Is Naples crime that bad?
Dec 26th, 2004, 05:05 AM
#41
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bellastar: Cassandra specifically asked "Those of you familiar with crimes against tourists in Naples, can you comment specifically on the train station?"
My answer was only my experiences at the train station and not of the entire city of Naples. So it's my 1st hand info in a pretty narrowed down area.
Point-of-views, same man, to tip or not tip is a moot point when you have some lowlife in your face whose career choice is to physically intimidate tourists who refuse help (or don't tip your partner) which in my case was for useless info that I neither asked for nor wanted.
Again that was my 1st hand experience but I have observed these 'blue smocked' arguing with tourists over tips. Perhaps my "verbally threating" choice of words was too strong.
And there is also a well dressed older man who hangs out by the Trenitalia Departure Board offering help for tips. I have refused his help a couple of times along with the 'blue smocked' fake employees with no repercussions.
But sticking with just Italy, IME Naples Centrale Station is unlike Termini, Florence, Venice and even Milan as far as cons and crime are concerned.
And the Piazza Garibaldi in front of the station has quite the cast of characters
. Junkies and blatantly open drug dealers and a stop for the 'needle exchange' van. That isn't a good combination in a train station area and again unlike say Termini.
My Circumvesuviana attempted robbery experience, that was almost 3 yrs ago and I've never mentioned it before. Mainly because I knew others would say "it could happen anywhere (in Italy)" and I don't completely agree with that. It's possible but *alot* more likely in Naples.
I didn't believe the warnings about the station and admit to my actions being very foolish.
Also I admit to being afraid when I realized that those 2 young men were following and watching me very intently (I was 1st approached on the platform by 1 of them who asked something about the time & train and then for a cigarette. Later I held back and let him get into the car before me [I fell something was amiss] and then I walked over to another seperate car).
When He, now with an accomplice joined me in my car I knew I had to get off that that train alone or I was in for a very bad 1st hand experience
.
And just a couple of other points: I have befriended locals north of Naples and told them I was going to visit Naples. In my 3 experiences their advice was all the same "Be careful, Naples is very dangerous". Cultural bias or sound advice?
Also I believe it was GAC? that mentioned awhile back about a Japanese tourist that got off at the wrong Circumvesuviana station and it ended very badly for him (no details but it sounded very serious, robbed/assaulted/killed?).
Sorry for being so longwinded but I believe that it is alot easier for a tourist in Naples esp in the station to get jammed-up. From losing a few euro to a con-man which is minor, it's the intimiation factor that I despise. To possibly being physically assaulted and robbed.
Regards, Walter
My answer was only my experiences at the train station and not of the entire city of Naples. So it's my 1st hand info in a pretty narrowed down area.
Point-of-views, same man, to tip or not tip is a moot point when you have some lowlife in your face whose career choice is to physically intimidate tourists who refuse help (or don't tip your partner) which in my case was for useless info that I neither asked for nor wanted.
Again that was my 1st hand experience but I have observed these 'blue smocked' arguing with tourists over tips. Perhaps my "verbally threating" choice of words was too strong.
And there is also a well dressed older man who hangs out by the Trenitalia Departure Board offering help for tips. I have refused his help a couple of times along with the 'blue smocked' fake employees with no repercussions.
But sticking with just Italy, IME Naples Centrale Station is unlike Termini, Florence, Venice and even Milan as far as cons and crime are concerned.
And the Piazza Garibaldi in front of the station has quite the cast of characters
. Junkies and blatantly open drug dealers and a stop for the 'needle exchange' van. That isn't a good combination in a train station area and again unlike say Termini.My Circumvesuviana attempted robbery experience, that was almost 3 yrs ago and I've never mentioned it before. Mainly because I knew others would say "it could happen anywhere (in Italy)" and I don't completely agree with that. It's possible but *alot* more likely in Naples.
I didn't believe the warnings about the station and admit to my actions being very foolish.
Also I admit to being afraid when I realized that those 2 young men were following and watching me very intently (I was 1st approached on the platform by 1 of them who asked something about the time & train and then for a cigarette. Later I held back and let him get into the car before me [I fell something was amiss] and then I walked over to another seperate car).
When He, now with an accomplice joined me in my car I knew I had to get off that that train alone or I was in for a very bad 1st hand experience
.And just a couple of other points: I have befriended locals north of Naples and told them I was going to visit Naples. In my 3 experiences their advice was all the same "Be careful, Naples is very dangerous". Cultural bias or sound advice?
Also I believe it was GAC? that mentioned awhile back about a Japanese tourist that got off at the wrong Circumvesuviana station and it ended very badly for him (no details but it sounded very serious, robbed/assaulted/killed?).
Sorry for being so longwinded
but I believe that it is alot easier for a tourist in Naples esp in the station to get jammed-up. From losing a few euro to a con-man which is minor, it's the intimiation factor that I despise. To possibly being physically assaulted and robbed.Regards, Walter
Dec 26th, 2004, 05:22 AM
#42
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Walter,
All your points all well taken.
To Cassandra, specifically, my opinion is,
don't try to be especially rude, if that's not natural for you. Don't wear expensive jewelry. (I don't even take this on my trips) Watch your bags. (I try to travel very light)
To get to the Circumsuviana train, you won't need to exit the station, just go downstairs. You can always find a policeman to ask if it's not obvious immediately. (I never had a problem finding the way,even the first time). The ticket booth is on the way. This is a main commuter train that carries working people to and from Naples, Not all of the people in the train are "low-lifes" but many might not be wealthy. If you're going to Sorrento, it's the last stop. Don't go at night, if you can help it.
And these would be my exact same instructions for catching a subway out if Grand Central Stration or Penn Station in NYC.
Wishing you happy future travels, Walter!
All your points all well taken.
To Cassandra, specifically, my opinion is,
don't try to be especially rude, if that's not natural for you. Don't wear expensive jewelry. (I don't even take this on my trips) Watch your bags. (I try to travel very light)
To get to the Circumsuviana train, you won't need to exit the station, just go downstairs. You can always find a policeman to ask if it's not obvious immediately. (I never had a problem finding the way,even the first time). The ticket booth is on the way. This is a main commuter train that carries working people to and from Naples, Not all of the people in the train are "low-lifes" but many might not be wealthy. If you're going to Sorrento, it's the last stop. Don't go at night, if you can help it.
And these would be my exact same instructions for catching a subway out if Grand Central Stration or Penn Station in NYC.
Wishing you happy future travels, Walter!
Dec 26th, 2004, 06:11 AM
#43
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"Wishing you happy future travels, Walter!"
Thanks bellastar, perhaps I'll go down to Naples for a few days next March and have some more tales to tell.
My 'lowlife' comment was only directed against that big boy that tried to intimidate/extort me which did anger me quite a bit.
I realize with an unemployment rate of ~25% in Naples that perhaps these men have no choice in the matter. And I am always a soft touch for panhandlers who are down on their luck either thru fate or their own poor judgement.
So I should be more compassionate to them who are attempting to provide a service for tips.
'Rude' perhaps I should ammend to just say "No thank you" if you don't want to be helped.
My stand-off with that young man which I thought was going physical has perhaps jaded my judgement in regards to the other harmless men offering help for tips in the station.
But I'm still not too forgiving of my attempted robbers on the Circumvesuviana regardless of what hand life has dealt them.
Thanks for another insight. Regards, Walter
Thanks bellastar, perhaps I'll go down to Naples for a few days next March and have some more tales to tell
.My 'lowlife' comment was only directed against that big boy that tried to intimidate/extort me which did anger me quite a bit.
I realize with an unemployment rate of ~25% in Naples that perhaps these men have no choice in the matter. And I am always a soft touch for panhandlers who are down on their luck either thru fate or their own poor judgement.
So I should be more compassionate to them who are attempting to provide a service for tips.
'Rude' perhaps I should ammend to just say "No thank you" if you don't want to be helped.
My stand-off with that young man which I thought was going physical has perhaps jaded my judgement in regards to the other harmless men offering help for tips in the station.
But I'm still not too forgiving of my attempted robbers on the Circumvesuviana regardless of what hand life has dealt them
.Thanks for another insight. Regards, Walter
Dec 26th, 2004, 06:57 AM
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Train stations in big cities in general are not nice places to be- but that's not to ay they are good indicators of the entire metropolitan area of the city. Often times it's a matter of personal experience. I've never been approached in the naples train station, although it's a very seedy place and I wouldn't want to hang around outside of the station for long. Personally, I've found the Paris station (nord) to be much worse- from the train to the exit is a gauntlet of beggars and other people approaching you (there are people who loitter around the ATMs). I'm sure others have found that station to be fine.
In any large train station one should be vigilant, cautious and keep a low profile.
This thread began with the question "is Naples crime that bad?" The answer is probably yeah, it is bad in some areas of the city, including around the train station. However, the question really should be "is the chance of being victimized as a tourist doing normal tourist things in Naples high enough to avoid the city?" The answer is most definitely no.
In any large train station one should be vigilant, cautious and keep a low profile.
This thread began with the question "is Naples crime that bad?" The answer is probably yeah, it is bad in some areas of the city, including around the train station. However, the question really should be "is the chance of being victimized as a tourist doing normal tourist things in Naples high enough to avoid the city?" The answer is most definitely no.
Dec 26th, 2004, 12:19 PM
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Walter, I agree wholeheartedly with all your statements, well said. That is a bit intimidating to know that they are trying those activities against you and you describe yourself as a big man. Woe to the slight, unsuspecting tourist with two men against one (Japanese tourist as aforementioned).
Oh, I neglected to mention last summer, one of those very blue-smocked "train-looking" guys came up beside me and grabbed my suitcase out of my hand as I was walking towards my train car (carrozza 8). I speak Italian and he presumed I was from Rome and kept talking on and on about me going back to Rome. As a mother, I am used to lugging a stroller, a heavy suitcase and holding my child's hand, so carrying all those items is normal procedure for me when traveling. What I initially took as a friendly gesture from a man helping out a woman with child, actually became rude when I insisted that he leave me in peace (pace), grazie. I reached to get my suitcase back and he was pulling it away from me. I kept grabbing for it and wrestled it away from him after about 3 attempts. He was very angry that I didn't tip him - after all that! What audacity. I was even more alarmed that something would happen to my 3 year old child staring on in bewilderment. That incident provided an interesting exit for Naples.
Anyway, true enough, train stations anywhere are not the best places; however, one's experience as a traveler doesn't have to be an unsavory one if there were more diligence on the part of the police patrolling the area to curb some of the more "enthusiastic" people that want to "help" tourists. IMO, no other train station I have been to in Europe - Paris Nord included - has such aggressive behavior against tourists in transit. Thankfully, once outside and away from the vicinity of Napoli Centrale station and Piazza Garibaldi, one can actually enjoy what the city has to offer.
Oh, I neglected to mention last summer, one of those very blue-smocked "train-looking" guys came up beside me and grabbed my suitcase out of my hand as I was walking towards my train car (carrozza 8). I speak Italian and he presumed I was from Rome and kept talking on and on about me going back to Rome. As a mother, I am used to lugging a stroller, a heavy suitcase and holding my child's hand, so carrying all those items is normal procedure for me when traveling. What I initially took as a friendly gesture from a man helping out a woman with child, actually became rude when I insisted that he leave me in peace (pace), grazie. I reached to get my suitcase back and he was pulling it away from me. I kept grabbing for it and wrestled it away from him after about 3 attempts. He was very angry that I didn't tip him - after all that! What audacity. I was even more alarmed that something would happen to my 3 year old child staring on in bewilderment. That incident provided an interesting exit for Naples.
Anyway, true enough, train stations anywhere are not the best places; however, one's experience as a traveler doesn't have to be an unsavory one if there were more diligence on the part of the police patrolling the area to curb some of the more "enthusiastic" people that want to "help" tourists. IMO, no other train station I have been to in Europe - Paris Nord included - has such aggressive behavior against tourists in transit. Thankfully, once outside and away from the vicinity of Napoli Centrale station and Piazza Garibaldi, one can actually enjoy what the city has to offer.
Dec 26th, 2004, 03:22 PM
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I am a 40-something woman who has been to Naples several times and never had a problem. Maybe it's because I was raised in NYC and am naturally street smart (and don't carry a purse), or maybe it's because I had learned enough Italian to turn and speak to any suspicious people (and there were a few) before they targeted me. I also visited with my teenage daughter, and aside from complimentary comments from the young men, she also had a non-eventful visit. That included taking the Cicumvesuviana from Naples to Pompeii. We met some wonderful people.
On the other hand, one of my other traveling companions was pickpocked in Rome just minutes after arriving there. You just can't be too sure anywhere.
On the other hand, one of my other traveling companions was pickpocked in Rome just minutes after arriving there. You just can't be too sure anywhere.
Dec 27th, 2004, 11:15 AM
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Many people use Centrale in order to go to Sorrento via the Circumvesuviana. Those who are staying in Naples or taking the ferry to Capri might consider taking a ES train to Mergellina instead. Smaller station with very few people hanging about. many taxis and buses at the entrance.
Dec 28th, 2004, 12:24 PM
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I'm from Naples, so maybe i can give you a little help. First: the Camorra war it's happening just in Secondigliano, an orrible, poor quarter where even neapolitans never go. So, if you'll came here, probably you'll not feel about Camorra and her crime. About the city, what can i say: is one of the must beautiful places in the world! At present i live in Bologna, a nice, small city that the polls say is the better place to live in Italy. I was robbed once in my life in Italy, and it was in Bologna, never in Naples. I don't want to say that Naples is safe, but is not bad as many peaple say.I agree about the caution with jewelry and any expensive things, but i think it's normal in a big city. Naples is not just the city of the pizza and the chaos, it's a place rich of art, culture, wonderful panoramas and nice peaple. I felt a little bit unsafe even in Morocco and Lisboa (where i've been robbed), but i would like to return to visit that wonderful places. So, give a chance to our bautyful city, with a little attention. A last advice: a good way to stay in Naples is to respect the law. If you will buy a stolen mobile phone - or anything else - in the street at a very good price from someone unreliable , be sure that inside probably it will be just clay. It happen just around the central railstation, a place unsafe but with a nice market (ask about it, is colled "Duchesca"
where you can find a lot of italian clothes at a very good price.
where you can find a lot of italian clothes at a very good price.
Dec 28th, 2004, 01:42 PM
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Nausicaa979:
I am so happy that this thread discussing Naples appeared, if only to attract your wonderful comments on your home city of Napoli, a city which I love, but it's always much better to hear things spoken by someone who is from there!
I hope the warmth of your message will reach all of those reading this thread, and take away whatever doubts they have about the wonderful people of Naples, and give some common sense to things!!
And thank you for the advice about cell phones filled with clay! Although I have walked around the Duchesca, I had not yet heard of that trick!
Buon Anno!
I am so happy that this thread discussing Naples appeared, if only to attract your wonderful comments on your home city of Napoli, a city which I love, but it's always much better to hear things spoken by someone who is from there!
I hope the warmth of your message will reach all of those reading this thread, and take away whatever doubts they have about the wonderful people of Naples, and give some common sense to things!!
And thank you for the advice about cell phones filled with clay! Although I have walked around the Duchesca, I had not yet heard of that trick!
Buon Anno!
Feb 8th, 2005, 01:22 AM
#53
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I am an American and live in Napoli as a US Government employee on the base. I speak fluent Italian and my spouse is from Salerno the next province south. For our entire marriage he would not bring me to Naples because of the life long fears of the place.
After living here, I would say that missing Naples on vacation is fine. There are better examples of Italian culture. Now by any means I am not knocking Naples. I have made many wonderful friendships here and met some wonderful people. However, as a traveler the dangers and risks severely outweigh the benefits of Napoli. Pompeii is a great day trip but the town near there Stabbia...full of Mafia and very dangerous. 23 people were killed here during December and babies get kidnapped for organ harvesting. You need to know where and where not to be in Naples and even officers with body guards have had their watches and personal effects wripped off their bodies. The theives are brilliant here in Naples and you will never know you were ripped off. Now my husband and I have made it with a Cartier, Rolex and diamond...knock on wood, I have two days left,with no problem. But we are careful to leave them covered and I turn my rings while in public so only the metal shows. My boss had his arm out the window and someone came up and ripped it off his wrist...well they tried but he is 6'4" and he got out and beat the guy up. Go to Amalfi, Positano, Roma, Firenze. You can easily be robbed there as well. In Italy as a rule: women buy a small bag that can be put over your shoulder under a jacket and fit snuggly under your arm. Never carry a bag that does not have a zipper closure. NO Fanny packs. MEN: put a personal tissue pack in your back pocket and get a vest that has a chest pocket for your wallet. Keep everything there. Leave all your jewelry at home. DON'T BUY ANY ELECTRONIC ANYTHING FROM STREET VENDORS. DON'T FEEL SORRY FOR THE BEGGARS. DON'T EVEN LOOK AT THEM AND DO NOT STOP TO TALK TO THEM, THEY WILL BE ROBBING YOU!!!!!
After living here, I would say that missing Naples on vacation is fine. There are better examples of Italian culture. Now by any means I am not knocking Naples. I have made many wonderful friendships here and met some wonderful people. However, as a traveler the dangers and risks severely outweigh the benefits of Napoli. Pompeii is a great day trip but the town near there Stabbia...full of Mafia and very dangerous. 23 people were killed here during December and babies get kidnapped for organ harvesting. You need to know where and where not to be in Naples and even officers with body guards have had their watches and personal effects wripped off their bodies. The theives are brilliant here in Naples and you will never know you were ripped off. Now my husband and I have made it with a Cartier, Rolex and diamond...knock on wood, I have two days left,with no problem. But we are careful to leave them covered and I turn my rings while in public so only the metal shows. My boss had his arm out the window and someone came up and ripped it off his wrist...well they tried but he is 6'4" and he got out and beat the guy up. Go to Amalfi, Positano, Roma, Firenze. You can easily be robbed there as well. In Italy as a rule: women buy a small bag that can be put over your shoulder under a jacket and fit snuggly under your arm. Never carry a bag that does not have a zipper closure. NO Fanny packs. MEN: put a personal tissue pack in your back pocket and get a vest that has a chest pocket for your wallet. Keep everything there. Leave all your jewelry at home. DON'T BUY ANY ELECTRONIC ANYTHING FROM STREET VENDORS. DON'T FEEL SORRY FOR THE BEGGARS. DON'T EVEN LOOK AT THEM AND DO NOT STOP TO TALK TO THEM, THEY WILL BE ROBBING YOU!!!!!
Feb 8th, 2005, 01:38 AM
#54
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Some of the phrases and expression you use make me wonder where you are from in America. Your descriptions, phrasing and stories sound so much like ones I heard from a private guide when visiting there! The only one I hadn't heard before was the story about babies being kidnapped, but all the others sound so familiar, how interesting!
Feb 8th, 2005, 02:19 AM
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Babies kidnapped??!!!
There was just one 3 years old little girl that disapeared in 1999, and that was on the Amalfi Coast. The girl was never found, the story shoked all Italy, and time to time the medias still speak about that story: Last month a little 8 year old gypsy girl who was beggin in the streets has been seen by some people as very similar with Angela (the little disapeared neapolitan 3 year old). The gypsie was stopped by Police, and since she had the same age as Angela would have today, they made on her the DNA test, but unfortunatly it turned out she wasn't Angela...
In September of this year another 4 year old girl disapeared in Palermo (Sicily). That made another big news in the italian medias, and that brought back Angela's story.
Those two little girls have been most probably kidnapped, lots of suppositions have been made on both cases, and a couple of papers talked also about the organ's market, but that seems very unlikely to be in western countries, organs'market happens more in south americas or asian countries where you have thousands of abandoned children in the streets, and where their disappearences make no news. Much more difficult in Italy where you get the attention of the entire country's audience.
There was just one 3 years old little girl that disapeared in 1999, and that was on the Amalfi Coast. The girl was never found, the story shoked all Italy, and time to time the medias still speak about that story: Last month a little 8 year old gypsy girl who was beggin in the streets has been seen by some people as very similar with Angela (the little disapeared neapolitan 3 year old). The gypsie was stopped by Police, and since she had the same age as Angela would have today, they made on her the DNA test, but unfortunatly it turned out she wasn't Angela...
In September of this year another 4 year old girl disapeared in Palermo (Sicily). That made another big news in the italian medias, and that brought back Angela's story.
Those two little girls have been most probably kidnapped, lots of suppositions have been made on both cases, and a couple of papers talked also about the organ's market, but that seems very unlikely to be in western countries, organs'market happens more in south americas or asian countries where you have thousands of abandoned children in the streets, and where their disappearences make no news. Much more difficult in Italy where you get the attention of the entire country's audience.
Feb 8th, 2005, 07:16 AM
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Yesterday's update on the gang wars in Naples:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer
