Jacket in Europe

Jul 28th, 2005, 06:24 AM
  #21  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,282
Actually, one of my husband's reasons for nearly always wearing a jacket (whether smart or scruffy) is that it is his equivalent of a handbag Otherwise where do you put your wallet, phone, etc ?
caroline_edinburgh is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 08:36 AM
  #22  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,323
You're quite right about a jacket being akin to the handbag. I always carry one even in high summer, where else can you put a wallet, phone, cigarettes/lighter, and other items if you don't want obscene bulges in your jeans/trousers?
m_kingdom2 is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 08:49 AM
  #23  
ira
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,145
Hi ST,

The board divides into 3 groups on this question:

A small, civilized group that insists that gentlemen wear jackets when dining in public,

A small, noisy set of barbarians who think that anything goes as long as one is comfortable,

A very large majority who don't care.

ira is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 08:58 AM
  #24  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,244
LOL -- How funny. Let me stereotype a little:

A small, civilized group that insists that gentlemen wear jackets when dining in public,

Translates into the "Neiman Marcus and/or over 70" Group.
Budman is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 09:18 AM
  #25  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,144
Ira's logic is uncharacteristically sloppy.

There can be only two groups: those who think a jacket is required and those who don't. Those who don't care fall into the second group. They may not waste energy articulating their position, but they are not in a third group.

And the simple truth is, those who think a jacket is required are simply wrong, unless they're planning on eating at a tiny number of pretentious places. Dress codes are virtually non-existent in Spain or Italy.

Now many men (and maybe even more of their womenfolk) may feel uncomfortable at tonier places without a jacket. Such people actually misunderstand Spain and Italy: what most most Spaniards and Italians want to see are smartly-dressed fellow diners, and don't have a fetish about jackets - and are no more offended by the smart jacketless than they are by men in smart Arab dress or shalwar khameez.

Other people believe they'll get worse treated. That's absolutely not my experience: slobs in a jacket get worse treatment than polite people, speaking the language, in smart shirts and clean chinos.

Many Spanish and Italian waitstaff can indeed be snobbish. But it's the lout they snub over the gentleman. And that's about smartness and manners, not uniform.

And by definition, of course, no gentleman takes his mobile phone into a restaurant at dinner time.
flanneruk is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 09:36 AM
  #26  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,193
I was concerned about this with my boyfriend as we will be going to Spain in September and he simply doesn't own a suit or sports jacket. I asked around from people who actually live in Spain (what a novelty, eh??), and asked if he were to dress in nice slacks and nice shirt if this would be acceptable. (We do not normally do 5* restaurants, so that is not a problem) I was assured a lack of jacket and tie for that matter would not be a problem in Madrid or anywhere else in Spain.

Take the jacket if it makes the wife happy or you may not be getting any for 16 days. But don't worry about actually wearing it.

I'm with Budman on this one, but I'm not sure if that makes me a barbarian or simply one of the majority. Not that I really care.

Oh, I guess that puts me in the majority...
Chele60 is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 09:39 AM
  #27  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,244
Take the jacket if it makes the wife happy or you may not be getting any for 16 days.

Now, there's something st2327 might be worried about -- making the wife happy, that is.
Budman is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 10:06 AM
  #28  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,556

So, MKingdom, what is it exactly that you always carry ? A jacket or a handbag ?

Sometimes I wear a jacket and sometimes not - whatever I feel is appropriate and comfortable at the time - but whether I'm wearing one or not, theres nothing I can do about the bulge in my trousers !
Mathieu is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 10:44 AM
  #29  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 33
not to beat a dead horse...but, i too am planning a trip to italy...my wife and i are 26...and plan on packing light...she does not care if i wear one or not...but i do not want to seem rude/un-kept...

to jacket or not to jacket...that is the question

and if i may, jeans to dinner or chinos only?
adamdj is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 11:30 AM
  #30  
ira
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,145
Hi adam,

>to jacket or not to jacket...that is the question

and if i may, jeans to dinner or chinos only?<

Choose your restaurant to match the clothing you plan on wearing.

For myself, I think jeans are too heavy and bulky for travel.

ira is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 11:49 AM
  #31  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,642
Don't take the jacket. If you opt for restaurants where you might feel more comfortable in a jacket, then buy one in Italy! It will be more stylish than the jacket you would have brought from home and you have a snazzy souvenir to take back with you.
If you must take a jacket from home, take the most fashionable one you can afford--check the sales for something by Zegna, for example. Make sure it's a jacket that looks good WITHOUT a tie...i.e., wear a really nice shirt (open *one* button) but no tie. In the big cities, I see lots of men wearing well cut jackets, well tailored shirts, but no tie. According to my colleagues in Milan, wearing a tie with a jacket these days for dinner (except for business functions) is viewed as provincial or something only older men do. I don't understand the logic, but that's what they tell me. And that's what the Italian men I work with tend to do...and believe me, they cut a serious bella figura.

As for gentlemen not taking phones in restaurants, such nonsense. My husband always carries his phone, sets it to vibrate, and if it's an urgent call from the office or a client, he goes outside to call them back briefly. Most of the Italians I work with are doctors and they always have their mobiles with them.
Blethering on your mobile in a restaurant is rude; merely keeping your mobile with you is not.
BTilke is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 12:00 PM
  #32  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,098
There are probably several groups. Like those who dress appropriately for place and occasion. I don't normally take a jacket unless I know I'll be going someplace where it is expected--that would be rare for me, but it does happen. 9 trips out of 10, I don't take a jacket.
RufusTFirefly is offline  
Jul 28th, 2005, 01:00 PM
  #33  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 86
Thanks to everyone who contributed their comments ...and also to those who were just having fun! Looks like I should flip a coin.
One wrinkle ( no pun intended) I suddenly remembered is our intent to visit casinos and the last time we were in Monte Carlo or Salzburg I had to " borrow a jacket and tie" before I was allowed to "donate' at the roulette tables. Has there been a change in these rules? Again that was a few years ago.
st2327 is offline  
Jul 29th, 2005, 02:22 AM
  #34  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,282
Budman : "Neiman Marcus and/or over 70" - I have absolutely no idea what this means ! I am not however over 70.

ira & flanneruk : *nobody* here has "insisted" that a jacket should be worn or said it is *required* : it's just that some people think it's nicer to wear one unless it would be out of place.

caroline_edinburgh is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy -

FODOR'S VIDEO

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:47 PM.