How about some science?

An adolescent's prefrontal cortex, the brain's center for impulse control, moderation, and grasping consequences isn't fully developed. Teenagers' brains are hardwired to take risks without regard to the effects of their actions. Tossing in alcohol and/or other mind altering chemicals is not going to enhance their ability to make intelligent decisions.

One person I WOULDN'T want modelling behavior to my children is Tallulah. This is someone who boasts they've been buying & drinking alcohol since 14 and was a self-described parent's nightmare on school trips (hanging out with pimps and prostutes in Russia). She's more than once advised visitors not to make rigid plans as they might have to stay in bed and nurse a hangover. Please, keep that dotty auntie away from kids!

Hmm...AZG: I think the fact remains that I haven't told anyone on here to f-off.

I'd hate to think what you'd be like with a few drinks inside you!! Ha ha ha!

>I think the fact remains that I haven't told anyone on here to f-off.

Oh so you idea of manners is not swearing. It's ok to be a total cow but you can't swear?

I guess you didn't learn manners afterall.

Rockhopper: My neice and nephew love me! Apparently I'm the 'fun' auntie!

Especially when you drink, apparently.

Do you also advise your neice and nephew to drink but not so much that they get caught or end up in the hospital?

Tallulah... walk away! This thread seems for some reason to have brought out several of the lunatic fring!

"When the going gets weird the weird turn pro..."

I am afraid you'll never manage to keep up with these pros!

Dr D

(For when discretion is the better part of valour!)

Dr D:

That's very clever doc. Being involved in the discussion but wording your remarks in such a way that it looks as though you're not really involved.

Problem is anyone with an IQ above 25 can see through it. Those same people can see why it's wrong to take children to the pub.

AZG - not at all, I acknowledge that I have indeed taken part in this conversation but merely suggest to T. that now might be the right time to tactfully withdraw.

When people start telling others to eff-off I think the "friendly" discussion has run its course.

I'm not going to convince you or your brethren otherwise regarding the suitablity of certain pubs on some occasions for minors below the age of 18. In light of that I'm simply not going to waste my time any longer and I reserve my right to do that.

Having said that I am disappointed that you still haven't backed up your assertion that their are more alcoholics in the UK & Ireland than in Australia or the US merely posted links to information on per-capita consumption despite my pointing this out to you over 3 hours ago.

Furthermore you upbraided me thus: "If you think Australia's standard drink system is extreme or flawed how about criticising your own which allows an additional .02%"

Well - I wasn't commenting on the Australian system, merely saying that I wouldn't want to be driven home by someone who had been drinking all night long whatever their rate of consumption.

You may, however, be interested to learn that their is currently some debate in the Uk to lower the legal limit to 50mg per 100ml.

But... for now

Dr D

beachbum wrote:
jeff, You didn't answer my questions. Is it your position that law determines when a child is no longer a child? I guess kids grow up much faster in some parts of the world. And, who is to model appropriate alcohol use for children, if not their parents? Your response to that question indicates you yourself have a problem with appropriate alcohol use, implying that the only reason to drink is to get drunk. Answer: 98% of the people who drink alcohol are drinking it to feel the effect of it except, for you and tallulah you both drink because it tastes good, right?
Yes, the law determines a minor/child is just that until they are 18 years of age.
The appropriate model of alcohol use is to teach your children that they don't need alcohol to have fun by taking them
places that don't serve alcohol and are fun, simple.
My question does not indicates I have a
problem with appropriate alcohol use, I drink a little champagne or wine with dinner! The question was I will remind you: can we take our two little girls
to PUBS AFTER dinner at NIGHT in London or will this be frowned upon! I am not alone on this, A normal caring parent who loves their children and wants only the best for them would not take them on a pub crawl with them. no mattter how you freaks try to justify it there is NO appropriate alcohol use when CHILDREN are in your care.

This has been an interesting debate, but it is as rational as trying to herd cats.


>98% of the people who drink alcohol are drinking it to feel the effect of it except, for you and tallulah you both drink because it tastes good, right?<

jeffwill4you - Is this an actual statistic you're quoting? Just wondering, because I'd like to know where it comes from.

>My question does not indicates I have a
problem with appropriate alcohol use, I drink a little champagne or wine with dinner!<

So along the same vein (if you were indeed quoting a statistic) - do you fall in the 98% that drink for the effects or the 2% because you like the taste of it?

chepar, Exactly!! And jeff, you've still managed to miss my point. If you agree it's okay to drink, but "there is NO appropriate alcohol use when CHILDREN are in your care", then from whom are children to learn about drinking responsibly? Would you leave that to Budweiser commercials? Their peers? Or is it something they acquire automatically when they turn 18 (or 14, or 12, or whatever the legal age where they live)?

>Well - I wasn't commenting on the Australian system, merely saying that I wouldn't want to be driven home by someone who had been drinking all night long whatever their rate of consumption.

It's your decision but it isn't a decision based on anything logical or rational. You statement doesn't exclude allowing someone to drive you home after 1 pint. Science says that person is just as 'influenced' as someone drinking all night using the australian system.

As for my alcoholism remarks, I couldn't be bothered investigating it any further since I believe there is a direct correlation between alcoholism and per capita consumption. It is used as a key indicator for a reason.

>You may, however, be interested to learn that their is currently some debate in the Uk to lower the legal limit to 50mg per 100ml.

The english do move at lightning speed don't you. First decimal currency, now this! What next, metric?

>50mg per 100ml

That really is the long way of saying it too btw.

For starters you could say 5mg/10ml and get the same effect. But .05 says it all so why even do that? ;-)

I have wine with dinner for the buzz I get from it. beachbum and tallulah were
implying they drink not for the buzz, they drink because in part they like alcohol, so I was guessing it must be the taste they like?

98% of the people who drink alcohol are drinking it to feel the effect of it.
No this is not an actual statistic!
but almost all people who have no desire
to feel the effects of alcohol drink,
coffee, soda, tea, water, lemonaide, milk, etc, etc.
chepar wrote:
"This has been an interesting debate, but it is as rational as trying to herd cats" Let me guess chepar? you also think its ok to take your young daughters with you to pubs at night because you feel there is nothing wrong with drinking and hey, they need to learn about alcohol any ways and who better to teach them how fun booze can be then you. am I right? because thats what most of the other posters feel and
you seem to be on their side. how's that for being rational! If the very best thing you can think of to entertain
your children is to take them to an adult night spot, you are not a very good parent.

my family just got home from London the day before yesterday,. we took our 2 grown sons and 13 y/o daughter. we ate in several pubs and never had a problem. we only ate lunch or early suppers there however. my only problem was that some of them are terribly smokey, but some do have family areas and non-smoking areas. we were so busy everyday, that it was usually 8 or 9 pm before we had dinner, and I would not have taken daughter in a pub after that. I can recommend some great restaurants if you are interested.

beachbum, how do you teach children to smoke cigarettes responsibly? by showing them how to inhale the right way? or leave it up to the marlboro man?
how do you teach children to shoot dope into their veins responsibly? do you show them how to tie the thing around their arm the right way? or leave it upto the junkie by the railroad tracks?
The answer, you don't teach children about alcohol or cigatettes or dope!
you keep children away from that stuff for as long as you can! because by telling them its ok to use that stuff
if they do it responsibly, they are going to use it.

Getting to the end of this post has given me headache. I opened the post simply because myself and my sister were occasionally taken to pubs at the ages mentioned. I now realise our parents were irresponsible alcoholics and if only social services had been aware of our case....
So, to (somewhat controversialy) actually answer the question. Check with each pub first; don't take your girls into somewhere you can't see inside. Walking in alone first and asking the barstaff about their children rule will give you the chance t ohave a look round, if it looks a bit shady you can go elsewhere. Someone mentioned the Wetherspoons chain as being smoke free. It aspires to be so after April this year, however, most Wetherspoons venues don't have childrens' licences, and most attract all day drinkers because of the low prices.
For the record, when I was in my early teens, it was a treat to go to a pub with my parents. Because they needed to drive, they only had one or two alcoholic drinks, but it was an opportunity for me to sample "grown up" life, and it felt like a rite of passage. It has also meant that I had a very balanced view about drinking and didn't go rushing to get pissed off my face as soon as I could.
I really hope that the OP takes his daughters to a pub in London. I'm sure that, mixed in with all the other stuff they will do, it will be a great part of their holiday.
Have found some of the extreme views on this post a bit strange, and feel very sorry for the OP who clearly just wanted advice on UK culture and practices

<<The answer, you don't teach children about alcohol or cigatettes or dope!>>

Hmmm.... How about sex?

You quite obviously are not a parent, jeff, or you'd know that the things you tell a child they can't or shouldn't do are very often the things they most want to do. And they will do them, regardless of how much you try and shelter them.

The analogy to smoking and dope is beyond comment. If you really think those substances are in the same league as a glass of beer or wine, how smart are you to be using alcohol?

jeffwill4you:

First off, let me state that I was genuinely interested in hearing where you came up with that statistic, as it appeared to be so ludicrous on its face, but hey - sometimes you learn strange things. However, it turns out that I need not have been concerned - it is not an acutal statistic. Since it's something that you have made up, I wonder how you determined that you have the knowledge and experience to make such a sweeping generalization about 98% of the population when you have only yourself to hold up as an example.

I wonder why you took my inquiry as such a personal attack when you were the first to make such a ludicrous statement, then follow it up with a statement that you yourself enjoy the occasional glass of wine.

You stated yourself that you have wine for the buzz you get from it. That's fine if that's your preference, but to lump everyone else who drinks as the same is idiotic. I enjoy the taste of wine - if I was doing it just for the "buzz" - don't you think I could achieve that much more quickly and cheaper with say, some rotgut whiskey?

No one is putting words in your mouth but you - yet you feel entitled to put a lot of words in mine. I never offered an opinion one way or another on my imaginary 2 daughters that I was going to take to an imaginary pub so I could go on an imaginary bender in front of.

Lastly, it's amazing where you think you can get off lecturing and judging people when you are a kid all of 24 years old. I say kid - because you certainly have not shown much maturity in your posts. Maybe when you grow up a little people will take you more seriously.