Please do not think I am being critical or negative because that is not my intention.

It seems that though your daughter and her Grandparents may love each other very much, they really want different things from a trip, and thus are not truly compatible for this one the way it is planned. I know Grandparents want to do things with and for their grandkids, but your daughter may get more of what she wants by doing some short term student exchange type program. I know there are lots of them out there because I have hosted both a teacher and a student from Spain, each for a month. I met many of the students in the programs, and have known several kids who went to Europe and stayed with a family for a month in the summer. These are great for meeting people and working on language skills.

Another option would be a Homestay in Italy program. There are lots of them listed and there have been some discussions about them on Fodors. Many of them offer some language classes. Others open their homes for paying guests. Some are cheap and simple, some expensive and lux. Just google Homestay Italy. You can see pictures and read about the family. You might find a family with teens just for a week or so. You might also find a family where both your daughter and her Grandparents could stay and each do their own thing with a good base to work from.

The cost of doing that would probably be about the same as for the trip with Grandparents. If they are paying for it, would they consider giving her the personal, educational experience she desires?

Both Suze and k9korps are right about it not being too likely that your daughter, as a stranger, will meet anyone really nice to actually chat with. I would certainly be careful about that, unless the Grandparents are with her.

As long as you stay in each place for long enough (the 1 or 2 nights of a tour won't do it) young people have no trouble meeting others. Each city has student coffee houses, cafe and pubs - where she can go to meet others - and as long as she has reasonable street smarts she should have no problems. My daughters did this in London and Paris - several evenings went out after dinner - while we went back to the hotel to relax.

They had a great time and one is still in touch with a girl she met in London - who shares her interest in marine biology. Only you know i f your daughter is ready to navigate major capitals of europe on her own for the evening (we had no problem, but the girls ad traveled a lot and were used to NYC).

It is normal for Italians to chit-chat with strangers when they are waiting for a bus or waiting on line at the market. Italians take the attitude that to ignore someone standing next to you is rather rude. It looks snobby, as if someone else weren't worth your time, or beneath your status.

People talk to me all the time in Italy -- and they can plainly see I am not Italian. They did that even when it became obvious I didn't speak as much Italian as I do now. The conversations were initiated about the weather, or that the bus was late, or other such social banter. But of course they also were quite eager to talk about America or my travels in Italy.

If your daughter will be miserable sightseeing all day (there is nothing immature about that; most adults hate it too), time to have a heart to heart with the grandparents. Your daughter is old enough to have a big say in how she spends her time. If she has special interests -- like fashion or music -- the grandparents should be willing to learn something new and surprising about Italy that excites your daughter.

The piazze of Italy are nice, safe, big public spaces enjoyed by people of ages, especially between 5pm and 7pm every day. Teenagers often congregate in one corner, parents and grandparents within eyesight. What I'm reading above is really incorrect. If your daughter would like to join the early evening fun in Italian towns and cities, she can safely go there with her grandparents and strike up conversations with Italians her own age, and fellow traveling tourists her own age. Young people quickly make friends.

suze: I'll try to answer your questions/comments.

"Why would a local start talking to tourists when they are eating dinner in a local restaurant?"
Because that's what they do, and I speak from experience. The trick is to find something in common. (Maybe you've ordered the same meal.)

"Why would a person going about their every-day life start chatting with strangers, who do not even speak their language?"
See above.

"In taking a class or a tour, your guide at least would be local. That is a place to start."
Why would a guide/instructor be interested in meeting and socializing with more tourists after conducting daily classes with groups of tourists?


"

vabarone,

It seems your daughter's idea of going to Italy is very different from her grandparents. IMO it's not very realistic that in that kind of trip she'll have any meaningful experience "hanging out" with the locals. For a young person her age a good way to achieve immersion on the culture and contact with locals is a program such as language study with a homestay. My son and daughter did this as teenagers, albeit in Spain, and tremendously enjoyed it. It's a structured program for a few hours a day, but then they have freedom to meet other young people and "hang out" as well as practice the language. Staying with a local family also helps with this.

How long a tour is everyone looking at? And - not to put too fine a point on it - how (in)expensive a tour?

Two days each in four cities does not leave much time to hang out, and inexpensive tours often use hotels that are far from the center and from any place where local kids might hang out.

k9~ And I'll try to address your answers. If you don't speak the local language, I don't see how you'll strike up a conversation with a local person about the meal you've both ordered. I'm talking about making contacts, that a local tour guide might be willing to give advice if you asked about other local events or places to make connections, not that they themselves are your new best friend.

For the OP~ I do have one possibly helpful idea. Research in advance on the internet. Maybe you can find a student or "Friends of..." type organizations or where she might arrange in advance to meet a group of other young people. I'm thinking how adults do with 'couchsurfing' and similar.

<concerned about is spending her days touring churches, and art musuems and historical sites>

My other idea is to get her involved. Have her do some research online or using guidebooks and let her pick a place or two in each location that she IS interested in seeing. Maybe something less mainstream but that interests her. A street market, public gardens, bike tour, more obscure site, monument or musem, or particular event and make sure some of her particular wishes somehow get included in the plan.

suze: <i>"If you don't speak the local language, I don't see how you'll strike up a conversation with a local person about the meal you've both ordered."</i>

julia1: <i>"most young people in the cities we</i> [my teenage daughter and I] <i>visited spoke English to one degree or another, having studied it in school and grown up watching a lot of American television. And they wanted to speak 'American' with her, not their own language."</i>

Personal experience, not conjecture, not opinion.

I don't believe k9korps is a teenager.

Suze: <i>"I don't believe k9korps is a teenager."</i>

?????

suze: <i>"If you don't speak the local language, I don't see how you'll strike up a conversation with a local person about the meal you've both ordered."</i>

I do it all the time when traveling and I'm no teenager either. It just works. Don't know how, don't know why, don't care how or why, just like it. Try it. You might like it too.

Can we drop this please? And no I don't plan on interrupting strangers having dinner in a restaurant in Italy by trying to chat with them. I wouldn't do that at home either.

Some of the best experiences I had in Rome involved talking with the people who were seated near us in restaurants-Italians, Americans, Spanish and Canadian. I must have an Italian soul, as I routinely talk to people on buses, trains, waiting in line, etc. even though being English I was brought up to shun conversations with strangers.

I think if Grandpa and Grandma are willing to take 16 year old to Italy I'd say what a lucky kid she is and enjoy it with Grandpa and Grandma and 60 year olds can have a really good time and yes even with 16 year olds. Or hey I know of many many kids that would love the opportunity to go and would not mind being with those old 60 year olds at all.
Tell her to have fun...she will no matter what she does...

(Inner groan.) I'm turning 60 this year, and I would love-love-love to take my 16-year-old great niece to Italy, and I'm sure she would have a great time. I don't think vabarone's daughter will have any trouble at all finding young people wherever they go, but the other kids won't all (or even most) be Italian unless she stays in a teensy-weensy town that most people here haven't heard of. There's something about 16 year olds all over the world. They are magnets for other 16 year olds, especially of the opposite sex. As old as I am, I know this from personal experience.

Please Please 60 years old is NOT old!!! I have many friends of all ages and there is something to be learned from all of them!!! Daughter will have fun no matter what she does plus she gets to have a treasury of memories with Grandma and Grandpa.

"Can we drop this please? And no I don't plan on interrupting strangers having dinner in a restaurant in Italy by trying to chat with them. I wouldn't do that at home either."

Is this the suze version of "I want the last word"? OK, you go it.

No, please, you all feel free to continue the discussion.

I'm just asking not to be called out by someone who doesn't know me. <I believe she is writing about her experience as an adult, and it says more about her own style of travel than it does about all the 'locals' she didn't meet.>