La Marseillaise - The World's Best Anthem?
Jul 18th, 2006, 10:00 AM
#21
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Sorry, it's "O Canada."
And as for the rebellious Scots, there's a verse about General Wade that says something like "May he sedition hush, and like a torrent rush, rebellious Scots to crush, God save the Queen."
Brings to mind the Star Spangled banner's own "And conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto, in God is our trust."
Lots of killling going on around here, apparently endorsed by God.
And as for the rebellious Scots, there's a verse about General Wade that says something like "May he sedition hush, and like a torrent rush, rebellious Scots to crush, God save the Queen."
Brings to mind the Star Spangled banner's own "And conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto, in God is our trust."
Lots of killling going on around here, apparently endorsed by God.
Jul 18th, 2006, 10:01 AM
#22
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English Translation/lA MARSEILLAISE
Verse I
Arise you children of the motherland,
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us tyranny
Has raised its bloodied banner, (1)
Do you hear, in the fields
The howling of these fearsome soldiers?
They are coming into your midst
To slit the throats of your sons and consorts!
Chorus
To arms, citizens!
Form your battalions!
Let us march, let us march!
May impure blood
Soak our fields' furrows!
Verse II
What does this horde of slaves,
Traitors, and plotting kings want?
For whom these vile chains
These long-prepared irons?
Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage,
What fury it must arouse!
It is us they dare plan
To return to the old slavery!
Chorus
Verse III
What! These foreign cohorts!
They would make laws in our homes!
What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would cut down our proud warriors!
Good Lord! By chained hands
Our brow would yield under the yoke
The vile despots would become
The masters of our destiny!
Chorus
Verse IV
Tremble, tyrants and traitors
The shame of all good men,
Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Will receive their just reward,
Against you we are all soldiers
If our young heroes fall,
The earth will bear new ones,
Ready to join the fight against you!
Chorus
Verse V
Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors
Bear or hold back your blows!
Spare these sad victims
That they may regret taking up arms against us,
But not these bloody despots,
These accomplices of Bouillé,
All these tigers who mercilessly
Ripped out their mothers' breast!
Chorus
Verse VI
Sacred patriotic love
Lead [and] support our avenging arms
Liberty, cherished liberty,
Fight back with your defenders
Under our flags, let victory
Hurry to your manly tone
So that your enemies, in their last breath
See your triumph and our glory!
Chorus
Verse VII (Children's Verse)
We shall enter the career (3)
When our elders will no longer be there,
There we shall find their dust
And the mark of their virtues.
Much less jealous of surviving them
Than of sharing their coffins,
We shall have the sublime pride
Of avenging or following them!
Verse I
Arise you children of the motherland,
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us tyranny
Has raised its bloodied banner, (1)
Do you hear, in the fields
The howling of these fearsome soldiers?
They are coming into your midst
To slit the throats of your sons and consorts!
Chorus
To arms, citizens!
Form your battalions!
Let us march, let us march!
May impure blood
Soak our fields' furrows!
Verse II
What does this horde of slaves,
Traitors, and plotting kings want?
For whom these vile chains
These long-prepared irons?
Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage,
What fury it must arouse!
It is us they dare plan
To return to the old slavery!
Chorus
Verse III
What! These foreign cohorts!
They would make laws in our homes!
What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would cut down our proud warriors!
Good Lord! By chained hands
Our brow would yield under the yoke
The vile despots would become
The masters of our destiny!
Chorus
Verse IV
Tremble, tyrants and traitors
The shame of all good men,
Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Will receive their just reward,
Against you we are all soldiers
If our young heroes fall,
The earth will bear new ones,
Ready to join the fight against you!
Chorus
Verse V
Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors
Bear or hold back your blows!
Spare these sad victims
That they may regret taking up arms against us,
But not these bloody despots,
These accomplices of Bouillé,
All these tigers who mercilessly
Ripped out their mothers' breast!
Chorus
Verse VI
Sacred patriotic love
Lead [and] support our avenging arms
Liberty, cherished liberty,
Fight back with your defenders
Under our flags, let victory
Hurry to your manly tone
So that your enemies, in their last breath
See your triumph and our glory!
Chorus
Verse VII (Children's Verse)
We shall enter the career (3)
When our elders will no longer be there,
There we shall find their dust
And the mark of their virtues.
Much less jealous of surviving them
Than of sharing their coffins,
We shall have the sublime pride
Of avenging or following them!
Jul 18th, 2006, 10:18 AM
#23
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Another vote for America the Beautiful--it truly is a beautiful song and almost anyone can sing it. I'd switch allegiance to that anthem in a heartbeat. The Star Spangled banner may be stirring, but too battle oriented and often painfully mutilated by those who aren't gifted and/or trained singers.
Jul 18th, 2006, 10:21 AM
#24
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O' Canada is an excellent anthem. I agree with bardo that America, the Beautiful is a much better song than the Star Spangled Banner. However, I don't ever seeing it changed as the Star Spangled Banner is played before almost every professional sporting event. It's locked into the pop culture as much as fireworks on Independence Day and Thanksgiving Friday as the first day of the Christmas shopping season.
Jul 18th, 2006, 10:26 AM
#25
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The music is stirring - the words not so much.
My favorite rendition is in Casablanca - the scene in which the locals in the cafe drown out the German officers trying to sing Deutschland uber Alles.
My favorite rendition is in Casablanca - the scene in which the locals in the cafe drown out the German officers trying to sing Deutschland uber Alles.
Jul 18th, 2006, 11:01 AM
#26
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That's a very moving scene.
However, I also love Deutschland uber Alles. The Haydn tune is used a number of times in the Episcoplan hymnal (to different text, obviously)
Had to Google the lyrics (written in 1841):
Germany, Germany above all,
Above all else in the world,
When it always, for protection and defiance, stands together brotherly.
From the Meuse to the Neman,
From the Adige to the Belt,
|: Germany, Germany above all,
Above anything in the world.
German women, German loyalty,
German wine and German song
Shall retain in all the world
Their old beautiful ring
And inspire us to noble deeds
During all of our life.
|: German women, German loyalty,
German wine and German song!
Surprised it doesn't mention beer.
In its historical context, the opening line "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, über alles in der Welt" ("Germany, Germany above all, above anything in the world"
has to be understood as an appeal to the various German sovereigns to give the creation of a united Germany a higher priority than the independence of their small states.
However, I also love Deutschland uber Alles. The Haydn tune is used a number of times in the Episcoplan hymnal (to different text, obviously)
Had to Google the lyrics (written in 1841):
Germany, Germany above all,
Above all else in the world,
When it always, for protection and defiance, stands together brotherly.
From the Meuse to the Neman,
From the Adige to the Belt,
|: Germany, Germany above all,
Above anything in the world.
German women, German loyalty,
German wine and German song
Shall retain in all the world
Their old beautiful ring
And inspire us to noble deeds
During all of our life.
|: German women, German loyalty,
German wine and German song!
Surprised it doesn't mention beer.
In its historical context, the opening line "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, über alles in der Welt" ("Germany, Germany above all, above anything in the world"
has to be understood as an appeal to the various German sovereigns to give the creation of a united Germany a higher priority than the independence of their small states.
Jul 18th, 2006, 11:04 AM
#27
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Doh!
The thrid stanza (and the actual officail German anthem)
Unity and right and freedom
For the German fatherland;
This let us all pursue,
Brotherly with heart and hand.
Unity and justice and freedom
Are the pledge of happiness.
|: Prosper in this fortune's blessing,
Prosper, German fatherland.
The thrid stanza (and the actual officail German anthem)
Unity and right and freedom
For the German fatherland;
This let us all pursue,
Brotherly with heart and hand.
Unity and justice and freedom
Are the pledge of happiness.
|: Prosper in this fortune's blessing,
Prosper, German fatherland.
Jul 18th, 2006, 11:21 AM
#29
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A good topic!
Musically, la Marseillaise is hard to beat, but if judging the overall effect, the lyrics serve to undercut what is a very inspiring tune. I've nothing against martial lyrics, but there are more inspiring calls to arms than these lyrics.
Frankly, there are a number of anthems that CAN be very rousing depending on how they are performed. One of the things I like best about the World Cup is hearing the national anthems as they ought to be performed (orchestral or marching band accompaniment with live voices to provide the signing) instead of some self-regarding soloist schmaltzing it up, as we so often have to endure in the US.
On that score, the Star Spangled Banner, God Save the Queen, O Canada, and Deutschland uber alles (don't know the current name) all score highly when well performed.
Musically, la Marseillaise is hard to beat, but if judging the overall effect, the lyrics serve to undercut what is a very inspiring tune. I've nothing against martial lyrics, but there are more inspiring calls to arms than these lyrics.
Frankly, there are a number of anthems that CAN be very rousing depending on how they are performed. One of the things I like best about the World Cup is hearing the national anthems as they ought to be performed (orchestral or marching band accompaniment with live voices to provide the signing) instead of some self-regarding soloist schmaltzing it up, as we so often have to endure in the US.
On that score, the Star Spangled Banner, God Save the Queen, O Canada, and Deutschland uber alles (don't know the current name) all score highly when well performed.
Jul 18th, 2006, 11:36 AM
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Ira, I think "God bless America" has only come to the forefront since 9/11, when for some odd reason a number of Americans feel America needs extra blessing. I think "America the Beautiful" has long been the more popular, and <i>always</i> the more lyrical, candidate for the US national anthem.
Jul 18th, 2006, 11:39 AM
#34
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<i>Finland, behold, thy daylight now is dawning,
the threat of night has now been driven away.
The skylark calls across the light of morning,
the blue of heaven lets it have its way,
and now the day the powers of night is scorning:
thy daylight dawns, O Finland of ours!
Finland, arise, and raise towards the highest
thy head now crowned with mighty memory.
Finland, arise, for to the world thou criest
that thou hast thrown off thy slavery,
beneath oppression´s yoke thou never liest.
Thy morning´s come, O Finland of ours!</i>
http://virtual.finland.fi/stream/finlandia.wav.ram
the threat of night has now been driven away.
The skylark calls across the light of morning,
the blue of heaven lets it have its way,
and now the day the powers of night is scorning:
thy daylight dawns, O Finland of ours!
Finland, arise, and raise towards the highest
thy head now crowned with mighty memory.
Finland, arise, for to the world thou criest
that thou hast thrown off thy slavery,
beneath oppression´s yoke thou never liest.
Thy morning´s come, O Finland of ours!</i>
http://virtual.finland.fi/stream/finlandia.wav.ram
Jul 18th, 2006, 11:49 AM
#37
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Ira: The movement for replacing the Star Spangled Banner has largely been led by folks who are turned off by anything militaristic, so I would agree that it is largely, though not exclusively, a left-wing view. Frankly, you could replace "America" with "Canada" in that tune and it would be equally accurate (for the first verse).
I think it is even more accurate to say that those who think "God Bless America" ought to be the national anthem are mostly (but not exclusively) on the right end of the spectrum, and usually motivated by the perceived religious message (though I fail to see why they should prefer a Broadway show tune).
Personally, I'm all for the Star Spangled Banner. Of course, the fact taht my last name is Key might have something to do with it.
I think it is even more accurate to say that those who think "God Bless America" ought to be the national anthem are mostly (but not exclusively) on the right end of the spectrum, and usually motivated by the perceived religious message (though I fail to see why they should prefer a Broadway show tune).
Personally, I'm all for the Star Spangled Banner. Of course, the fact taht my last name is Key might have something to do with it.
Jul 18th, 2006, 11:56 AM
#38
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Had to google to find out more...here's the reason for that reference to "crushing the Scots":
>>The performance that led to an explosion in the popularity of "God Save the King" took place in London in September 1745. Dr. Thomas Arne arranged the tune for a September 28, 1745, performance at the Drury Lane Theater. It was also performed concurrently at the Covent Garden Theater for several nights running. The song was intended to show support for the Hanoverian King George II, following the defeat of his General John Cope at Prestonpans, a battle that was the opening salvo in the war against "Bonnie Prince Charlie," his Stuart rival for the throne.<<
And of course, almost a hundred years later, America used the tune for "My Country 'tis of Thee" -- in our hymnal, the tune is named "America", which seems a bit cheeky...
Ira, I think you are on to something with those leanings towards America the Beautiful vs God Bless America. Must be a bit lefty-leaning myself: those lyrics for GBA make me ponder, why just America? Seems most countries could use some divine benediction, these sad days. Don't get me started...
>>The performance that led to an explosion in the popularity of "God Save the King" took place in London in September 1745. Dr. Thomas Arne arranged the tune for a September 28, 1745, performance at the Drury Lane Theater. It was also performed concurrently at the Covent Garden Theater for several nights running. The song was intended to show support for the Hanoverian King George II, following the defeat of his General John Cope at Prestonpans, a battle that was the opening salvo in the war against "Bonnie Prince Charlie," his Stuart rival for the throne.<<
And of course, almost a hundred years later, America used the tune for "My Country 'tis of Thee" -- in our hymnal, the tune is named "America", which seems a bit cheeky...
Ira, I think you are on to something with those leanings towards America the Beautiful vs God Bless America. Must be a bit lefty-leaning myself: those lyrics for GBA make me ponder, why just America? Seems most countries could use some divine benediction, these sad days. Don't get me started...
Jul 18th, 2006, 12:03 PM
#40
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I agree with flanner and Preternat. I think the lyrics of the French anthem are a disgrace and completely out of date.
With reference to bardo quoting the German anthem I would like to stress that only the lyrics of the third verse are being sung nowadays (you already mentioned it, bardo). Personally I think they are the most subtle, stirring and least offending lyrics of a national anthem imaginable. I can perfectly subscribe to them.
With reference to bardo quoting the German anthem I would like to stress that only the lyrics of the third verse are being sung nowadays (you already mentioned it, bardo). Personally I think they are the most subtle, stirring and least offending lyrics of a national anthem imaginable. I can perfectly subscribe to them.
