London Pubs with 12 and 15 yr old daughters
Feb 24th, 2005, 07:09 PM
#141
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chepar I am 24 years old and an adult so
I can drink if I want to and get a buzz!
I never said ADULTS should not drink!
I never said ADULTS should not go to pubs. I am not lecturing and judging ADULTS who want to drink. I don't
understand? do you really really really think its alright to take young girls to pubs at night while the parents have some drinks?????? REALLY or are you just pulling my leg? and this person beachbum, are you just messing with me?
do you really really really believe that taking young daughters to pubs at night is a good thing?? is that what you are saying??? Also chepar and beachbum, are you two saying I am wrong about why people go to pubs? Am I wrong to say that while a person has children in their care they shouldn't drink alcohol?? I can post many real life statistics that says after as little as 1 glass of wine or 1 mixed drink a person's judgement becomes impaired if thats what you're looking to get from me? You have said it is ludicrous of me to judge someone who wants to take their little girls to a ADULT night spot
because I myself as an ADULT enjoy the occasional glass of wine???? you are joking! right? You guys really really really really believe its ok for a parent to take their children with them when they go out drinking???? really? You think I'm stupid! OMG.
I can drink if I want to and get a buzz!
I never said ADULTS should not drink!
I never said ADULTS should not go to pubs. I am not lecturing and judging ADULTS who want to drink. I don't
understand? do you really really really think its alright to take young girls to pubs at night while the parents have some drinks?????? REALLY or are you just pulling my leg? and this person beachbum, are you just messing with me?
do you really really really believe that taking young daughters to pubs at night is a good thing?? is that what you are saying??? Also chepar and beachbum, are you two saying I am wrong about why people go to pubs? Am I wrong to say that while a person has children in their care they shouldn't drink alcohol?? I can post many real life statistics that says after as little as 1 glass of wine or 1 mixed drink a person's judgement becomes impaired if thats what you're looking to get from me? You have said it is ludicrous of me to judge someone who wants to take their little girls to a ADULT night spot
because I myself as an ADULT enjoy the occasional glass of wine???? you are joking! right? You guys really really really really believe its ok for a parent to take their children with them when they go out drinking???? really? You think I'm stupid! OMG.
Feb 24th, 2005, 07:22 PM
#142
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jeff, Learn to read. I didn't write any of those things you claim I wrote. I've never written that it's okay for parents to take their children to a pub, though if it's not against the law, it should be okay in your books. The only questions I've asked, and which you've still failed to answer are, who are you to judge when a child is no longer a child (the law doesn't do that), and, who's job is it to teach children (who we hope will grow to be adults) about the responsible use of alcohol?
Feb 25th, 2005, 03:18 AM
#143
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The simple answer to the original question - whose author may by now have lost interest - is at:
http://www.culture.gov.uk/alcohol_an...ildren.htm#pub
http://www.culture.gov.uk/alcohol_an...ildren.htm#pub
Feb 25th, 2005, 03:20 AM
#144
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Feb 25th, 2005, 04:04 AM
#145
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beachbum, I have not quoted you as saying its ok to go to pubs with you children, you do seem to agree with the other posts against everything I've said
about children and alcohol don't mix?
Help me understand your view about this subject ok. Do you think its ok for a parent to take take their 12 and 15 year old daughters to pubs at night for after dinner drinks? ( he said PUBS meaning he planned on going to more then one) tell me what is your opinion
is? I am not asking if its ok for an adult to have a glass of wine at home or a pub when no children are with them so please stick to the main subject ok, thank you.
about children and alcohol don't mix?
Help me understand your view about this subject ok. Do you think its ok for a parent to take take their 12 and 15 year old daughters to pubs at night for after dinner drinks? ( he said PUBS meaning he planned on going to more then one) tell me what is your opinion
is? I am not asking if its ok for an adult to have a glass of wine at home or a pub when no children are with them so please stick to the main subject ok, thank you.
Feb 25th, 2005, 04:28 AM
#146
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"by telling them its ok to use that stuff
if they do it responsibly, they are going to use it."
No, sometimes we don't....my father used to smoke pot around me when I was younger when I would visit him and because it was not this big "forbidden" thing, I was never interested...I finally gave in and tried it with friends when I was about 18, and haven't touched it since...I also see what it and heavy drinking does to people, and stay away from drugs for that reason...I do like to have a few drinks/beers occasionally, but it doesn't run my life and I could live without it....so it can work the other way sometimes...it depends on the person/child and how they decide to deal with the situation they are faced with when those important crossroads arise...my parents raised me to have my own opinions and didn't force upon me that drugs were ok, they just didn't "hide" them from me so I would understand they are part of life and out there and if I had questions etc I could come to them instead of someone else if I wanted to. I think it is hypocritical for somoene to tell someone else not to do something they do...they will either go behind your back and do it anyway or you can keep an open line of communication and possibly have a better relationship with your child..at least that was my situation...my parents knew what I was doing as a teenager, they had been there, but as long as I was a good student, was not getting hurt or arrested, they knew I would come to them if I needed help, etc I knew they were always there for me...anyway-it worked for me, I know it may not turn out like that for everyone...just my opinion....everyone is entitled to their own.
if they do it responsibly, they are going to use it."
No, sometimes we don't....my father used to smoke pot around me when I was younger when I would visit him and because it was not this big "forbidden" thing, I was never interested...I finally gave in and tried it with friends when I was about 18, and haven't touched it since...I also see what it and heavy drinking does to people, and stay away from drugs for that reason...I do like to have a few drinks/beers occasionally, but it doesn't run my life and I could live without it....so it can work the other way sometimes...it depends on the person/child and how they decide to deal with the situation they are faced with when those important crossroads arise...my parents raised me to have my own opinions and didn't force upon me that drugs were ok, they just didn't "hide" them from me so I would understand they are part of life and out there and if I had questions etc I could come to them instead of someone else if I wanted to. I think it is hypocritical for somoene to tell someone else not to do something they do...they will either go behind your back and do it anyway or you can keep an open line of communication and possibly have a better relationship with your child..at least that was my situation...my parents knew what I was doing as a teenager, they had been there, but as long as I was a good student, was not getting hurt or arrested, they knew I would come to them if I needed help, etc I knew they were always there for me...anyway-it worked for me, I know it may not turn out like that for everyone...just my opinion....everyone is entitled to their own.
Feb 25th, 2005, 04:55 AM
#148
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is the horse dead yet????
If not one more point for Judge Jeff. Going drinking with kids and going to a pub are different things. Perhaps some day you'll learn the difference. Seeing someone so judgemntal about areas beyond their comprehension ( parenting young teens and pub culture) is raher fun sport. Thanks for the laughs!!
If not one more point for Judge Jeff. Going drinking with kids and going to a pub are different things. Perhaps some day you'll learn the difference. Seeing someone so judgemntal about areas beyond their comprehension ( parenting young teens and pub culture) is raher fun sport. Thanks for the laughs!!
Feb 25th, 2005, 06:25 AM
#149
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Thank you Wednesday. someone else agrees
with me saying, NO i would not take my young daughters to a pub after dinner.
highledge wrote:
"If not one more point for Judge Jeff. Going drinking with kids and going to a pub are different things" Ok highledge,
you're saying people go to pubs AFTER dinner at NIGHT to NOT drink alcohol? WOW, I've always heard a pub is an establishment where people go to drink alcohol! I stand corrected then. However
if they go to a pub with their children and they DO consume alcohol they are in fact, "going drinking with the kids" am I right or is it still beyond my young comprehension? I will say it again for the 5th time, ANY PERSON WHO HAS CHILDREN IN THEIR CARE SHOULD NOT CONSUME ALCOHOL, AS LITTLE AS ONE GLASS OF WINE OR ONE MIXED DRINK CAN IMPAIR A PERSONS JUDGEMENT! I know I am not a parent yet, but as human being I am pretty sure its not a good thing to be taking care of children while impaired! is it? it's not hypocritical or stupid or crazy or imaginary or idiotic or judgemental of me to say that a parent should not be out at night with CHILDREN
drinking alcohol, is it? Not only is it unfair to the children to put them in harms way by being impaired from alcohol
consumption (i.e) driving home, it's also very illegal and wrong.
with me saying, NO i would not take my young daughters to a pub after dinner.
highledge wrote:
"If not one more point for Judge Jeff. Going drinking with kids and going to a pub are different things" Ok highledge,
you're saying people go to pubs AFTER dinner at NIGHT to NOT drink alcohol? WOW, I've always heard a pub is an establishment where people go to drink alcohol! I stand corrected then. However
if they go to a pub with their children and they DO consume alcohol they are in fact, "going drinking with the kids" am I right or is it still beyond my young comprehension? I will say it again for the 5th time, ANY PERSON WHO HAS CHILDREN IN THEIR CARE SHOULD NOT CONSUME ALCOHOL, AS LITTLE AS ONE GLASS OF WINE OR ONE MIXED DRINK CAN IMPAIR A PERSONS JUDGEMENT! I know I am not a parent yet, but as human being I am pretty sure its not a good thing to be taking care of children while impaired! is it? it's not hypocritical or stupid or crazy or imaginary or idiotic or judgemental of me to say that a parent should not be out at night with CHILDREN
drinking alcohol, is it? Not only is it unfair to the children to put them in harms way by being impaired from alcohol
consumption (i.e) driving home, it's also very illegal and wrong.
Feb 25th, 2005, 07:25 AM
#150
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This really is tiring, jeff, buy okay, I'll answer your question if you answer mine. I have a 12 year-old daughter, and 17 year-old son. If I were on vacation in England, where pub life is perceived as part of the culture, and it's legal, I would have no problem taking my 12 year-old into one. And, I'd probably have a pint while she had a soft drink. The 17 year-old would be back at the hotel.
My daughter knows she's too young to drink, so for her, it would be more the experience of observing a part of the culture. And, I'd hope she'd learn something about drinking responsibly, and irresponsibly. My son already knows the difference between responsible and irresponsible drinking, and would be pressuring me in a direction I don't want to go. These are my kids. My neighbor might have a completely different approach with his.
Now, will you answer my question?
My daughter knows she's too young to drink, so for her, it would be more the experience of observing a part of the culture. And, I'd hope she'd learn something about drinking responsibly, and irresponsibly. My son already knows the difference between responsible and irresponsible drinking, and would be pressuring me in a direction I don't want to go. These are my kids. My neighbor might have a completely different approach with his.
Now, will you answer my question?
Feb 25th, 2005, 07:51 AM
#151
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>chepar I am 24 years old and an adult so I can drink if I want to and get a buzz!<
Sure you can. I never questioned the legality of your being able to drink. I just questioned your maturity level and I think this response speaks volumes.
I agree you need to learn how to read. Or perhaps before you shoot off an asinine response to a post, let it sink in a bit so you actually comprehend what the poster actually said.
You continue to put words in people's mouths. I never said the things you think I did. Your judgmental ranting is going 'round and 'round in circles - it's beginning to sound semi-hysterical, so I don't think I'll bother with this debate any more.
People have different opinions. Part of being a reasonable person is recognizing this and not thinking you are always right.
>You think I'm stupid! OMG.<
Well, maybe this is one example of your putting words in my mouth that is accurate. But let me clarify - you're entitled to your opinion. It's your sanctimonious judgment of everyone that is rubbing raw.
beachbum, it's a losing battle.
Sure you can. I never questioned the legality of your being able to drink. I just questioned your maturity level and I think this response speaks volumes.
I agree you need to learn how to read. Or perhaps before you shoot off an asinine response to a post, let it sink in a bit so you actually comprehend what the poster actually said.
You continue to put words in people's mouths. I never said the things you think I did. Your judgmental ranting is going 'round and 'round in circles - it's beginning to sound semi-hysterical, so I don't think I'll bother with this debate any more.
People have different opinions. Part of being a reasonable person is recognizing this and not thinking you are always right.
>You think I'm stupid! OMG.<
Well, maybe this is one example of your putting words in my mouth that is accurate. But let me clarify - you're entitled to your opinion. It's your sanctimonious judgment of everyone that is rubbing raw.
beachbum, it's a losing battle.
Feb 25th, 2005, 08:38 AM
#152
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Jeff, of course you are right. Legions of parents agree with you, but we don't want to get involved in an argument with these parents here at Fodors who take their kids to bars/pubs where adults (and they, the parents) will be drinking? You know they are going to get defensive and shout down the rest of us.
Visiting pubs after dinner means going to them in order to drink alcohol. Believe me, that is just not normal parental behavior, at least not in my neck of the woods. I have been in plenty of pubs in London, and all over England and Scotland. You will find few British parents in the pubs in the evenings after dinner with their 12 and 15 year old daughters or sons, either. It just isn't done.
Visiting pubs after dinner means going to them in order to drink alcohol. Believe me, that is just not normal parental behavior, at least not in my neck of the woods. I have been in plenty of pubs in London, and all over England and Scotland. You will find few British parents in the pubs in the evenings after dinner with their 12 and 15 year old daughters or sons, either. It just isn't done.
Feb 25th, 2005, 08:48 AM
#153
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Again I will answer your question beachbum. "The only questions I've asked, and which you've still failed to answer are, who are you to judge when a child is no longer a child (the law doesn't do that), and, who's job is it to teach children (who we hope will grow to be adults) about the responsible use of alcohol"
The law does judge when a minor/child is no longer a minor/child! You say your son is 17 years old, I would guess you feel he is no longer a minor/child, right? As a test, have him go to the DMV
without you or your wife and get his drivers lic! or have him try to enter into a legal contract or get credit in his name only! or go on a field trip with his school without you signing a consent form! he will not be able to, because he is still a MINOR/CHILD!
Am I wrong? Ok, I have answered that one for you.
Next question, "Who's job is it to teach children (who we hope will grow to be adults) about the responsible use of alcohol"
In my opinion there should be no reason to have to teach CHILDREN about the responsible use of alcohol! Alcohol is
is an adult activity! right? why would you need to teach your 12 year old daughter how to drink responsibly? I guess you would say, but they see beers ads on t.v and at sport venues and they see alcohol being sold right next to the milk in stores and if I as a parent don't teach them how to use alcohol responsibly they will learn to use it irresponsibly! I believe that's what you are trying to say? I would answer that by saying, they also see ads for
cigarettes everywhere too and cigarettes are sold right next to the candy at stores! so do you as a parent teach them how to smoke responsibly because if you don't they will learn to use tabacco irresponsibly? That's my best answer beachbum.
The law does judge when a minor/child is no longer a minor/child! You say your son is 17 years old, I would guess you feel he is no longer a minor/child, right? As a test, have him go to the DMV
without you or your wife and get his drivers lic! or have him try to enter into a legal contract or get credit in his name only! or go on a field trip with his school without you signing a consent form! he will not be able to, because he is still a MINOR/CHILD!
Am I wrong? Ok, I have answered that one for you.
Next question, "Who's job is it to teach children (who we hope will grow to be adults) about the responsible use of alcohol"
In my opinion there should be no reason to have to teach CHILDREN about the responsible use of alcohol! Alcohol is
is an adult activity! right? why would you need to teach your 12 year old daughter how to drink responsibly? I guess you would say, but they see beers ads on t.v and at sport venues and they see alcohol being sold right next to the milk in stores and if I as a parent don't teach them how to use alcohol responsibly they will learn to use it irresponsibly! I believe that's what you are trying to say? I would answer that by saying, they also see ads for
cigarettes everywhere too and cigarettes are sold right next to the candy at stores! so do you as a parent teach them how to smoke responsibly because if you don't they will learn to use tabacco irresponsibly? That's my best answer beachbum.
Feb 25th, 2005, 09:09 AM
#154
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Thank You Beyondthesea. You are right, why would a parent who DOES takes their children with them to drink alcohol after dinner at a pub agree with me saying it's wrong! Your one post says it better them all of mine put together.
Feb 25th, 2005, 09:31 AM
#158
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Curiousity over so many replies in just a day or two enticed me to open this thread, and wow!! Some very strong opinions.
I was raised in a STRICT southern Baptist family (no dancing, no drinking, no non-gospel music, etc.) and I can attest to the fact that an utter lack of exposure to such "wordly things" creates ALL the more interest in them in high school and college. It was almost a joke about how "wild" all the kids from my Baptist high school went during their freshman year of college.
I don't have children yet (only 25), but I am of the opinion that you are doing your kids a favor as a child if you let them see adults enjoying alcohol in a responsible manner once in a while. Of course I wouldn't subject kids to a smoke-filled room, as I can't even tolerate cigarette smoke myself due to my allergies and asthma.
Anyway, just my two cents.
I was raised in a STRICT southern Baptist family (no dancing, no drinking, no non-gospel music, etc.) and I can attest to the fact that an utter lack of exposure to such "wordly things" creates ALL the more interest in them in high school and college. It was almost a joke about how "wild" all the kids from my Baptist high school went during their freshman year of college.
I don't have children yet (only 25), but I am of the opinion that you are doing your kids a favor as a child if you let them see adults enjoying alcohol in a responsible manner once in a while. Of course I wouldn't subject kids to a smoke-filled room, as I can't even tolerate cigarette smoke myself due to my allergies and asthma.
Anyway, just my two cents.
Feb 25th, 2005, 09:35 AM
#159
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Ok tallulah let me hear it. What mean thing are you going to say about me?
Yes, I do have lots of good friends!
Beyondthesea said it all in her post and that applys to you too! say what you want about me because I don't care.
If a parent feel its ok to take their children with them to an adult night spot while the parent drinks alcohol,
there is nothing I could ever say to change your minds! If thats your parenting style, I hope it works for you
because you're the only parents your kids have! Cheers.
Yes, I do have lots of good friends!
Beyondthesea said it all in her post and that applys to you too! say what you want about me because I don't care.
If a parent feel its ok to take their children with them to an adult night spot while the parent drinks alcohol,
there is nothing I could ever say to change your minds! If thats your parenting style, I hope it works for you
because you're the only parents your kids have! Cheers.
