After much research, I have finalized (or I think I have anyways) my trip to Europe in mid-September. I have a night to play around with and was wondering if anyone thought I should change it.

This night would come from taking a night away from Prague and adding it somewhere else. This itinerary shows that we are spending more time in Prague than anywhere else. I am thinking that adding a night to Munich or St Wolfgang would be good but am not sure. We are excited to see the lake area but are not sure if one day is enough as we do want to see Hallstatt, Bad Ischl, St Gilgen and St Wolfgang.(We will have a car.) Also, not sure if there is much to see in Munich but it will be Oktoberfest. What does anyone think?

Day 1: Leave USA
Day 2: Arrive in Prague at 12:30pm. Afternoon/Evening in Prague (Night in Prague)
Day 3: Prague (Night in Prague)
Day 4: Prague (Night in Prague)
Day 5: Travel to Cesky Krumlov. Afternoon/Evening in CK. (Night in CK)
Day 6: Cesky Krumlov (Night in CK)
Day 7: Travel to Vienna. Afternoon/Evening in Vienna. (Night in Vienna)
Day 8: Vienna (Night in Vienna)
Day 9: Vienna: Day trip to Melk/Krems (Night in Vienna)
Day 10: Rent car in Vienna. Drive to St. Wolfgang. Stop at palace outside of Vienna on the way. Evening in Hallstatt?? (Night in St Wolfgang)
Day 11: Day around lakes area with car. (Night in St Wolfgang)
Day 12: Salzburg (Night in St Wolfgang)
Day 13: Drop car in Salzburg in morning. Train to Munich. Afternoon/Evening in Munich for Oktoberfest. (Night in Munich)
Day 14: Day Trip to Bavaria Castles. Evening in Munich. (Night in Munich)
Day 15: Leave for USA at 12:15pm. (A later flight so we figure we can spend the evening with the Oktoberfest parties and not have to be up super early.)

Thank You!!!!

I'd say on

Day 5: see Castle and town in CK
Day 6: see Theater at CK Castle (10am English tour) then go to Vienna
Day 10: Drive to Hallstatt and spend the night there.
Day 11: Drive to St. Wolfgang and spend night there
Day 12: Drive to Salzburg and spend night there and drop car on arrival
Day 13: Train to Munich

Sounds like a good choice - doing enough without rushing. On day 5 you can walk around Cesky Krumlov - a delightful place but not very big. On day 6 I would recommend renting a boat and paddlling down the Vltava to Zlata Korunna. It is a very easy ride and there are plenty of families with young children that do it. I would drop into one of the boat hire companies the night before to reserve a boat. September will be a great time as there are fewer tourists.
http://www.jeremytaylor.eu/cesky_krumlov_photos.htm
http://www.jeremytaylor.eu/prague_photos.html

Thanks for your replys. We are going to spend our full day in Cesky Krumlov paddling down the Vltava...have heard it is so fun!

I am just trying to figure out how much there is to do in the Lakes area and if it is worth taking a day away from Prague to spend another day in the Lakes. Thank you joannyc for the advice...mu hubby and I like to stay in one hotel as long as possible so we won't be spending a night "here and there" like you suggested in the Lakes/Salzburg area. So, we will be staying in either St Wolfgang or St Gilgen most likely.

So, is it worth taking a day away from Prague to add to the Lakes?

IMHO you already have too little time in Prague - which takes at least 3 full days for a basic trip. But then we're city people, enjoy music, concerts, museums as well as historic sights. Not that we have anything against scenery or cute little towns - just prefer larger cities.

I agree that one nighters are not ideal. I spent 2 nights each in Hallstatt and St. Wolfgang and 5 nights in Salzburg (in addition to more nights in other Austrian cities).

Granted, between these locations, travel time is only about 30-45 minutes but my line of thinking was that I'd like to see each of those places at night, have dinner, etc. after the day trippers have left. But I wouldn't want to drive some of those dark, curvy roads back to St. Wolfgang at night... especially after a couple glasses of wine! ;-)

Lots of people on this forum say that you lose 1/2 day when changing hotels... I travel for business 49-50 weeks per year, the other 2-3 weeks I travel on vacation. It takes me 10-15 minutes to pack up my stuff and check out. For a one nighter, I just need to pull out my clothes for that day and throw my pj's and toiletries back in the suitcase.

And you are traveling to Salzburg twice which doesn't seem like a good use of time to me.

But, whatever you decide, have a great time! Beautiful towns and cities!!! I've enjoyed them all!

Hi joannyc. We might stay our last night in Salzburg if we add a night onto the lakes area. That way we can drop the car in Salzburg and leave early for Munich the next morning so that we have as much time there as possible. Plus, we can enjoy Salzburg at night AND have wine...I agree with you about that. Kinda stinks when you want to drink but know you have to drive back.

Since you have been to St Wolfgang and Hallstatt...do you think that one full day and a half day are enough to see this Lakes area? (Not including our one full day in Salzburg) I would like to see Bad Ischl, St Gilgen, St Wolfgang and Hallstatt. It looks as if there are not ferries between St Gilgen and St Wolfgang and that we have to drive between the two???

I am thinking that we could spend the second half of the day in Hallstatt as the morning will be spent driving from Vienna to the Lakes area. The next day we could do Sts. Gilgen and Wolfgang and Bad Ischl..is one day enough for that or should we add on another and take a day away from Prague?

Boy, it's a tough call here.

No, I wouldn't take any time away from Prague (I'd add more if you had the time available!).

Hate to say this but I think with the time allowed you should drop Bad Ischl (it's on your way from Hallstatt to St. Wolfgang). It's a "larger" city than the small towns of St. Gilgen, St. Wolfgang and Hallstatt. The Kaiser Villa there is very nice but you need to take a guided tour so you could waste time waiting for that. I also walked around the city and had lunch (met a very friendly college student!) but wasn't totally impressed... it's OK, IMO.


Another option is to take away the second night in CK... spend 1/2 day on your second day in CK before heading to Vienna. Then leave Vienna to go to the lakes region a "1/2 day" earlier giving you an extra night there. But, you don't have much time in Vienna either... I just don't know what to advise here. But, don't miss Melk!!!


There is a boat/ferry between St. Wolfgang and St. Gilgen.

With only 1 1/2 days in the lakes region, I guess I'd do St. Wolfgang, St. Gilgen, and Hallstatt. And, I think, that is cutting them much too short. I don't think you'll have time for the steam train (St. Wolfgang), the cable car (St. Gilgen), or the salt mine (Hallstatt) due to all of the other interesting sites in each town.

Good luck in deciding! It's certainly a tough decision!

Hi joannyc. You are so very helpful on this. Thank You.

Do you know how the towns of St Gilgen and St Wolfgang compare in size to Cesky Krumlov? (I am assuming you have been to Cesky Krumlov since you are so well traveled but not sure.) I read that Cesky Krumlov is such a cute little town and want to canoe the river so that is why we might need a full day there. I am hoping that we can leave Prague early on the morning we travel to CK. That will dictate how much time we could fit into CK in a half day. To bus from Prague to CK it takes about 3.5 hours and the train takes 4 hours. I think is about a 2 hour drive and would prefer to do that. Do you know how we could do a car hire from Prague to CK so that we could bypass the bus/train?

I do want to do the cable car in St Gilgen. Hopefully can fit that in. So, do you think we could fit St Gilgen and St Wolfgang into one day? Maybe Strobl also? Do you know about how long it takes to ferry from town to town?

Sorry for the many questions. Planning this part of the trip has been very frustrating. There are not many good travel books out there on this lake area. I have found most of my info online.

Hi enlehman76,

Well, not sure how helpful I am being but I'm trying! LOL!

Yes, I spent one night in the gorgeous town of CK (it's a UNESCO World Heritage site)... it's probably about the same size as St. Gilgen but smaller than St. Wolfgang (which is still a small town). I took the bus from Prague to CK and it took longer than I expected (and what was scheduled). Think I took a 10am bus and didn't get to CK til sometime after 2pm. That afternoon, I did a tour of the castle then walked around the rest of the town, the cathedral, etc. (so many great photo ops in this town!) The following morning, I had a 10am tour of the baroque theater at the castle (one of the 4 remaining in the world) and then caught a 11am shuttle bus to Linz for the train to Vienna. Really not enough time for this great little town... I swore to myself that I will go back there some day!

I think you should spend 1 1/2 days in CK.

Yes, I think you could see St. Gilgen and St. Wolfgang in the same day. Ferry takes about 40 minutes between them. But, it will be a very full day with no down time to speak of. Drink beers on the boat!!! LOL!

I don't think you can fit Strobl in too. I drove thru it on my way from St. Wolfgang to Salzburg. It's really small... nothing to see (IMO... others will probably disagree) but some great photo ops of the lake and Mount Schafberg.

The car rental will be expensive if you plan to pick up in Prague and drop in Salzburg... one way rentals are ok within a country but dropping in another country adds a huge drop off fee.

If you have a GPS, I recommend that you download the Europe maps to it and take it with you.

You can use it in both driving and pedestrian modes.

joannyc...you and I are on the same page about liking our wine and beers and not having to drive.

OK...I am feeling much better about fitting everything in. I agree with you that driving back and forth to Salzburg does not make sense. We will most likely stay in Salzburg the night before we leave to go to Munich. We are picking the car up in Vienna and dropping it in Salzburg so we won't have to worry about the drop fee. Just using the car for the Lake area.

I am still having a hard time deciding about whether or not to shave a night off of Prague to add it to the Lakes area. I know I am having a hard time with this because last year we went to Lake Como (as part of an Italy trip) and spent two nights in Bellagio wishing we would have spent more!! We really like cities but are kind of museumed out and most of trip are cities.

In searching online, Lake Wolgangsee looks SO pretty but I am not sure if it is like Bellagio/Varenna/Lake Como which we liked so much. I am interested in hiking/walking/biking around the lake but we are not going to do any strenuous activities....would rather get some bottles of wine and hike a little to an area where we can drink them and take in the view!!! I am just trying to get an idea of the size of everything if we try to fit St Gilgen and St Wolfgang into one day and enjoy ourselves!! We are both in our early 30s and can move fast...jsut not sure if we want to in the lakes. So hard to decide.

I did some research on the travel options from Prague to Cesky Krumlov and it looks as if we can hire a shuttle bus that can get us there in 2-3 hours and will take us any time we want if we book far enough in advance. If that is the case, than I am thinking if we shaved a night off of Prague that we could at least enjoy a half day there before we left to go to CK. That way we would have a half day upon arrival, full day next day, and half day before we leave to go to CK.
In your opinion, which is your favorite...Prague, Vienna or Munich?

Also, which is better to stay in..St Gilgen or St Wolfgang?

Thank You again so much!! You are such a great help!! Your experiences in traveling must be SO helpful to many people!!

Have you booked your flights yet? Maybe you want to skip Munich this trip and put that onto a future Germany trip. How about flying into Prague and out of Vienna? It will save you some valuable travel time... more time to spend in places you will love.

I wouldn't take any time away from Prague, it is such a charming city. A lot of people say it is much like Paris... but I like it soooooo much more than Paris. It is smaller and there's a lot to do without the museums. If I could work up the nerve to go expat, I'd retire in Prague when the time comes (still too far away)! I loved it! I go hot and cold on museums... think I museum myself out at the beginning of a trip or sometimes just don't want to go to them. There is still a lot to see in Prague w/o the museums. But, you can find all that by searching the internet. It really doesn't feel like a large city.

I haven't been to northern Italy (only north as far as Venice) so I can't compare. But, I was in Austria's lake region in early to mid-October and it was pretty quiet. So much so, that most everything in St. Gilgen was already closed (store, restaurants, etc.) Luckily, I stayed in St. Wolfgang which is a bit larger and everything was open. I don't think there were more than a dozen people on my ferry to St. Gilgen! However, the steam train up the mountain was full. I didn't take the cable car in St. Gilgen so don't know about that.

You will find many places to hike or bike around there. I understand (didn't do it) that there is a lovely hike to an ancient pilgrimage church between St. Wolfgang and St. Gilgen. And, you can hike to Strobl from St. Wolfgang in around an hour... so you could see that also (or stop on your drive to Salzburg). Actually, I remember reading that you can hike around the entire lake... don't know how long it takes. And, if you add the wine in, you may want to consider the ferry back! LOL!

You can move pretty quickly thru the towns because they are small, it will be the ferry schedules that may cause a delay. I wouldn't waste my time and money again on the Mozart Haus in St. Gilgen... totally a waste IMO. But, the baroque church there was very nice. And, the church in St. Wolfgang was totally worth it! Bring coins to light up the altars, sculptures, etc.

I've heard that there are some shuttles between Prague and CK... I didn't know about them (or if they existed) when I was there a few years ago. I used the Lobo shuttle to go from CK to Linz where I caught the train to Vienna.

My absolute favorite of those choices was Prague, hands down! I spent 5 nights there and it wasn't enough.

I preferred staying in St. Wolfgang since it is a bit larger than St. Gilgen. It offers more places to stay, more restaurants, some music, etc. But, many people here on the Fodors site prefer to stay in St. Gilgen (many of the others on this board are older/retired so that may be the reason). I stayed at:

http://www.weisserhirsch.at/englisch...cken_frame.htm

I was traveling alone so had a single room which was small but very fine. But, the bathroom was a pretty good size and very modern. Had a nice flower-laden balcony. And, it was extremely clean... immaculate! Everything was in new shape. Fruit plate in my room upon arrival. Bought some cheese and wine and had a great appetizer on the balcony! Good breakfast with eggs to order. And, it is right on the Wolfgangsee in the heart of town.

It took me three trips to see these places...
1. Prague - Cesky Krumlov - Vienna - Budapest: 14 nights
2. Graz - Hallstatt - St. Wolfgang - Salzburg - Innsbruck: 15 nights
3. Munich - Fuessen - Rothenburg - Baden Baden - Heidelburg - Rudesheim - Cologne: 14 nights

So, don't try to do it all in one trip! ;-)

OK joannyc...you have convinced me. We will stay the 3 nights in Prague. The Lakes area sounds pretty small so I am sure we will get the most that we can out of it in the short time we have there. I am thinking staying in St Wolfgang is better, especially since we will most likely spend our last night in Salzburg instead of the lake. (Another great suggestion by you!!)

I did buy the air tix already, so flying into Prague and out of Munich can't be changed. I thought about doing what you suggested (into Prague and out of Vienna) but I did not want to miss the castles in Bavaria and really wanted to experience Octoberfest in Munich...even if for a short time. (Can't miss the beer drinking party, right?!?!?!?)

As far as shuttles from Prague to Cesky Krumlov and from CK to Linz or Vienna...Shuttle Lobo is the company I was looking at. Originally I was thinking we would do the shuttle from CK to Linz and then catch the train like you did...now I am thinking we should just hire them to take us from CK to Vienna. Just out of curiosity, why did you not have them take you to Vienna?

Thanks for the heads up on many of the people on this site being older. I am not sure how old you are, but you sound really fun!! The same mentality as my hubby and I when it comes to drinking, site-seeing, and having a good time!!

Cesky Krumlov is lovely but very small. I personally found that our day there was enough. I guess it depends on how much you want to linger.

I have a suggestion for day 9 and 10. You could easily stop in Melk/Krems on the way to the Salzkammergut, since you pretty much have to drive past it anyways to get from one to the other. I would be inclined to leave Vienna early in the morning, stop in the Wachau (we liked Durnstein much better than Krems, btw), tour the Abbey and get to the Salzkammergut late afternoon/early evening. This would free up a day in Vienna or to add in the lakes or elsewhere and makes sense logistically.

I agree about Bad Ischl. We've been through it several times and never really felt compelled to stop. I personally would stay in St. Gilgen as my base and then drive to St. Wolfgang and Hallstatt, just because it's a little better located for getting around the Salzkammergut and is a pretty town. And I'm only 30, btw, and first went when I was 25, so I am certainly not old and retired! I just thought it was pretty (prettier than Hallstatt, but that's just my opinion). You can do a nice, longer walk around the lake to enjoy the views.

Not sure if you are into this sort of thing, but there is a great summer luge in between the Wolfgangsee and Hallstatt that is a lot of fun. You sit on the cart and are pulled up the mountain, backwards, so you get this amazing view of the Wolfgangsee as you are going up. I have pictures from our most recent trip (in 08). If you are interested, they can be found at www.kodakgallery.com/tracybates. Just pan down to you get to the "Deutschland 08" album.

Happy planning!
Tracy

Hi Tracy. I looked at your pics. Your girls are beautiful!!!

Thanks for the suggestion about the Vienna/Melk/Krems area. With what I have read about the Melk/Krems area being so pretty...I was thinking that we would need a full day there. Can we really see all of that on our way to Lake Wolfgangsee and see Hallstatt in the late afternoon? Seems like alot to fit in with driving time and such.

I am hoping that we can leave Cesky Krumlov pretty early in the morning so that we get to Vienna at a decent hour. That way we have half the day to see Vienna as an add-on to the full day we will have there.

Only reason why I continue to mention shaving a night off of Prague is because we are spending more time there than anywhere else! And as you said, CK is quite small so having a day and a half there is more than enough time to see the town and canoe the river. I suppose we could shave a night off of Cesky Krumlov and only stay one night...just seems like there is alot of travel time between Prague, CK, and Vienna and a one nighter may not be ideal. I don't know. Is canoeing down the river in CK really that exciting? Should we skip it? I read Rick Steve's books and he makes it sound as if canoeing the river is SO fun! That is why I was planning a two nighter there. OK..now I am kinda confused. What to do???

Hi enlehman76,

LOL! Thank you. I spent the last 3 1/2 years in the same hotel for work purposes... and the wait staff at a couple of the restaurants thought that I was a bit of fun, too! So much so, that they invited me to their high school concerts, college plays, and a couple of us even went to see a Broadway play (I live in NYC and the client site was in NJ so we met in NYC for the day). I was staying there by myself but they would always seat me at a table for 6 so they (and the managers) could hang out with me while I was having dinner. Sweet, eh? I'm like Peter Pan... will never grow up! Enjoy having fun too much!

Anyway, back to your trip!

Lobo Shuttle didn't have those services to/from those cities when I took them about 4 years ago. I think they only offered the shuttle between CK and Linz. I would take them all the way to Vienna, if I were you. No sense in dragging luggage to/from shuttles, trains, subways and/or taxis if you don't need to!

I met a great younger guy on the Lobo shuttle from Hawaii who was doing a round-the-world trip, we talked the whole way to Linz (guess the other people thought we were rude or that we knew each other!), and even sat together on the train to Vienna after running into each other on the train platform.

If you do go to Neuschwanstein (sp? too lazy at this point to look it up!), there is a luge close by there, also.

As Tracy suggests, you could do Melk on your way to the lake region. I guess it's kind of a trade off between doing Melk or the Schönbrunn Palace on your way. Take a look at a map and see which works better. Schönbrunn Palace is just a subway ride away in Vienna, I believe (I didn't go... had already seen Versaille which it is based upon).

But, if you do Melk from Vienna, you'll want to do the train/boat combo. Take the train to Melk from Vienna and then return via boat to Krems (or Durnstein) and then take a train back to Vienna. But, whatever you do, don't miss Melk Abbey... totally jaw dropping! I was in the library when a guy walked in and said 'Oh my God!'... I looked at him and said 'that's an understatement!' Same holds true for the chapel! As well as all parts of the abbey!

Enjoy your trip!

Let me know if I can help with anything!

Thank you for your compliment on my girlies! They are now my reasons for not traveling nearly as often!

I forgot that you were planning on visiting Schonnbrunn Palace on your way out of Vienna. As Joannyc mentioned above, it can easily be viewed by subway from Vienna in probably as little as half a day.

We loved the Wachau but found that we could do plenty in our one day there. We actually did it as a daytrip from the Salzburg area. We stopped in Melk first to tour the abbey, and then we drove to Krems. We dropped the car and rented bikes and biked along the Danube (there is a great bike trail) stopping along the way to take in the views and explore the towns. When we got to the town of Spitz we hopped on the boat with our bikes and biked back to Krems, where we picked up our car. We were back in the Salzkammergut for dinner that night. I never really felt rushed, but I admit that I tend to travel a little faster than some of this board. We like to linger, but I don't feel the need to spend half a day in a tiny town. Here is some more information on boating and/or biking: http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/desti...chauvalley.htm.

I so agree about the Melk Abbey. Magnificent!

I do see your point about Cesky Krumlov and spending two nights. We daytripped there so it was a different situation. I also know what you are saying about the canoeing...he raves about it but really, I never found canoeing anywhere all that exciting! I'm from the midwest where everyone does float trips down the Missouri rives...I hated doing it there so I'm definitely anti-float trip on vacations! We chose to skip it, but we were there in early May so it wasn't really canoeing weather anyhow.

I have not been to Prague (yet!) but I know where you are coming from with that as well. As I mentioned above, we tend to travel a bit faster than many on this board and after a day or two we can usually see what we want to see and generally prefer countryside and smaller towns. I don't know if its that we are just efficient or we just don't linger in museums or whatever. My suggestion would be for you to go through your Prague guidebook and highlight everything that you are interested in doing and try to kind of estimate how long you think it will take you to do them. Definitely add in enough time to just walk around and soak in the atmosphere, as that's usually the most fun. Only you know how long you like to spend in churches or museums, so from there you can decide if you feel like that time in Prague is needed or not.

Good luck! You have a wonderful trip planned and you'll have a fabulous time regardless of how you choose to break up the days. I'm envious!

Tracy

We have been to St. Gilgen a couple of times (Sept. 2007 and Sept. 2009) and plan on stopping there again this Sept. for a couple of days.

We always stay at the Hotel Schernthaner in St. Gilgen. The owner is so sweet and treats all of her guests like family. She has a lot of repeat business. The location is right near the Zwölferhorn station but only a block from the town square and a few blocks to the lake.

http://www.hotel-schernthaner.at/sei...sh/index_e.htm

The Salzkammergut is a charming area and deserves as much time as you can give it. On this trip we are spending 2 nights in St. Gilgen and 2 nights in Hallstatt. We have been to Hallstatt at least a half dozen times but this is our first trip back in a few years.

You can find our photos on this website if you are interested:

2009: http://travel.webshots.com/album/574997901jcmXVZ

2007: http://travel.webshots.com/album/561038806XxDcvw

2005: http://travel.webshots.com/album/354616542PMkPVQ