Thanks again to those helping me w/ train tickets on another thread.

My ultimate destination is near l'Alpe D'Huez, not far s.west of Grenoble. My plan is to land in Paris, take the train to Lyon, enjoy that city for the rest of our jet-lag recovery day, and then drive the 2 hours out to the alps early the next morning, ride for two days, and then drive back to Lyon early Sunday morning for the train back to Paris.

I've been strongly adviced to take the train straight to Grenoble instead. I'm told the auto routes might be backed-up on Sunday with vacationers returning. I would truly hate to miss my train back to Paris and miss the Tour de France finishing on the Champs.

So, my questions to you are: Would I be happy exploring and dining in Grenoble? I got the impression Lyon was more scenic (Roman ruins) and would have much better food options. Further, it appears that one changes to a non-TGV train in Lyon to get to Grenoble. It seems to me the added time and stress of changing trains and the relative slowness of the train to Grenoble make it more reasonable to drive. I really, REALLY hate the idea of yet another connection and a 4 hour train trip vs. 2 hours when I have already flown for 8 hours w/ no rest in between.

I COULD travel to Lyon outbound and start in Greonble on my trip back , but the rental car fee for a diff. city drop off is $US 90.

What say you to these logistical questions? And, whatever city you suggest, I'd love to hear about a great place to stay. A neighborhood where we could easily walk to sights and restaurants while our brains recover from the jet lag would be great. Many thanks!

In my opinion, there's no comparison between the two, Lyon is by far the better option (for all the reasons you mention in your post). When I visited Grenoble, I found it to be a small, grey, little town with very little to offer other than a slightly hair-raising cable car ride.

Regarding the returning French holiday makers on the Sunday, if you time your your departure right, you should have a hassle free journey. The French are creatures of habit on holiday, so if you can leave very early (around 6am) you should miss any major traffic problems as the bulk of people will have started their journeys home on the Saturday at mid-day (when most apartment/chalet renters have to return their keys).

What's your budget for accommodation? There are plenty of well positioned hotels in Lyon, from the presqu'ile, via the old town and on out, it just depends on how much you have to spend and what your major interests are.

In Lyon, there is something interesting around every corner, including in the more residential neighborhoods, so if you let us know what your interests are, I'm sure someone will have a great suggestion...

Wonderful...exactly what I wanted to hear. We don't mind starting early at all. (I think our brains will think it's a lot later than it is, anyway)

Budget is flexible. Given the appalling amounts I'm spending on plane, train, automobile and bicycle...less would be good. Maybe 125-150 Euro? But it depends on how fabulous the accomodation. If it's an glorious, ancient chateaux then I could go higher. (which reminds me...I'm dying to stay at the Crillon my one night in Paris. if anyone knows any bargain hotel sites - like Quickbook in the USA- please let me know)

Our interests are mainly food. Great restaurants, food shops, etc. Walkable neighborhoods, interesting architecture. I've never seen a Roman ruin, so if that is doable, great! thanks!

No problem at all.

A couple of reasonable options are the Grand Hotel Boscolo (which often crops up on those bargain hotel websites you mention) and Hotel La Residence. Both are situated pretty centrally, with La Residence closer to the old town with its renaissance architecture and and funicular up to the larger of the two Roman amphitheatres.

The Boscolo is nearer the more commercial centre of Lyon, but closer to the Opera House and the old silk-workers quarter (with the other amphitheatre in ruins) which is also worth a visit.

If you really want to stay somewhere special (and know you've paid for it) there's the Cour des Loges which is widely regarded to be the best hotel in Lyon. It's in a renaissance-era building right in the heart of the old town, cobbled streets, lots of restaurants and (if you're brave) a steep walk up to the amphitheatre.

Can't help out on the Crillon though I'm afraid, someone else no doubt will though...

I continue to be advised against stopping our train trip in Lyon. I'm told we really don't want to drive in a city as large as Lyon when we don't speak french and have never before driven in Europe.

Any advice on Grenoble, or somewhere nice we could drive to from Grenoble if we wind up taking the train straight there for our first night? No more than an hour, i would say. thanks so much.

Lyon is a thousand times more interesting than Grenoble. I wonder who this is who is "strongly advising" you against it. That's nonsense. Driving in Lyon isn't any harder than driving anywhere else, including Grenoble (which is one dull place, if you ask me). There are parking garages available in several locations. And what does not speaking French have to do with it? Grenoble speaks as much French as Lyon, for heaven's sake!
About hotels - I love the Hotel La Résidence. It's good value for the price and couldn't be better situated.

thanks for the help. let me bore you with details. My advisors are a French cyclist on another board, and a friend of mine here in the states who travels to France frequently (French professor) She is the one who said driving in Lyon would make her nervous.

The cyclist is the one who tells me I don't want to be on the autoroutes due to heavy traffic on Sunday the 26th with the whole world trying to get home from vacation OR get to Paris for the last day of the tour.

Oh, and the lady who owns the Chalet I'll be staying in if and when I ever get to the Alps said I should take the TGV to the airport train station in Lyon to avoid traffic...but those trains are limited and I can't drop off my car there on Sunday morning.

I know I'm probably making this harder than it needs to be, but honestly, I'm about to be sorry I ever started this. I can barely stand the thought of too much more travel time and stress after my 8 hour overnight flight.

Is Part Diex far enough out of the city center to make driving reasonable? I mean, I prefer not to drive in downtown NYC or Chicago either.

I really appreciate your thoughts.

This is a no brainer: fork out the extra $90 and get some peace of mind.....if you want to ensure to get on the train to Paris you need to be.

If your interest is mainly food and have never seen Roman ruins, then you will never leave Lyon!! This city is my favorite in France, hands down. Amazing history.

Three places NOT TO MISS in Lyon: Place Bellecour, the Roman Amphitheater, and Les Traboules. Definitely sample the best food in France and buy yourself a silk scarf (the best silk in the world!; you will regret NOT getting one!). Take the cable car to get to the Roman Ruins, don't bother with a taxi. The views from the (new) cathedral next to the ruins is bretahtaking!

Agree 100 percent with Viajero2. And the Hotel La Résidence is right off the Place Bellecour. The food is overwhelmingly wonderful.

Thanks all. Just to throw in another variable, what about Valence? It has the advantage of a non-stop train, and is slightly less than 2 hours from my destination the following day (Rivier D'Ornon), and it has the restaurants of Sophie Pic.

Would that be an easier city for two jet lagged tourists to negatiate?

I could then pay for the one way rental and return to Paris from Grenoble. thanks for your patience ;-)

I love Lyon. I had some of the best food of my life there. It is here that I fell in love with quenelles.

I don't know if it is still around but my favourite restaurant was La Voute--Chez Lea. It is right on the Rhone.

Thin

OK...you've all convinced me!

Please consider this itenirary before I make final bookings:

Train from CDG to Lyon Part Dieu, cab to hotel (still deciding between Boscolo, La REsidence, and College) Cab back to station on Fri a.m. to pick up rental car, drive to the alps hopefully very early to avoid heavy city traffic.

On Sunday a.m., drop of rental car (sucking up one-way charge) at Grenoble, take train to Paris. This to avoid possible traffic jams getting back to Lyon on busy holiday Sunday. HERE"S MY CONCERN: Hertz (and pretty much all rental car places I can find) are CLOSED on Sunday, at least before noon. They advertise a way to drop off your rental car at a Novatel across from the Grenoble station...but this worries me a whole lot. Anyone have any thoughts on dropping off a car after hours? Hertz in Lyon IS open on Sunday a.m., so I don't know what could potentially give me more trouble...the drop-off in Grenoble, or the Lyon traffic.

I must make pay for the TGV tickets I've reserved tomorrow, so any warnings (or encouragement) would be appreciated. Thank you all so much.

Why are you "sucking up" a one-way charge? As long as you pick up the car in France and return it in France, there shouldn't be any charge.

I've dropped off lots of cars on Sundays. Usually there's a drop box where you leave the keys and the insurance documents, but if a particular agency tells you to drop it off at a Novotel, that's what you should do. I've had stranger instructions. Take pictures of the car outside the hotel, take pictures to show the car's not got any damage, and take a picture of the gas tank showing full, and you should be fine.

"shouldn't be a charge"...i agree...but there IS...at every agency I've checked.

I suppose I should call the local Hertz, but it's too complicated a question for my French and the girl at the international # seemed confused by the instructions as well.

Call AutoEurope: 1 800 555 2323. There is NEVER a drop-off fee (and there shouldn't be from any other agency, either, unless you're dropping off in a different country).

You definitely don't want to call the local Hertz office; you want to rent the car through an American supplier/office.

I just checked Auto Europe on line. It says a drop off fee may apply, but gives no other info. It also says I can NOT drop off the car when the office is closed.

Yeah, i made my hertz res through the American site, but it was unclear about after hours drop off, as was the lady at the Hertz 1-800 #. She told me to call the local office.

I DO appreciate your help, I don't mean to sound difficult.

I don't think you're being difficult, just trying to plan a trip. I would CALL AutoEurope, though, not go online on their website. They may have that "dropoff fee may apply" as a kind of blanket statement in case someone rents a car and later wants to leave it in another country, or any number of other reasons to cover themselves.. If you call them, I'm almost certain they'll tell you there is no fee AND can explain how to drop off a car if there's nobody in the office.