vanne

May just be that tbrash just doesn't have time to check in at the moment and/or may not realize how quickly replies come in. I once posted a photo I'd taken in England that I came upon a number of years after the trip that I couldn't identify; it wasn't a particularly distinctive section of a property but before 6 minutes were up someone had identified it as Arundel Castle and others followed. There's such a wealth of personal information on this site that it's well worth tredging through the occasional bickering that goes on -- hope this person checks back, because I agree that the itineraries need to be pared down. Makes so much more sense to pursue quality time in 2 or 3 cities than making a mad dash through Europe. I understand the impulse, but I do think they will have a better experience if they just do enough research to determine which cities they most want to see and narrow things down.

sandralist

The trip isn't until December, the OP is planning a wedding, and less than 36 hours has elapsed since the first posting -- and already she is attacked!

The OP wrote:

"I would greatly appreciate some feedback on which of the following itineraries will be more fitting for a honeymoon in December. I know the trip involves jumping around multiple countries, but we really want to experience each of these areas."

Some of you, perhaps without realizing it, are not dealing with the OP's desires or the request to choose between 2 stated itineraries. I think some of you see an inherent conflict in wanting to go so many places in Europe and having a honeymoon, but maybe if the OP returns she could elaborate on her dream for a European honeymoon (which may not be yours).

I think there are real obstacles in December to even completing either itinerary as state -- the likelihood of transport-delaying weather and Christmas or New Year's closures. But I would try to find out how important it is to them to have an experience of various parts of Europe, and respect it if it is very important and try to come up with the best logistical plan if that is the trip they want to take.

bilboburgler

In many ways I agree with you Sandra, but you have to read all of what people write, not just pick up bits. This is a struggle and the written word is pretty bad at this.

So, my take on this is to also look at "we really want to experience each of these areas" and that is the point at which most posters have to balk at just choosing itin 1 or 2 and instead offer the cut back advice. Either 1 or 2 will mean they couple experience is basically limited to airports/stations/trains and planes.

However, it would be great for the OP to come back and give her interpretation of our advice so we can offer more as required.

tbrash

Sorry for taking so long to reply, been a busy schedule as of late. I really appreciate all of the constructive advice you guys have offered, its changed my mentality on how to approach this trip. To help clarify things in regards to what we are looking for in our honeymoon, we are really just looking to explore multiple areas. There are a few cities each of us is adamant in visiting, so while I understand the argument that we would probably be best served to only visit 2/3 cities, I'm not sure that is exactly what we are looking for on our honeymoon. While we definitely want to see the major museums and sights, we're not the type of couple who will want to spend a week in each city touring different museums. We want to go more for experiencing the major attractions in each city and for getting to enjoy the excellent food, wine and culture that Europe has to offer. As far as my comment about a hotel budget, there is a lot of flexibility there. I was just trying to make the point that we're not concerned about staying in the Honeymoon Suite at a 5-Star hotel each night, but rather hope to book a comfortable room near major attractions and use our time out and about exploring the city rather than feeling like we need to take advantage of a $300 per night hotel room.
As things stand now, I definitely can see how taking a few locations off of the itineraries I mentioned earlier will be best. As many of you can imagine, for someone having never been to Europe its hard to really pinpoint exactly where you want to go when there are so many excellent options. After trying to look at the trip from a more logistical and realistic standpoint, I've made a few more revisions to the itinerary. While we still won't be spending 6 or 7 nights in each location like many of you mention, I believe the new itinerary will offer a less hectic travel schedule and therefore will allow us to spend more time relaxing and exploring. The new itinerary is:
*December 14, 15, 16- Barcelona
*Train to Paris
*December 17, 18, 19- Paris
*Train to London
*December 20, 21, 22, 23- London
*Fly to Rome
*December 24, 25, 26, 27- Rome
*Train to Florence
*December 28, 29, 30- Florence
*Train to Venice
*December 31, January 1 & 2- Venice


***A few notes/questions about the itinerary***
1) Any suggestions about Rome in Christmas? After doing my own research on the side, I think Rome would be an excellent place to spend Christmas. I do, however, worry that not getting there until the afternoon on Christmas Eve might mean we miss out on many things.
2) Should I expect any major potential transportation problems between these cities?
3) If we decided to cut off one city from the above list, which should it be? This could be based upon personal opinion or from a logistics standpoint based upon our itinerary.

Thanks in advance for all of your help. It can be overwhelming trying to plan an honeymoon by yourself, in addition to the numerous other things that must be planned pre-wedding, but your advice is definitely valuable.

**PS, I'm a guy not a girl haha.

StuDudley

>>While we definitely want to see the major museums and sights. We want to go more for experiencing the major attractions in each city and for getting to enjoy the excellent food, wine and culture that Europe has to offer.<<

You won't get to your hotel in Paris, check in, unpack, and "ready to explore" until 5PM at night - at the earliest. So - that gives you 2 1/8 days in Paris. I don't know how you are going to accomplish you goals in my favorite city in Europe, with that little time there. As I stated above, we had a big showstorm when we were in Paris at Christmas, and practically all transportation was impacted for a good portion of the day.

I think Barcelona adds the most complications, as far as getting to the next destination. All the places in Italy are a short train ride apart. I would fly into London or Paris and start your trip there and skip Barcelona. I don't know where you live, but I live in San Francisco and we have several direct flights to London & Paris - but none to Barcelona.

Stu Dudley

tbrash

I live in south Texas, so will likely be flying out of Houston. I do agree though, Barcelona does seem to pose the biggest problem with a train ride that would take up half of the day. Maybe dropping the 3 nights in Barcelona is an option to consider, and adding some extra time in Paris/London to help compensate for the jet lag I'm sure we'll be experiencing.

janisj

Definitely better but maybe one more cut?

As it is you will have part of one jet lagged day then (hopefully) 2 useable days in Barcelona, one evening and 2 days in Paris, 3.5 days in London, at most 3.5 days in Rome, 2.5 days in Florence, and only 1.5 days in Venice. (You really can't do anything in Venice on your departure day w/ checkout and airport logistics.)

You are cutting Paris and Venice VERY short. I'm not at all suggesting a week in each stop.

But if Paris and Venice are 'musts' . . . consider cutting one more destination and adding that time to Paris & Venice.

janisj

oops -- didn't mean to submit . . . and IF Paris or Venice aren't musts, then cut one of them.

bilboburgler

way better, but cutting Barcelona makes it better. I would not propose 7 nights per city (in fact in winter Venice might be a bit of a bore over 7 nights) but you plan is coming together.

StuDudley

>> and IF Paris or Venice aren't musts<<

If Paris isn't a must for a first-timer on a honeymoon, I would like to get an explanation of "why" it isn't a must.

Florence is a short train ride from both Venice & Rome. So if you stay 3 nights there you have a good 2 1/2 days to explore. On our last trip to Florence, we spent 1 1/2 days there & saw everything we wanted to see (not the Ufizi, however). You could perhaps stay in Florence for 2 nights and either get there early or depart late (or both) to extend your time in Florence if you feel that's the thing to do.

Also, it is somewhat difficult to depart from Venice back to the states. Flights we needed to take to make it back to SFO departed ungodly early from Venice and getting to the airport from the St Marks area is difficult & time-consuming in the early AM. We actually stayed at a hotel near Mastre the night before departure & took a taxi to the airport. If this was my trip, I would fly from London or Paris to Venice, and then home to the US from Rome.

Stu Dudley

janisj

>>>> and IF Paris or Venice aren't musts<<

If Paris isn't a must for a first-timer on a honeymoon, I would like to get an explanation of "why" it isn't a must.<<

Stu -- yes, believe it or not it IS possible . . . contrary to popular opinion, Paris is not <i>everyone's</i> favorite place on earth.

We don't know which cities are tbrash's dream destinations. Maybe they like Gaudi more than Monet??? Who knows . . .

StuDudley

tbrash & fiance have never visited Europe. I can understand a frequent visitor to Europe preferring London or Rome or Madrid or Barcelona over Paris. But that's not the case here - they are first-timers. IMO, Paris & Venice are the two most romantic cities in Europe - and this is their honeymoon!

>> Maybe they like Gaudi more than Monet??? Who knows<<<

We MUCH prefer Gaudi over Monet.

Stu Dudley

msteacher

Thrash, your plan is improving and you are in your way to a great trip. First, I'll repeat my advice to check what your best flight options are into and out of Europe... That may well dictate some of your travel plans. In many cases, London, Paris, or Rome are easiest. Whatever your departure city is, that is clearly the last leg of your trip

Secondly, don't forget to account for travel time within your trip. For example, the first of your four days in Rome will be spent on a flight from London. Even the flight may be brief, remember you'll need to arrive at the airport 1-2 hours early. And airports are located outside the city center, so you will likely need to give yourself an hour on either end to get to and from the airport. There's also hotel check in / check out and getting your bearings in a new city.

I agree that you don't need a week in each location, but do make sure you're giving yourself enough time to experience the places you do visit, rather than spending more time than you want to in transit.

phaddix

As someone who did their honeymoon in Europe I will definitely chime in here and say to cut back on destinations.

Here was our experience. We had both been to Europe multiple times prior to our honeymoon, and both of us had never had jet lag very badly before, and we have not since. However that honeymoon trip to Europe we literally slept for almost three days straight...this wasn't jet lag it was WEDDING LAG. You literally have no idea how emotionally and physically exhausted you will be and my best advice is to plan for it.

Ideally if you can take a few days between your wedding and your flight. For example, married on Saturday fly out on Monday (or Tuesday if possible.)

Once there I would highly encourage you to limit your destinations to 1-2 cities as home bases with day trips outside of those. An apartment rental is a great way to save money, both from an initial cost and from a self-catering standpoint. it also gives you the privacy you will want on your honeymoon.

We went to Vienna and Salzburg for our honeymoon, not because we loved the cities or loved Austria, but simply because we love Europe and wanted to enjoy being newly married there. We did a lot of sitting in cafe's, walking to parks, eating nice dinners and it was glorious. I understand if that is not the "feel" of the trip you are going for but you may regret being over scheduled once you arrive and are just hoping to relax.

Plan the trip like you know you will be going back and don't worry about "missing" something. The biggest shame would be to see all of the cities you want to but miss the enjoyment of really seeing and being present with one another during the trip which is really what a honeymoon is for.

We fell in love with Europe as a couple on our honeymoon and have been back on an almost yearly basis since. We still struggle with itineraries (http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...erary-help.cfm) so I understand the challenge!

nytraveler

Sorry - but even you new itinerary does not include time for travel between cities. It is not clear if your travel day is the last day in the departure city or the first day in the arrival city. Some of these will be half days assuming you are early risers - London to Paris, Rome to Florence and Florence to Venice can be done in 5/6 hours from packing in the departure hotel to arrival at the new hotel - so you may arrive at 1 or 2 pm in the afternoon.

Barcelona is definitely an issue - and I think you need to allow a full day for that.

candj83

Phaddix hit the nail on the head with "wedding lag". We were married on a Saturday and hit the airport around noon on a Monday to fly into Rome. We were definitely wedding lagged and my husband even ended up getting sick for the first few days in Rome. I really wanted to leave on our honeymoon after the wedding and not have to go to work in between...in hindsight, it probably would have been better to have worked for a week and left the next weekend. It's all personal preference, but, wedding lag is a real thing!

I think your new itinerary is looking a lot better. I also think the logical places to consider cutting would be Barcelona, London, Paris or Florence. Barcelona is out of the way, logistically. You could easily fly into Paris or London to start your trip and work your way south. Flying out of Venice does present a few problems as mentioned earlier (VERY early flights, and a second layover, at least for us to get back to Kansas). Our flight into Rome only had one stop. I would suggest flying out of a bigger city because it will eliminate those issues.

Are the days listed in your itinerary travel/flight days or time spent there? I'm assuming they are travel days. If you do end up cutting a stop, you could look at this:

December 14 - flight from USA

*December 15, 16, 17, 18 - Paris
*December 19, 20, 21 - London
*December 22, 23, 24 - Venice
*December 25, 26, 27, 28 - Florence
*December 29, 30, 31, January 1 - Rome

January 2nd -- flight back home

I'd say either London or Florence could have a 4th day. There are a lot of fantastic day trips from Florence (and I love Italy), so that's why I showed it that way. But, you could also give Paris or Rome 5 days...there's plenty to do there as well and other great day-trips. If you do keep Barcelona and decide to cut a different city instead, I'd give it three days for sure.

I do caution you to look at the flights coming home; I know when we were looking at a trip to Greece the flights back home can end up not getting back until the next day, which might not work for your schedule. It'd be great to structure your trip with a fast and easy return flight home.

tbrash

Thanks for all the great responses. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts about spending Christmas in Venice? I definitely can see how flying out of Rome instead of Venice would be the best option from a travel standpoint, but that would mean spending Christmas in Venice rather than Rome. I'm definitely open to making that change, as long as spending Christmas in Venice rather that Rome wouldn't be a huge mistake.

phaddix

If it was me doing the trip I would probably do something along the lines of:

December 14 - flight from USA

*December 15-20 - Paris
*December 21-24 - South towards Italy with stops at Christmas Markets in Germany and Austria
*December 25-27 - Florence
*December 28-29 - Venice
*December 30-31, January 1 - Rome

January 2nd -- flight back home

And that would still be pushing it. Venice would be my next cut.

I might also consider spending Christmas somewhere in Bavaria / Swiss Alps as opposed to Florence.

gigi69

Hi.
I was just curious about the London leg.
Does your fiance or you have a particular intrest in London?
IMO it's more expensive and less romantic than your other destinations.
You could give that time and money dedicated to London to the other places and good wine.

margotheangel

phaddix and gigi and I were thinking the same thing - I'd cut London. It has a lot of things going for it, but I think it needs a lot of time and is not particularly romantic. Here's what I think I'd do:

Dec 13/14: Fly US to Paris
Paris (4 nights)
Dec 19: Train or fly Paris to Barcelona
Barcelona (4 nights)
Dec 23: Fly Barcelona to Venice
Venice (3 nights)
Dec 26: Train Venice to Florence
Florence (3 nights)
Dec 29: Train Florence to Rome
Rome (4 nights)
Jan 2: Fly Rome to US

Many things may be closed in Venice while you're there, but since my favorite part of Venice is just wandering the streets, that doesn't really ruin it for me. A quick google search found a couple of articles that make it sound lovely at Christmas:
http://www.travelandleisure.com/arti...tmas-in-venice
http://www.walksofitaly.com/blog/ven...tmas-in-venice

If you're huge museum fans, you'd want more time in Florence than this.

I put Paris first because I tend to find more flights going through there, so I assumed it might be cheaper (and also because I happened to like Barcelona more and would prefer to sleep off my jetlag/wedding lag in Paris), but it could easily be switched with Barcelona, in my opinion.