Homelidays - I wished I had been warned!
Dec 19th, 2006, 09:29 AM
#1
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Homelidays - I wished I had been warned!
1. I used Homelidays to find an apartment based upon the review I could find.
2. I did everything Homelidays recommended by contacting the owner, making a reservation, and taking out their "surprise-proof" insurance.
3. I sent a deposit to the owner.
4. I became suspicious about the owner because of the poor level of English used by a doctor (the owner) on a subsequent email asking for more money.
5. I contacted Homlidays to express my concerns and I received an email back stating that the owner and the apartment listed on their web site is a fraud.
6. After weeks and many emails and phone calls, I have not received any further responses to file an insurance claim. The fine print in the their "surprise-proof" insurance is that they don't pay when it is owner fraud. This is contrary to Homelidays saying they will pay if the apartment is in the wrong place or the size of the apartment is wrong ---they just say it's owner's fraud. In my case, the apartment was not even there.
7. They obviously list apartments without a simple legitimacy check (ie. the phone book).
8. With exchange rates and Western Union fees, I am out about $600US.
9. Though others have stated they have had success with Homelidays ( I wonder if they are employees of Homelidays) without problems sending cash, I will NEVER send cash again NOR ever use Homelidays.
2. I did everything Homelidays recommended by contacting the owner, making a reservation, and taking out their "surprise-proof" insurance.
3. I sent a deposit to the owner.
4. I became suspicious about the owner because of the poor level of English used by a doctor (the owner) on a subsequent email asking for more money.
5. I contacted Homlidays to express my concerns and I received an email back stating that the owner and the apartment listed on their web site is a fraud.
6. After weeks and many emails and phone calls, I have not received any further responses to file an insurance claim. The fine print in the their "surprise-proof" insurance is that they don't pay when it is owner fraud. This is contrary to Homelidays saying they will pay if the apartment is in the wrong place or the size of the apartment is wrong ---they just say it's owner's fraud. In my case, the apartment was not even there.
7. They obviously list apartments without a simple legitimacy check (ie. the phone book).
8. With exchange rates and Western Union fees, I am out about $600US.
9. Though others have stated they have had success with Homelidays ( I wonder if they are employees of Homelidays) without problems sending cash, I will NEVER send cash again NOR ever use Homelidays.
Dec 19th, 2006, 09:42 AM
#3
That is a shame. I am a bit confused - you say you saw reviews of the apartment - but that the flat doesn't exist?
I have used homelidays a couple of times w/ excellent results (and no, I'm not an employee of their's) But any "deal w/ the owner sites" like Homelidays or VRBO, or any flat/cottage rental could pose the same problems.
I have used homelidays a couple of times w/ excellent results (and no, I'm not an employee of their's) But any "deal w/ the owner sites" like Homelidays or VRBO, or any flat/cottage rental could pose the same problems.
Dec 19th, 2006, 09:55 AM
#4
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Sorry, to clarify.
I saw a few other reviews by others on the forum. Including some reviews by others that stated that sending cash was the norm overseas. In hindsight, that was foolish to consider on my part. Travelers overseas need some sort of fraud protection like a credit card provides.
To answer the other part. Homelidays listed this specific apartment on their site. Homelidays assures users that their site is safe to use if renters take out their "surprise-proof" insurance. To underwrite that claim, one would 'assume' that Homelidays at least knows the the apartment even exists before accepting apartment owners' money and advertisement.
If not, what a way to scam money from tourists.
BTW, I've seen a few other apartments advertised on Homelidays in Paris that sounds a lot like the 'owner' I contacted.
I consider myself travel savvy. I've traveled to many places around the world. I'm embarrassed to say that this was the first time I was scammed traveling over 30 years.
I saw a few other reviews by others on the forum. Including some reviews by others that stated that sending cash was the norm overseas. In hindsight, that was foolish to consider on my part. Travelers overseas need some sort of fraud protection like a credit card provides.
To answer the other part. Homelidays listed this specific apartment on their site. Homelidays assures users that their site is safe to use if renters take out their "surprise-proof" insurance. To underwrite that claim, one would 'assume' that Homelidays at least knows the the apartment even exists before accepting apartment owners' money and advertisement.
If not, what a way to scam money from tourists.
BTW, I've seen a few other apartments advertised on Homelidays in Paris that sounds a lot like the 'owner' I contacted.
I consider myself travel savvy. I've traveled to many places around the world. I'm embarrassed to say that this was the first time I was scammed traveling over 30 years.
Dec 19th, 2006, 10:05 AM
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I am so sorry that this happened to you. I am not familiar with Homelidays.
Perhaps you could post the the apartment information and we could could check it out and then if it is still on their site, after you notified them of the fraud, they could and should be held responible for your loss.
I for one would be willing to write to the apartment owner myself and attempt to rent his non existant apartment. If I can do it today or tommorow I would be happy to try to help you. We are leaving Thursday for Paris, so I don't have much time.
When did all of this transpire. Depending on where the company is located, they must have some legal recourse, business permits etc.. Also, who issued the 'surprise insurance' Homelidays or the 'apartment' owner? How did you send the $$, do you have a signature or any proof of delivery. Was it via cash or check?
Perhaps you could post the the apartment information and we could could check it out and then if it is still on their site, after you notified them of the fraud, they could and should be held responible for your loss.
I for one would be willing to write to the apartment owner myself and attempt to rent his non existant apartment. If I can do it today or tommorow I would be happy to try to help you. We are leaving Thursday for Paris, so I don't have much time.
When did all of this transpire. Depending on where the company is located, they must have some legal recourse, business permits etc.. Also, who issued the 'surprise insurance' Homelidays or the 'apartment' owner? How did you send the $$, do you have a signature or any proof of delivery. Was it via cash or check?
Dec 19th, 2006, 10:06 AM
#6
mwiars - Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I have used Homelidays five or six times over the past 4 years, and have never had a problem - in fact I have previously recommended them on this forum.
I am quite shocked that the insurance does not seem to work in the case of fraud - this would have been the major reason that I have been tempted to take out such insurance.
I am quite shocked that the insurance does not seem to work in the case of fraud - this would have been the major reason that I have been tempted to take out such insurance.
Dec 19th, 2006, 12:51 PM
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The fact is homelidays won't ask owners any proof about their rental. As an owner myself I registred last year for their free trial and it was very simple. I can imagine anybody registring a false rental.
And it is the same for a lot of similar websites like janis mentioned. Only one australien rental website asked me to send it a proof of the apartment existence.
If you don't feel confident check the tourist offices websites where you can find rated apartments (www.cotedor-tourisme.com for ex) or even gites de France website.
I'm really sorry for you.
And it is the same for a lot of similar websites like janis mentioned. Only one australien rental website asked me to send it a proof of the apartment existence.
If you don't feel confident check the tourist offices websites where you can find rated apartments (www.cotedor-tourisme.com for ex) or even gites de France website.
I'm really sorry for you.
Dec 19th, 2006, 01:08 PM
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I too am curious about many of the questions you have been asked -- particularly how you sent the deposits and where they were sent to. It seems that authorities would want to know if you can provide them with an address to which you sent money -- or a bank account to which you transferred cash.
And I'm also curious what you mean by the email from the owner asking for "more money". I've only seen them ask for a deposit and the balance on arrival. Did the policy for this one change during the course of the reservation period?
And I'm also curious what you mean by the email from the owner asking for "more money". I've only seen them ask for a deposit and the balance on arrival. Did the policy for this one change during the course of the reservation period?
Dec 19th, 2006, 02:52 PM
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I think your next online research should be about how to bring a claim in French court or if there's a French small claims court. Heck, you could research whether or not making the website available in your homeland is enough for jurisdiction over the Homelidays company in your country.
Their disclaimer of liability of their liability for third party information is likely not as iron-clad as they would like to think, and it's absolute fraud to sell you an insurance policy that doesn't cover something (unless that clearly indicates what the exception was). Making a stink about suing might be enough to get them to reimburse your deposit. After all, the "equities" of the situation point in your favor - they're a business with business insurance and in a greater position to bear this loss. You are a consumer, relying on the representations of this company and its users.
Their disclaimer of liability of their liability for third party information is likely not as iron-clad as they would like to think, and it's absolute fraud to sell you an insurance policy that doesn't cover something (unless that clearly indicates what the exception was). Making a stink about suing might be enough to get them to reimburse your deposit. After all, the "equities" of the situation point in your favor - they're a business with business insurance and in a greater position to bear this loss. You are a consumer, relying on the representations of this company and its users.
Dec 19th, 2006, 03:08 PM
#12
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From the site:
"Note that Homelidays is not a real estate agency. Rentals are agreed upon directly between owners and renters, who must <b>according to the law,</b> sign a contract stating renting conditions (description, rent and service charges, insurance, duration...)."
Did you sign a contract?
"Note that Homelidays is not a real estate agency. Rentals are agreed upon directly between owners and renters, who must <b>according to the law,</b> sign a contract stating renting conditions (description, rent and service charges, insurance, duration...)."
Did you sign a contract?
Dec 19th, 2006, 03:15 PM
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That is really a shame, and I don't blame you for your new rules. At least it wasn't more, even though I know $600 is a good sum, but many people on here send off thousands of dollars to people for vacation rentals that they don't know, so it could be worse.
I can understand the complaint about the insurance if it were not clear to you what it covered. If they told you in writing, then I think it is too bad, but I don't blame them. This is why I won't rent vacation apts from total strangers from websites that are just ads (like vrbo). I know many others have no problem with this, but I just won't do it for many reasons, although this isn't really the main one.
I think many people confuse these websites with agencies, and they are not. They are just a place for people to advertise, like the newspaper, only now it is cyberspace. I repeatedly see people on Fodors asking about VRBO and referring to them as an agency and asking for referrals on the general quality of VRBO, etc. They aren't an agency and don't do any checking, either, and they put those disclaimers on their website.
It is true that it is the norm to send cash to private apt owners, though, people weren't wrong in saying that. I agree with you that if you want to be cautious, you shouldn't. I don't but I won't deal with private owners at all, only agencies I know that have been around for years.
Looking in the phone book wouldn't prove anything, many people aren't listed or aren't listed. You could have done that also, after all. I don't mean to beat you up when you've had a bad experience, but I think you are blaming Home Holidays too much when it is just the system for when you choose to rent from a private owner on the internet and you didn't look into all those facts when you rented (like what the insurance covers, whether they checked out the ads, etc.).
YOu know, I just looked at their website and they clearly say they are not responsible for owner fraud. I think all websites do. On the other hand, the description of the insurance says it covers discrepancies between the description and reality, and it seems to me that not existing is a pretty big discrepancy.
I can understand the complaint about the insurance if it were not clear to you what it covered. If they told you in writing, then I think it is too bad, but I don't blame them. This is why I won't rent vacation apts from total strangers from websites that are just ads (like vrbo). I know many others have no problem with this, but I just won't do it for many reasons, although this isn't really the main one.
I think many people confuse these websites with agencies, and they are not. They are just a place for people to advertise, like the newspaper, only now it is cyberspace. I repeatedly see people on Fodors asking about VRBO and referring to them as an agency and asking for referrals on the general quality of VRBO, etc. They aren't an agency and don't do any checking, either, and they put those disclaimers on their website.
It is true that it is the norm to send cash to private apt owners, though, people weren't wrong in saying that. I agree with you that if you want to be cautious, you shouldn't. I don't but I won't deal with private owners at all, only agencies I know that have been around for years.
Looking in the phone book wouldn't prove anything, many people aren't listed or aren't listed. You could have done that also, after all. I don't mean to beat you up when you've had a bad experience, but I think you are blaming Home Holidays too much when it is just the system for when you choose to rent from a private owner on the internet and you didn't look into all those facts when you rented (like what the insurance covers, whether they checked out the ads, etc.).
YOu know, I just looked at their website and they clearly say they are not responsible for owner fraud. I think all websites do. On the other hand, the description of the insurance says it covers discrepancies between the description and reality, and it seems to me that not existing is a pretty big discrepancy.
Dec 19th, 2006, 03:38 PM
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>>6. After weeks and many emails and phone calls, I have not received any further responses to file an insurance claim. The fine print in the their "surprise-proof" insurance is that they don't pay when it is owner fraud. This is contrary to Homelidays saying they will pay if the apartment is in the wrong place or the size of the apartment is wrong ---they just say it's owner's fraud. In my case, the apartment was not even there.<<
This really doesn't sound like a consistent argument on their part - how can an apartment be "in the wrong place" without it being fraud? Surely no-one could accidentally and entirely innocently list a property they own as being in a different location to where it actually is. Ditto apartment size - using a tape measure is not rocket science.
This really doesn't sound like a consistent argument on their part - how can an apartment be "in the wrong place" without it being fraud? Surely no-one could accidentally and entirely innocently list a property they own as being in a different location to where it actually is. Ditto apartment size - using a tape measure is not rocket science.
Dec 19th, 2006, 03:56 PM
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Can you submit a claim saying the property doesn't exist "at the address listed" - and totally forget about claiming fraud? Would it then be up to the website to prove owner fraud (they would have to prove the apartment doesn't exist, or how else can they rule out the possibility that it exists but at a different address?)
Dec 19th, 2006, 04:54 PM
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kleroux, take a look: www.vrbo.com
There are others, such as French Connections and Holiday Rentals ...
Anselm
There are others, such as French Connections and Holiday Rentals ...
Anselm
Dec 19th, 2006, 10:50 PM
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Speaking of VRBO. I just received their email newsletter, touting various apartments/home/locations.
I replied to the sender that I did not want to be on their mailing list and if in fact they harvested my address from their site, that I considered this newsletter to be spam. My email came back as undeliverable.
I replied to the sender that I did not want to be on their mailing list and if in fact they harvested my address from their site, that I considered this newsletter to be spam. My email came back as undeliverable.
