Ireland vs. N. Ireland
May 2nd, 2012, 01:54 PM
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Ireland vs. N. Ireland
I am wondering if someone out there can solve a disagreement that I and my girlfriend are having. She thinks that Ireland and northern Ireland are 2 separate countries. Meaning that if you travel through both of them it counts as being on 2 countries on a country count list. I believe that it counts as one in the same. So who is right? I know I am, however I want to give her proof!
May 2nd, 2012, 02:11 PM
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Well....yes and no. Ireland and Northern Ireland are two different countries. The Republic of Ireland is a country in and by itself. Northern Ireland....well Northern Ireland is part of a country (at least as recognized internationally) called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland....the UK consists of four "country" or whatever they call them (here's where I need the advice of a local)...the "country" Great Britain consists of two "countries" Wales, England and Scotland...Northern Ireland is...well the fourth "country" making up the "country" called the United Kingdom of....Oh let's forget it. If you go to the Republic of Ireland and then Northern Ireland you have visited two countries...but if yo then go to England, your country count is probably still stuck on two., I think.
May 2nd, 2012, 02:23 PM
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What are your criteria?
1. Ireland has a national government based in Dublin; Northern Ireland has a regional government based in Belfast, and a national government based in London.
2. Ireland has its own legal code and judiciary; Northern Ireland shares a legal code and judiciary with the United Kingdom.
3. Ireland used the Euro; Northern Ireland uses the Pound.
4. Ireland uses metric measurements (except for alcoholic drink); Northern Ireland uses imperial measurements except in a few situations mandated by the EU.
5. etc.
1. Ireland has a national government based in Dublin; Northern Ireland has a regional government based in Belfast, and a national government based in London.
2. Ireland has its own legal code and judiciary; Northern Ireland shares a legal code and judiciary with the United Kingdom.
3. Ireland used the Euro; Northern Ireland uses the Pound.
4. Ireland uses metric measurements (except for alcoholic drink); Northern Ireland uses imperial measurements except in a few situations mandated by the EU.
5. etc.
May 2nd, 2012, 09:46 PM
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The question - and most of the answers - is misconceived.
Ireland ISN'T a country. It's an island, and it's a cultural phenomenon.
It includes two separate nation states: the Republic of Ireland and the Northern Irish province of the UK. These two are legally as distinct from each other as the US is from Mexico (though as mutually dependent on each other, and as free from control on the movement of people or goods, as any two American states).
On the other hand, Ireland has one patron saint, and both the Episcopal and Catholic archbishops of Armagh (in Northern Ireland) exercise control over their churches throughout the island. The Irish rugby team is supported by, and contains players from, the whole island (though Ireland fields two separate teams in the football World Cup). The Irish Tourist Board is funded by both the UK and Irish government and promotes tourism to the whole island. There are hundreds of other institutions which cover the island, and in most ways the two divisions feel more like each other than like the island of Britain.
But there are still many (mostly Catholic) Irishpeople who believe passionately, whatever the law may say, that the island really is just one country - and many other Irishpeople who believe the difference between the two divisions is the most important single political fact of all.
There's no one simple answer to your question: there are loads of countries and statelets around the world (especially around the British Isles) with fuzzy status, and the "correct" answer depends on the rules you set for your competition.
What is undoubtedly the case, though, is that:
- Just about any sensible set of rules would rule that someone who's been to Belfast and Dublin has been to two countries, BUT
- Just about any set of sensible rules would also rule that if that someone's also been to London or anywhere else in Britain they've still visited only two countries.
What if they've also been to the Isle of Man or Guernsey, though? For that, you have to look at the very small print in your rule book.
Ireland ISN'T a country. It's an island, and it's a cultural phenomenon.
It includes two separate nation states: the Republic of Ireland and the Northern Irish province of the UK. These two are legally as distinct from each other as the US is from Mexico (though as mutually dependent on each other, and as free from control on the movement of people or goods, as any two American states).
On the other hand, Ireland has one patron saint, and both the Episcopal and Catholic archbishops of Armagh (in Northern Ireland) exercise control over their churches throughout the island. The Irish rugby team is supported by, and contains players from, the whole island (though Ireland fields two separate teams in the football World Cup). The Irish Tourist Board is funded by both the UK and Irish government and promotes tourism to the whole island. There are hundreds of other institutions which cover the island, and in most ways the two divisions feel more like each other than like the island of Britain.
But there are still many (mostly Catholic) Irishpeople who believe passionately, whatever the law may say, that the island really is just one country - and many other Irishpeople who believe the difference between the two divisions is the most important single political fact of all.
There's no one simple answer to your question: there are loads of countries and statelets around the world (especially around the British Isles) with fuzzy status, and the "correct" answer depends on the rules you set for your competition.
What is undoubtedly the case, though, is that:
- Just about any sensible set of rules would rule that someone who's been to Belfast and Dublin has been to two countries, BUT
- Just about any set of sensible rules would also rule that if that someone's also been to London or anywhere else in Britain they've still visited only two countries.
What if they've also been to the Isle of Man or Guernsey, though? For that, you have to look at the very small print in your rule book.
May 2nd, 2012, 09:59 PM
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May 3rd, 2012, 04:32 AM
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Ah flanner....
I think basically I said the same thing....
BTW there are no longer any border controls in place between the Republic and Northern Ireland.....you toot along the motorway and might actually see the sign that says you crossed the border...as I remember the color of the orad signs change and also distances in the Republic are given in kilometers while those in Northern Ireland are in miles.
BTW Flanner, in your example, a better example might have been Canada and the United States not Mexico and the United States. Until the paranoia of the US government set in afterr 9/11, border controls between Canada and the USA were in place but in many cases went down the middle of the street in some towns and some houses had the kitchen in Canada dnt he bedrooms in the United States and just like the East German goernment, the geniuses in the US Dept of Homeland Security had to board up some of the houses. Some towns in upper New York State had agreements with their Canadian neighbrs to help each other out in case of fires, for example. So ever since this new paranoia hit, there was a fire and one fire department couldn't get to help the other as the US border agents insisted on checking everybody's passports. It's all very odd and it's all because General
Of course if General John Maxewell had had half a brain and not summarily executed the leaders of the Easter Rebellion in 1916, the vast majority of the Irish people would have reamined loyal and we wouldn't have had all this nonsense for the last 95 years. But that's another story.
I think basically I said the same thing....
BTW there are no longer any border controls in place between the Republic and Northern Ireland.....you toot along the motorway and might actually see the sign that says you crossed the border...as I remember the color of the orad signs change and also distances in the Republic are given in kilometers while those in Northern Ireland are in miles.
BTW Flanner, in your example, a better example might have been Canada and the United States not Mexico and the United States. Until the paranoia of the US government set in afterr 9/11, border controls between Canada and the USA were in place but in many cases went down the middle of the street in some towns and some houses had the kitchen in Canada dnt he bedrooms in the United States and just like the East German goernment, the geniuses in the US Dept of Homeland Security had to board up some of the houses. Some towns in upper New York State had agreements with their Canadian neighbrs to help each other out in case of fires, for example. So ever since this new paranoia hit, there was a fire and one fire department couldn't get to help the other as the US border agents insisted on checking everybody's passports. It's all very odd and it's all because General
Of course if General John Maxewell had had half a brain and not summarily executed the leaders of the Easter Rebellion in 1916, the vast majority of the Irish people would have reamined loyal and we wouldn't have had all this nonsense for the last 95 years. But that's another story.
May 3rd, 2012, 07:39 AM
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<<Until the paranoia of the US government set in after 9/11>>
It's not paranoia if your actually a target. Or have you forgotten your closest 9/11 equivalent already.
To the OP: buy your own beer and woman up - you're wrong, you lose.
It's not paranoia if your actually a target. Or have you forgotten your closest 9/11 equivalent already.
To the OP: buy your own beer and woman up - you're wrong, you lose.
May 3rd, 2012, 08:07 AM
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Big Russ...
Although this is a travel board and not really the place for politics, it does affect travel. The fact is every one of the vermin who were involved in the 9/11 attacks, entered the country legally and would have been able to enter the country even under today's paranoia.
I do know this. I have several friends who live in London who just don't want to come to visit me in New York, not because they don't have a place to stay (they can stay with me, no problem), but find it insulting they are fingerprinted, mug shoted and have to now register on line before they can fly to the USA and this most assuredly does affect travel and so it is appropriate. No other country in the world greets its visitors in such an unfriendly manner and supposedly the British are our closest allies. It is wrong, period.
Although this is a travel board and not really the place for politics, it does affect travel. The fact is every one of the vermin who were involved in the 9/11 attacks, entered the country legally and would have been able to enter the country even under today's paranoia.
I do know this. I have several friends who live in London who just don't want to come to visit me in New York, not because they don't have a place to stay (they can stay with me, no problem), but find it insulting they are fingerprinted, mug shoted and have to now register on line before they can fly to the USA and this most assuredly does affect travel and so it is appropriate. No other country in the world greets its visitors in such an unfriendly manner and supposedly the British are our closest allies. It is wrong, period.
May 3rd, 2012, 08:39 AM
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They are absolutely 2 separate countries. You might count northern as par tof the UK - but everyone I know counting counties lists each separately: england, wales, scotland and northern ireland - then republic of ireland separately.
May 3rd, 2012, 08:53 AM
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Tony2phones,
I am a STL cards FAN and my g-friend is a cubs fan, and for years I have given her the notion that the cubs are a great franchise. I am getting that sick feeling just typinhg this........excuse me...........
I am a STL cards FAN and my g-friend is a cubs fan, and for years I have given her the notion that the cubs are a great franchise. I am getting that sick feeling just typinhg this........excuse me...........
May 3rd, 2012, 08:59 AM
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So can we throw Puerto Rico, Greenland and the U.S./B Virgin islands into this topic? I have heard of Greenland being called a separate country, but Puerto rico is not as it is a commonwealth of the US. But isn’t Greenland that same thing of Denmark. I think that Puerto Rico and Greenland are either both separate counties or neither are. I don’t see how it makes sense that one can be independent and the other is not. Sorry if I am getting off the original topic, i just thought that this also pertained to it.
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