Tallulah

Jeff: Maybe you should spend more of your time learning how to spell and use correct grammar/punctuation, than preaching your sanctimonious, frankly odious, nonsense?

You have driven me to pray - and I don't even believe in a god - that you NEVER have children.

Walter_Walltotti

Have some of you actually been a British Pub?

Yes some are smokey drinking pits definately unsuitable for anyone let alone children of whatever age. Some however are family friendly pubs where drinking to any form of excess is frowned upon.

Jeffwill4you, you say
"ANY PERSON WHO HAS CHILDREN IN THEIR CARE SHOULD NOT CONSUME ALCOHOL, AS LITTLE AS ONE GLASS OF WINE OR ONE MIXED DRINK CAN IMPAIR A PERSONS JUDGEMENT"

You are either amazingly naive or are just an idiotic judgmental pratt!

Would like to see the wine banned from all those family gatherings - Christmas, Weddings, Thanksgiving, whatever?

I doubt anyone here is advocating getting sloshed in the presence of theirs or anyone elses kids.

Most people know how to drink and act responsibly, I can only guess you haven't developed this maturity yet and assume everyone behaves the way you do (it is the under 25s after all who are responsible for the so-called binge drinking yob culture we supposedly have in the UK). Many people, who do have an specialism in such matters, advocate introducing alcohol to children, in a responsible manner, at a younger age, to demystify it. You don't educate kids about anything by demonising it.

jeffwill4you

Walter_Walltotti wrote:
"Many people, who do have an specialism in such matters, advocate introducing alcohol to children, in a responsible manner, at a younger age, to demystify it" LOL, Micheal Jackson would agree with you Walt.
tallulah wrote:
"you should spend more of your time learning how to spell and use correct grammar/punctuation, than preaching your sanctimonious, frankly odious, nonsense" SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT IF I LEARNED HOW TO SPELL BETTER AND STOP SAYING, IT'S BAD FOR PARENTS TO TAKE THEIR CHILDREN WITH THEM TO PUBS FOR AFTER DINNER ALCOHOL I COULD GROW UP JUST LIKE YOU! I PASS. HA HA

kamahinaohoku

So Jeff, I guess once you Do actually Have children, then taking them to church services will be a big no-no as the priest/minister will be drinking sacramental wine...and in some places the parishoners will be too, and we certainly can't let the kiddies see that, now can we? Because as YOU know, it's straight into the gates of hell from there...

jeffwill4you

So kamahinaohoku, drinking a sip of sacramental wine at church and going to
pubs at night are the same thing to you?
WOW!

adamhornets

I said to myself don't get involved but I really must ask if any French posters could comment on my belief that introducing children to wine at an early age actually makes them respect alcohol and that French towns are not no go zones on a Friday or Saturday night as they are here in the UK.

LoveItaly

Hello adamhornets, I too said I would not post on this thread but because of your post I am.

I was born and raised in California. One of my grandfathers, born and raised in Europe, grew grapes in Lodi. Sold the grapes to winemakers but he also made his own wine.

And the two small towns in the SF Bay Area that I grew up in had quite a large Italian population. They made their own wine.

Wine was always on our dinner table. One of my first memories is having a glass of a bit of red wine with water, along with a wonderful bowl of pasta. I was a little over two years old.

No one in my family has a drinking problem. It is interesting. In fact no one has a problem with drugs.

I do not pretend to have all the answers to all the comments. I only know what has worked in our family down through the generations.

What is that old saying? "If it is not broken don't fix it".

jeffwill4you

The question is, would it be frowned upon to have his two young daughters (12&15) accompany him to pubs at night in London after dinner! I say yes!
LoveItaly what do you say?

kamahinaohoku

No Jeff -drinking sacramental wine and going to a pub are not the same things. But you're the one who keeps saying that:

1."I equate drinking ... as something a parent/adult should do without CHILDREN! those are my issues."

2.And "If you feel good about yourself because you take your kids with you when you drink alcohol, good for you. its wrong."

3.And "I think drinking alcohol in front of your children gives them the wrong message."

4. And "If your need for alcohol is so bad that you can't wait until your children are not around (I.E) in bed, at a friends house, at grandma's, any where other then sitting around with you while you drink, you have a problem and may need professional help!"

5. And finally, "you keep children away from that stuff for as long as you can! because by telling them its ok to use that stuff if they do it responsibly, they are going to use it."

In all of these cases you have emphasized that children should be kept away from observing adults consuming alcohol at all costs. Wine IS an alcoholic beverage. So, since adults consume alcohol during religious services, your rationale would prevent children from being there because adults are consuming alcohol. You did say (above) that "because by telling them its ok to use that stuff if they do it responsibly, they are going to use it."

So apparently to you, there is no reason at all to show someone that there is a responsible manner in which to drink. If a priest/minister is not a responsible example...and in many cases lately, they're not...why would you take a child to church in the face of demon alcohol?

Alcohol is alcohol. And you can pretend all you want that people are taking mere sips of sacramental wine during services...so why is it ok to show children adults consuming wine in a church, but nowhere else?

LoveItaly

Jeff, what I say really does not matter. Every parent has their own decisions to make regarding raising their children.

I have one daughter and three stepchildren (who I partially raised).
They have all turned out to be beautiful, honest and good citizens. I am so proud of all of them. And feel so blessed to be part of the lives.

And they raised their children to be the same responsible people.

But each family, IMHO, has to make their own choices as to what they will and will not do.

It is not my place to "instruct" other families on how to raise the children. Unless of course abuse is taking place. But that is another whole story.

IMHO this thread has run its course.

May everyone raise their children to be a positive segment of society.

tropo

I have visited Britain on many occasions, and enjoyed having a meal in a London Pub or village Inn. The local inn seems to me, to be an extension of your loungeroom, somewhere, where the local people can meet, converse, play darts, partake of a meal, etc. The English village Inns generally are extremely well run & supervised, to ensure the enjoyment & safety of familes (including children).
I couldn't help but notice, the various people who frequent village pubs, eg. familes, couples with their dog(under the table), hikers, groups of old ladies, sporting groups having meetings, etc, etc. English pubs are so different from our Australian Pubs. The english counterpart to be seems to revolve around the local community, the way it should be, and I hope will always be that way......and yes, allowing parents to take their children in to partake of a meal. We took our children, into certain hotels for meals (in numerous countries), and with sensible parental education, they now have a greater understanding of responsible consumption of alcohol & expected social behaviour. I guess it all comes back to good parental education of "all things in life".
I know some people will think that alcohol is evil, and will wave the tambourine in my face, but we have to face life, and realise that all parents are different, some will give the right life education to their children, and others wont...thats life, we can't change it.

jeffwill4you

kamahinaohoku yes I did say those things
and I truely believe what I said with all my heart. Sacramental wine is non alcoholic and you take a sip for the blessing! I have never heard of any church that sells beer or ale or mixed drinks for after dinner service, have you? I agree with LoveItaly this thread has run its course! sorry if I have offened any one by saying its bad to take children to pubs while the parents drink alcohol. I am done, Cheers.

jahoulih

"Sacramental wine is non alcoholic"?

If it's non-alcoholic, it isn't wine, and, at least in the Catholic church, in all but the rarest of cases it isn't sacramental.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFMUSTM.HTM

henneth

At the very early beginings of this thread, in the land that time fogot, I described the commuity based village pub. The sort of pub where at all times of the day, and well into the evening families meet up, play games, socialise, and drink. What Jeff has constantly banged on about is that people go to pubs to drink alcohol, and it seems to him that nothing else is drunk there. A local village pub near my old home town does a Bingo night for the old folk on a Tuesday.Families turn up, tea and soft drinks are served, beer or wine if you want it. This is the community centre for that area and many pubs play that role. Taking kids to those places and having a drink or two in there to me isn't a problem in my eyes.The problem has been addressed earlier.....it depends on what sort of pub you would be appropriate for families, and in this case young girls.