Is a 9 sq metre room very small?
Dec 17th, 2006, 08:39 PM
#23
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Or simply multiply the square meters by 10.76348 and get 96.87. Not everybody is ignorant of metric conversions.
You can use 10.8 for less exacting calculations such as these, or go to a scientific computer with a 64-bit real number register if you need more. Or even a 128 bit register.
Not sure what NASA uses for interplanetary exploration.
You can use 10.8 for less exacting calculations such as these, or go to a scientific computer with a 64-bit real number register if you need more. Or even a 128 bit register.
Not sure what NASA uses for interplanetary exploration.
Dec 18th, 2006, 09:50 AM
#24
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I thought you didn't know how big that was, literally, as did the others.
I probably didn't word my last post the best, as I knew the Delavigne was a 3* hotel, but since you asked about 2/3 stars, I meant a more general statement that 9 m2 is probably not unusually small for many hotels in that lower price range for a single room. That's why I won't book single rooms in Parisian hotels because they are too small for me (and often are in terrible locations and have other issues, although you never know, you might get lucky), but I can easily afford to pay for the lower price range of a double in hotels I stay at.
I've never had a hotel refuse to tell me the size of their rooms, either, I wouldn't even think much of a hotel that refused to tell me (or claimed they "didn't know" and wouldn't find out). First, I think they have to know for the Parisian hotel inspectors, as one of the factors in their rating is based on that. It's just a common thing hotels know, and if they don't, they definitely should or should go find out.
This is the official standard for SINGLE hotel room by hotel star rating (this is the usable hotel room surface, not including the bathroom:
1-2* 8 m2
3* 9 m2
4* or 4*L 10 m2
this is the required size for a double room:
1-2* 9 m2
3* 10 m2
4* 12 m2
4*L 14 m2
The required size of the bathroom varies, also, going up a little with every star (e.g., 1.75 m2 for a 2*, 2.5 m2 for a 3*, 3 m2 for a 4*).
Anyway, I would say that lots of singles are probably that small in budget Paris hotels, yes. That is basically just a couple feet free around the bed. For example, I was in a single in the 2* Hotel Muguet, which had a double bed (as many single rooms do). I would say that there was probably one foot free on one side of the bed, maybe two feet on the other side and perhaps 3-4 feet at the foot. So it was probably about an 8 x 10 foot room or about 8 or 8.5 m2.
I probably didn't word my last post the best, as I knew the Delavigne was a 3* hotel, but since you asked about 2/3 stars, I meant a more general statement that 9 m2 is probably not unusually small for many hotels in that lower price range for a single room. That's why I won't book single rooms in Parisian hotels because they are too small for me (and often are in terrible locations and have other issues, although you never know, you might get lucky), but I can easily afford to pay for the lower price range of a double in hotels I stay at.
I've never had a hotel refuse to tell me the size of their rooms, either, I wouldn't even think much of a hotel that refused to tell me (or claimed they "didn't know" and wouldn't find out). First, I think they have to know for the Parisian hotel inspectors, as one of the factors in their rating is based on that. It's just a common thing hotels know, and if they don't, they definitely should or should go find out.
This is the official standard for SINGLE hotel room by hotel star rating (this is the usable hotel room surface, not including the bathroom:
1-2* 8 m2
3* 9 m2
4* or 4*L 10 m2
this is the required size for a double room:
1-2* 9 m2
3* 10 m2
4* 12 m2
4*L 14 m2
The required size of the bathroom varies, also, going up a little with every star (e.g., 1.75 m2 for a 2*, 2.5 m2 for a 3*, 3 m2 for a 4*).
Anyway, I would say that lots of singles are probably that small in budget Paris hotels, yes. That is basically just a couple feet free around the bed. For example, I was in a single in the 2* Hotel Muguet, which had a double bed (as many single rooms do). I would say that there was probably one foot free on one side of the bed, maybe two feet on the other side and perhaps 3-4 feet at the foot. So it was probably about an 8 x 10 foot room or about 8 or 8.5 m2.
Dec 18th, 2006, 10:49 AM
#26
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yes, you do have a huge room by Paris standards, are you sure about that? Those are the MINIMUM stds to get a hotel rating, of course, rooms can be larger than that (list above). I know the hotel I usually stay in, a modest 3* in Montparnasse has doubles larger than the minimum criteria, but some of the cheaper hotels really have small rooms, as well as some in the very central areas (like the Marais or St Germain or Latin Qtr).
Of course you can get a double room of 34 m2 if you pay enough, but that is larger than some of the studio apts. people ask about renting on here (some studio vacation apts are only about 20-25 m2).
I didn't think you were staying in a hotel, though, but an aparthotel, so to speak. That's still pretty big for a studio in one of those, but I think you are staying in a noncentral area in a modern building, all of that makes a difference. Also, you are paying a lot for it, aren't you? Maybe I am remembering wrong, I thought you were staying at the Home Plazza 4* place in the 11th, and the website says those rooms start at around 300 euro a night. That used to be the Home Plazza Bastille, they must have renovated as it wasn't a 3*. Those "classic" room suites were only 15-18 m2, also, from what I read on a web site describing them. That was the cheapest room category, though. The next highest room level was only about 22 m2.
So, Mr Dreamer, what kind of room are you getting there and did you get some special discount? Maybe that would help some other folks who want some kitchenette facilities in Paris.
Of course you can get a double room of 34 m2 if you pay enough, but that is larger than some of the studio apts. people ask about renting on here (some studio vacation apts are only about 20-25 m2).
I didn't think you were staying in a hotel, though, but an aparthotel, so to speak. That's still pretty big for a studio in one of those, but I think you are staying in a noncentral area in a modern building, all of that makes a difference. Also, you are paying a lot for it, aren't you? Maybe I am remembering wrong, I thought you were staying at the Home Plazza 4* place in the 11th, and the website says those rooms start at around 300 euro a night. That used to be the Home Plazza Bastille, they must have renovated as it wasn't a 3*. Those "classic" room suites were only 15-18 m2, also, from what I read on a web site describing them. That was the cheapest room category, though. The next highest room level was only about 22 m2.
So, Mr Dreamer, what kind of room are you getting there and did you get some special discount? Maybe that would help some other folks who want some kitchenette facilities in Paris.
Dec 18th, 2006, 11:16 AM
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I have never been to Paris so a friend of my sister who is a travel agent made all of our hotel reservations including this hotel. The room is deluxe double room with a kitchenette for $112.50 per night. I do believe Pam ( our tarvel agent) used her discount or status as a travel agent for our room but I am not sure? The 34 sq metre figure I came up with was taken from a couple of travel infomation web sites I viewed so maybe I am wrong about the size? I hope we don't get a 14 sq metre room.
Dec 18th, 2006, 01:16 PM
#28
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Hi Christina, I agree that a hotel KNOWS the metre size, but 1 of them ( not Delavigne) replied "as for the sq m, I dont know. It is a good size". Normally I wouldn't ask this but wanted to know how it compared to Delavigne. IMPORTANT UPDATE!!YOU MUST ALL READ THIS!
When I went back to The Delavigne yesterday with the question "are the standards all that size or are there larger, for same price or how much for superior double"...guess what? I think they decided I was too much trouble and said that "You have enough information to proceed with the booking and we are withdrawing the early booking offer sent to you" and then wished me the best for my search for OTHER accomm!! I admit it was my 3rd email, but I am particular as I am the guide responsible for the decision for 5 rooms for 9 nights...so a fair deal of money too! So, lets say my choice is now easier. I suppose that taught me a lesson, "the squeaky wheel " doesn't always get oiled, also that they really dont need my business, and that I obviously wouldn't be happy staying there if that was a glimps of their true colours. BUT, I was a bit shocked as I have been a Tour Manager for 25 years and all I do is give, give, give to my clients and answer a multitude of questions and give advice all day long Man, if I tried that attitude in Australia or with my American tour participants I would be fried!AAAAHHH! so if my heart is set on ST Germain, not shabby, I must re think!Bonapart? Others?
When I went back to The Delavigne yesterday with the question "are the standards all that size or are there larger, for same price or how much for superior double"...guess what? I think they decided I was too much trouble and said that "You have enough information to proceed with the booking and we are withdrawing the early booking offer sent to you" and then wished me the best for my search for OTHER accomm!! I admit it was my 3rd email, but I am particular as I am the guide responsible for the decision for 5 rooms for 9 nights...so a fair deal of money too! So, lets say my choice is now easier. I suppose that taught me a lesson, "the squeaky wheel " doesn't always get oiled, also that they really dont need my business, and that I obviously wouldn't be happy staying there if that was a glimps of their true colours. BUT, I was a bit shocked as I have been a Tour Manager for 25 years and all I do is give, give, give to my clients and answer a multitude of questions and give advice all day long Man, if I tried that attitude in Australia or with my American tour participants I would be fried!AAAAHHH! so if my heart is set on ST Germain, not shabby, I must re think!Bonapart? Others?
Dec 18th, 2006, 01:26 PM
#29
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I think it is a part of French behavior/norms that they do not care for multiple questions. I imagine they have plenty of bookings and are worried that they will have to devote too much effort during your stay, too 
Have you ever heard of the 80/20 rule? This is where a business spends 80% of their time trying to service or appease 20% of their customers. It isn't very efficient.
I think you are spending too much effort over room size. If you are getting each woman their own room with a shower or bath, and the hotel is well-regarded and priced right, that is sufficient effort. Virtually ALL hotel rooms in 2-star and 3-star hotels are going to be smaller than American visitors expected, but they'll get used to it and enjoy their visit just the same. It certainly won't be as much an issue as the tiny rooms some couples get, where they have to climb over the bed to get around each other.
If you have 3-4 very popular hotels suggested to you, there is a reason they are so popular and the room size doesn't affect that as much as you might think.
Have you ever heard of the 80/20 rule? This is where a business spends 80% of their time trying to service or appease 20% of their customers. It isn't very efficient.
I think you are spending too much effort over room size. If you are getting each woman their own room with a shower or bath, and the hotel is well-regarded and priced right, that is sufficient effort. Virtually ALL hotel rooms in 2-star and 3-star hotels are going to be smaller than American visitors expected, but they'll get used to it and enjoy their visit just the same. It certainly won't be as much an issue as the tiny rooms some couples get, where they have to climb over the bed to get around each other.
If you have 3-4 very popular hotels suggested to you, there is a reason they are so popular and the room size doesn't affect that as much as you might think.
Even with the bunk beds it's not enough!
Dec 18th, 2006, 02:20 PM
#33
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Hi to the last 4 posters..I agree with jeanne that they "read' it wrong..as a criticism and complaint rather than a valid concern/question..which is a shame because I was ready to book at that price and now I've blown that! travelnut, I know, the room size wont end up mattering so much once you're settled, i just dont want my clients to open up the door and go "WHAAAT!" Willtravel, the group are coming with me because they've done the group tour/ Trafalgar thing and want a more authentic and personal experience so wish to avoid 'chains' and will probably accept the Parisian style, even if small or a bit "antique'. It all came about because for a 3 star to have a DOUBLE room at 9 m sq, seemed unusual..
Dec 19th, 2006, 09:11 AM
#34
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I guess that is a lesson. I've never asked a hotel that many questions in so many emails, I think they just think you are too much trouble and don't really want groups anyway, and that you are going to be way too picky. They just didn't want to develop a pen pal relationship with you, after all (ha ha). Small hotels really don't like groups, and I can't blame them, it's too risky for them if the group cancels or whatever.
I ask all the questions about a room in one email, my first one. Once in a while if the response is confusing or not clear, I might followup with a question, but never three emails. For example, I have asked a followup question when they respond with vacancies at two very different price levels and don't describe the difference, such as in room size. Some hotels are much better at describing rooms than others.
Mr. Dreamer, I think you are mistaken about the room size that you are getting, although it will be a good size because they is a modern suite hotel building. You did get a very good rate, I think the deluxe doubles are usually around US $150-175 a night. That place does discount a lot on various websites, but that's a good rate.
Their Jr suites are 34 m2, but not the regular double rooms. The standard is only 13-18 m2, and the executive (which is probably what you are getting that is called deluxe) is 20-25 m2. That's a good size double room, of course. This info is even available on Expedia, which often lists their rooms.
I ask all the questions about a room in one email, my first one. Once in a while if the response is confusing or not clear, I might followup with a question, but never three emails. For example, I have asked a followup question when they respond with vacancies at two very different price levels and don't describe the difference, such as in room size. Some hotels are much better at describing rooms than others.
Mr. Dreamer, I think you are mistaken about the room size that you are getting, although it will be a good size because they is a modern suite hotel building. You did get a very good rate, I think the deluxe doubles are usually around US $150-175 a night. That place does discount a lot on various websites, but that's a good rate.
Their Jr suites are 34 m2, but not the regular double rooms. The standard is only 13-18 m2, and the executive (which is probably what you are getting that is called deluxe) is 20-25 m2. That's a good size double room, of course. This info is even available on Expedia, which often lists their rooms.
Dec 19th, 2006, 11:52 AM
#35
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Comedian, I don't think you're missing anything by not staying at the Delavigne honestly. I wouldn't bother pursuing booking a room with the Delavigne. I don't believe there was any miscommunication due to language; they seem to have a 'take it or leave it' attitude. Their reply was vague so, to me, there was nothing wrong in asking for clarification. I've asked hotels about the size of rooms before and they've all given the measurements even if they acknowledge that it's an estimate.
Dec 19th, 2006, 03:12 PM
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Thanks francophile 03 you made me feel like less of an anally retentive customer! I was not impressed with that attitude because the simple fact is that the few questions were not answered thoroughly the first time. Christina, you are 100% right too. I looked like trouble to them! Actually, I'm not. I'm a fairly relaxed australian who stays in $25 rooms in Thiland. But it is a lesson learnt. I will CAREFULLY word my questions, condense them and do it in 1 email in future! I am off to grandes ecoles with the group and I will book when open mid Jan and forward one or 2 requests only in the comments column!
Dec 19th, 2006, 03:26 PM
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I agree with Francophile. I think their reply was rather rude, telling you to go elsewhere, all in all. I haven't ever emailed three times to compare, but I have twice with no problems. Also, you were right about 9 m2 being small for a double in a 3* hotel, I thought that was their size for a single, not a double. Those standards I showed were the official ones, so they cannot be a 3* hotel with a 9m2 double room (although if this were a double single occupancy, that would be the same thing). I guess I'm a little confused as to whether that was the size of a single or double room.
Well, there are hundreds of hotels in Paris, and you have plenty of time so I wouldn't worry.
Well, there are hundreds of hotels in Paris, and you have plenty of time so I wouldn't worry.
Dec 19th, 2006, 07:49 PM
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Christina, Their reply for early booking rate (credit card before 31 Dec) was "a double room approx 9 sq metres" I had stipulated that it was for single occupancy only. The twin was 14 sq metre..and thats what bothered me, that the ladies paying a single supplement of some $500 Aust. would end up in a room half the size of those on the cheaper twin basis. I think its worth pointing out to Fodorites that I presume the rate, whilst very competitive, is for a very small double only...and in my case, not worth the saving...I think they are fully aware its a very small room as they do directly state the size of it in the reply. For a few nights in that location its a good deal..but it could have turned out badly for my credibility to put the singles in a dog box, no matter how fresh, clean or 3 star it is. I hope some of this info helps someone out there considering hotel rates!
