anon

Nancy: my heart aches for you also. I have a distant divorce (no children, which was easier on the divorce but a longer term sadness) but my real reason for checking in here is a strong opinion: go, but without him, taking the kids if at all possible (inserting your sister or another good friend in his place!) <BR>During my years single before my current 9 years of happiness marriage, I dated someone for almost 2 years. Early on, we talked marriage, by the end I just wanted out without physical harm or his self-harm: a delightful, bright happy person on good days, plagued by melancholy on bad ones. We had a long-planned trip to Europe planned, "we'll break up on the return" -- it was a disaster; too much time spent in beautiful, old, fun places while he spent time doing the "if only"'s and "why does it have to end" and of course the inevitable "it's all your fault because...." Being in a wonderful spot simply doesn't override current problems. <BR>My memories of that trip are frankly fairly bleak. (Trying to pretend happiness is just too much work while on vacation! and I agree that the kids will see thru it, and then be confused about the charade.) Save the charade for post-breakout, when it's so important to not make the kids take sides, to not bad-mouth the other parent. <BR> I have since returned to some of the same spots with my current family, and inserted those memories quite happily, but: what a waste of my time & money! <BR>I say: go without him; I bet you'll have a great time, too! <BR>I'll add you to my thoughts, good luck!

Tom

My two cents: Forget the non-refundable money. Why not take the kids on a different kid-friendly trip (w/o hubby) to someplace domestic and low-stress (Disney?). They still get a decent vacation and you get a chance to sort things out. And consider this: wouldn't it be delightful to go to Italy next year with your new lover? A pretty good tonic for getting over the divorce!

liz

Nancy, let me first say that I am very sorry. Secondly to echo the advice of most of the other people, GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO! I have been there and moved on, it's just another bump in the road of life that we have to get over. I'm sure you'll come through fine! Best wishes for you and your children!

Meg

Hi Nancy, <BR> <BR>I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I hope somehow things will work out between you and your husband because it's sounds clear that you still love him. <BR> <BR>I will add my two cents. GO GO GO! Whether it's with the kids, with him & the kids, or by yourself. I think you and your husband really need to sit down and talk about how worthwhile it's going to be for him to go. If there's any chance of reconciliation this might be a good trip for all of you. But, if he's sure it's over then things will be be tense and then your kids will pick up on that, not matter how hard you two try to make things perfect for them. As a result it will bring everybody's trip down. I think you'd be happier and have more fun if it was just you and the kids. That's ultimately better for the children than a miserable trip with both of you. <BR> <BR>If your kids really won't go without your husband then please go by yourself! You need something to look forward to! Guessing by your email address you and I are in the same US State, and you know how long & hard this winter has been (and there's still so much of it left). Cabin fever still has a couple more months to plague us and that will only add to your depression. A trip to Italy gives you something to focus on. Any chance of bringing a friend along, either with our without the kids? <BR> <BR>You are in my thoughts. Take care!

lovemakes

Dear Nancy <BR>First all I am really sorry to hear about your troubles. My husband broke the news that he was in love with someone else (20 years my junior!)whilst we were on the trip of a lifetime to Argentina to visit our daughter who was studying out there. It hit me like a bolt from the blue-I had NO idea! I thought our marriage of 26 years was almost perfect. I had to cope with that thousands of miles from home, trying desperately to keep it from our daughter. Amidst all the pain I found a strength I didn't know I had. There was no privacy and my husband had to face up to the pain he was causing me. We returned home and after a month or so he finished the relationship with the other woman. My memories of that trip to Argentina (now almost 2 years ago) are bitter sweet. I have never regretted being there with my husband no matter hwo things turned out. My advice is to go to Italy with your husband, show him how strong you can be and look upon this trip as an end(maybe) but also the start of a bright new future.

carolyn

Nancy, I'm really sorry. My vote is to go without him but with the children. I agree with Beth--time away from home and problems will give you a much needed break with reality and then when you come back home, some time will have elapsed and you will be more able to face your new situation. You seem to be a neat lady. Phooey on him! I will keep you in my prayers.

nancy

Just got to my sister's , across the river, and already feel better knowing I have 3 days to myself. <BR>The is not a question in my mind that I will not go on this trip to Italy. <BR>The children are looking forward to it as much as I am. <BR>Whether or not my husband comes along depends upon the next few months. <BR>And can be a last min. decision on both our parts. <BR>If the children can not face the trip without daddy, I would go anyway ,as I know it would be soothing for my soul, and I *must* see Italy. <BR>But, I think the children will come because they know how much this trip means to mean, and they will be sad whether they are home or abroad. <BR>Marriage is not an even path,and I survived the crisis 2 yrs ago, and came out much stronger. <BR>Yes, My husband may be sabotaging this, but isn't that sad for him? <BR>Some people have a hard time looking inward, and doing hard work. <BR>Meg, you are correct, I am in the southeast corner.And the snow is sure to be here til May! <BR>Tom, Thanks ,but no disneyland for us, even when the children were younger. <BR>And could/would I really count on a lover next yr. even if I wanted one? <BR>A 48 yr old with 2 children is not exactly prime dating material. <BR>And for those who think I should go along, sans children/husband, <BR>I already have an exciting trip planned for my 50th with my sister and 2 close friends. <BR>Be forewarned, I will be seeking *lot* of advice for that one too. <BR>Again, <BR>you are all such a great bunch, I am really glad to have found this site a yr ago. <BR>Grazie, grazie, grazie!!!! <BR>They will be almost 11 and 14,a delicate time for children, but they are great kids. <BR> <BR>

Judy

Carolyn, I agree completely, I say "phooey on him" too! And Nancy, you are normally so upbeat and positive most of the time, that you have become one of my favorite posters,,,,please don't lose your positive outlook, you seem like a very nice "lady", in the truest sense of the word! Go with your children, sans hubby and have memorable trip. I know I would go, if I were in your situation..... the children will have to get used to doing things with you(without him). Pax, Judy

janice

Dearest Nancy, <BR>Children aged 11 and 14 will be wonderful travel companions. They're plenty old enough to be self-sufficient with bags etc. and smart enough to have opinions, observations etc that will thrill and delight you every day. And as painful as this change will be for all of you, they will be old enough to understand your feelings and you can all take turns bucking each other up. It should be a memorable and love-filled trip for the 3 of you. Stay in touch with all of us. I usually don't post with my e-mail address, but I'd be happy to give you specific advice on Italy (especially Venice, my favorite) or just to pep-talk and commisserate. <BR>Best regards and warmest positive wishes.

Rita

My suggestion: Leave the children with their father, change the itinerary, and take the trip on your own. Traveling alone is the ultimate experience. You can do whatever you want when you want. This is the perfect opportunity to clear your mind. I wouldn't consider his feelings at all. Apparently, he didn't consider yours. It is ok to be selfish in a situation like this. You need the time to think and make some decisions of your own. Yes, the children are important but so are you. Go and have a wonderful time. Rita

ger

Nancy: <BR> <BR>This is so sad ... you have my sympathy and I wish you well. <BR> <BR>In your position I would certainly travel with the kids, but not the husband. I would want one of my sisters or a best friend with me. His claim that the holiday can go ahead as planned shows an extraordinary degree of insensitivity. The strain of pretending nothing is wrong will surely be too much for you. <BR> <BR>Whatever you do, don't cancel. Consider this a new start. Do all the things YOU want to do with no compromises and no excuses to anyone else. <BR> <BR>Best of luck Nancy for your holiday and for the future. <BR> <BR>Ger <BR> <BR>

Amy

Just wanted to let you know I am so sorry to hear of your problem. I will keep you in my prayers. I'm sure that your children will be a blessing on the trip as they are at wonderful ages for sharing learning and new experiences. (Spoken as someone who "hangs out with" this age group on a daily basis, albeit 30 or so at a time.) Keep on keeping on!

kim

I think Ger has a great idea...take someone very close to you with you in your husband's place. Someone who won't mind you talking her ear off in the evenings after the kids are in bed...you can bounce things off her. Pick someone who will let you have your own space but will be company for you. It'll make it more fun for the kids too. And it will look good on him taking his ticket and giving it to someone else!

Diane

Nancy, my guess is you will enjoy this trip with your kids. You planned it with them in mind and you'd probably go nuts thinking about them everytime you did something you know they would have loved. Personally, I'd wouldn't want him along. He didn't do the planning. He didn't do the dreaming. He was obviously thinking other thoughts. Let him worry about his own non-refundable ticket. If he doesn't want the whole package, why should he get the fun bonding trip with the rest of you? They will always love you both because you're their Mom and Dad. They are also old enough to know Mom probably could use the extra hugs.

AC

Nancy: <BR>Wow! My heart aches for you. Your letter left me breathless. I went through a similar situation in 1998. Wonderful vacation to Ireland all set an ready to go in 3 weeks. The conversation went something like this: <BR>Hon? <BR>Yes? <BR>I'm in love with some one else and I am really not sure I want you to go to Ireland with me...I'd like to take her...Maybe we can work our marriage out upon my return. <BR>Oh Really??? <BR>Yes, that's what I would like to do... <BR>That night I cancelled his ticket purchased one for my mother. Best $400 I ever did lose! Been traveling with her ever since. Had a blast! I traveled with a heavy heart but an open mind. <BR>I'm sure you'll make the right decision for you and your kids. <BR>Please go and have a wonderful time WITHOUT HIM. <BR>Have the trip of your "new" lifetime! <BR> <BR>Good luck and my thoughts and good wishes are with you!

Judy

Hi,Nancy. <BR>Just want to say feel terriblly sorry for you and best wishes. <BR>Good luck!

a reader

If you sense that this is really it - a closing point in your life - go on the vacation by yourself. Nothing else (kids, family, husband-in-question, home, ...whatever is important to you) will really fall into focus until you come to terms with what is happening to you. I can't think of a better way to clear away the cobwebs than getting away from it all. Nancy, think of yourself first in this situation - whatever happens in the future will be based on this. Good luck - Happy St. Paddy's!

nancy

I have a wicked sore throat and an itchy rash on my chest, <BR>Gee, Wonder why? Ha! <BR>and I am going to crash soon. <BR>But, I want to thank each and every one of you for your thoughts and responses. <BR>You have truly made this day more bearable for me, and even brought a smile to my face. <BR>I am definitely going to take the children with me, this trip was really planned with them in mind. <BR>as to whether my husband comes, or a girlfriend, (sister can't this summer) that remains to be seen. <BR>But, rest assured, that whatever I decide will not be at the expense of my self-esteem, or health.But <BR>after 17 yrs with this man, I know I have to think things through carefully (and so does he), even though most people's reaction would be to say <BR>"S---- Him!" <BR>I am so glad I am a woman in times like this because we seem to be able to reach out to eachother, even as strangers! <BR>Since it is a point that some are wondering about, there is no other person involved. <BR>It is just my husband and his turmoil with childhood baggage. <BR>Again, a big thank you to all who are there. <BR>You are truly a wonderful group of people. <BR>and I certainly will keep you all posted. <BR>

nancy

one last thing, <BR>A trip by myself, regardless of how this marriage works out, is definitely in my future. <BR>I will be doing a girlfriend trip in 2 yrs, but the idea of a short journey on my own intrigues me, and I am sure would do me a world of good. <BR>All you solo women travelers are a real inspiration! <BR>Good night.

cmt

I'm sorry you're experiencing this terrible problem. <BR> <BR>I don't feel in a position to give real "advice" since I don't know you (except from your many posts) or your husband or your children or the way you all interact with one another. Nevertheless, I do have a few comments: (1) For families with less than ideal ways of functioning and relating to one other, vacations together can be EXTREMELY stressful and can bring out some of the worst in everyone. (I remember that traveling with my parents many decades ago was not a happy relaxed experience.) This may be even more true when you're in a country where you don't speak the language, since it might be a little harder to turn to strangers for friendly conversation. I guess this observation might weigh against going with your husband. (2) Vacations can be like "punctuation marks" in your life, setting off where one piece of your life pauses or ends and another begins. Going away, experiencing new things, and then coming back can make it just a little easier to switch gears, get out of a rut, get over a bad or sad attitude or a bad habit, etc. and to feel renewed. (I noticed this a few years ago when I took a 4-day vacation 4 months after my father died. When I returned, his death was no longer my overwhelming preoccupation.) <BR> <BR>Though right now may not be the right time, don't worry about going on vacations alone if you can't schedule a trip with friends (which I find harder and harder to do the older I get). I do not like being alone too long, but I have found that for me the ideal solution is a one-week small-group walking tour, followed by a few days on my own. I enjoy the social experience of the tour, and then the few days alone are just challenging enough that I get to burn off some of my excessive nervous mental energy, so I go home feeling energetic but more relaxed. (By the way, on these tours there are often happily married women traveling alone or with girlfiends because their husbands don't enjoy European travel.) <BR> <BR>P.S. There's nothing necessarily wrong with posting anonymously. (I knew it was you anyway before you ID'd yourself.) I post anonymously more often than not, but not for any bad motive. (Those nasty anon. people give all of us anon. posters a bad reputation.) I just don't especially feel like becoming "character" on the internet. (Some might say I'm already enough of a "character" in real life. <BR> <BR> Carol, aka "Trollophile", "Storyteller", "PollyGlott", xxx, and many other pseudonyms