a bit, spent the night at the Hotel Palafox, (whose restaurant, Aragonia Paradís we thoroughly enjoyed-refined ambience, decor, cuisine, wine list and service from a fine sommelier), then the next day picked up our rental car and headed to the spectacularly scenic Tena Valley, but all of this in late June.
lin,
I'm afraid my "land holdings" are quite the "minifundio"-and always covered in summer with purple garlic. The local ajeros use my little parcela to separate and cut their garlic crop before the best of it goes to the local factory.
May 3rd, 2009 | 07:07 AM
#15
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 801
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<i>Where are you exploring in beautiful Huesca?</i>
Maribel, we will also be in the Tena Valley...Sallent de Gallego for some skiing, and then see Panticosa, Jaca, Navarra and other towns/villages around the area.
We are quite excited to be in this part of Spain and I'm glad you found it quite scenic!
Maribel, we will also be in the Tena Valley...Sallent de Gallego for some skiing, and then see Panticosa, Jaca, Navarra and other towns/villages around the area.
We are quite excited to be in this part of Spain and I'm glad you found it quite scenic!
May 3rd, 2009 | 08:04 AM
#16
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,661
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Hi Joy,
I just love the Tena Valley, both in summer and winter. We've stayed both at the Panticosa Resort and in Jaca when touring the area. And we also enjoy stopping to visit the following, on route to our"home away from home" in Pamplona:
On the way from Huesca to Jaca:
the castle of Loarre in Los Mallos (a wow)
Off the N 240 in western Aragoón:
the valleys of Hecho and Ansó (for me, Ansó being the prettier)
Monastery of San Juan de la Peña (amazing capitals on the columns of the cloister)
Sos del Rey Católico, birthplace of Ferdinand, atmospheric town, nice parador
in Navarra-
Monastery of Leyre high above the Yesa reservoir (its Romanesque crypt is a treasure)
Javier castle, birthplace of St. Francis Xavier (recently restored)
Sangüesa's Santa María la Real church, with its richly sculptured portal.
Foz de Lumbier (makes a really nice and easy walk through the gorge to see the collection of griffon vultures-good place to picnic)
Burgui in the Roncal valley, for purchasing Roncal cheeses (Larra label) and visiting the Museum of the Almadía (logging rafts down the Esca river)
up the Salazar valley to Navarra's prettiest mountain village, Ochagavía, with rivers running through it and entrance to the Irati forest
Have a great time exploring!
I just love the Tena Valley, both in summer and winter. We've stayed both at the Panticosa Resort and in Jaca when touring the area. And we also enjoy stopping to visit the following, on route to our"home away from home" in Pamplona:
On the way from Huesca to Jaca:
the castle of Loarre in Los Mallos (a wow)
Off the N 240 in western Aragoón:
the valleys of Hecho and Ansó (for me, Ansó being the prettier)
Monastery of San Juan de la Peña (amazing capitals on the columns of the cloister)
Sos del Rey Católico, birthplace of Ferdinand, atmospheric town, nice parador
in Navarra-
Monastery of Leyre high above the Yesa reservoir (its Romanesque crypt is a treasure)
Javier castle, birthplace of St. Francis Xavier (recently restored)
Sangüesa's Santa María la Real church, with its richly sculptured portal.
Foz de Lumbier (makes a really nice and easy walk through the gorge to see the collection of griffon vultures-good place to picnic)
Burgui in the Roncal valley, for purchasing Roncal cheeses (Larra label) and visiting the Museum of the Almadía (logging rafts down the Esca river)
up the Salazar valley to Navarra's prettiest mountain village, Ochagavía, with rivers running through it and entrance to the Irati forest
Have a great time exploring!
May 3rd, 2009 | 08:45 AM
#17
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Many, many thanks again, Maribel!! I have been quite intrigued by Navarra and am so glad to learn that there are numerous places and sights that we can visit.
Your suggestions are so invaluable, and I know we will have a wonderful time.
Thanks again.
Your suggestions are so invaluable, and I know we will have a wonderful time.
Thanks again.
