Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves ... Italian Cons
Sep 13th, 2005, 04:06 PM
#121
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the reasonablness Annie. I'm mostly German and wouldn't take anything personal that I've heard levied against 'my people' before. Nor do I feel the need to screen racism on behalf of someone else. I guess I'm both insensitive and ignorant for not being offended when the wind blows.
Sep 13th, 2005, 04:29 PM
#122
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sheila - I would have said "a daud of keech" personally.
AnnieP - Good to know that those of us who have the temerity not to share your opinions need to get real.
Well done for being so reasonable.
Jim
AnnieP - Good to know that those of us who have the temerity not to share your opinions need to get real.
Well done for being so reasonable.
Jim
Sep 13th, 2005, 06:59 PM
#123
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A handful of posters on this forum are enough to give tolerance a bad name. They are almost hysterical in their insistance that the experiences many of us report cannot be as we said they were, did not involve the people we said were involved, and to boot, that our reportage is indicative of racism.
I am sure that the Romani people have been oppressed and persecuted in Europe and elsewhere for centuries. While that knowledge increases my empathy, it does not change the fact that a fair number of them concentrate around tourist sites and make their livings by taking advantage of tourists' naivete, if not by actually stealing from them, then from engaging in scams and practices involving aggression and/or deceipt.
Don't insult my intelligence by telling me the people I've identified as being involved in the majority of the scam attempts on us in Italy and Spain were not Gypsies. They most definitely were Gypsies. They looked like the Gypsies back home, and the women, at least, dressed like the Gypsies back home.
That is not to say that all the scam artists and thieves we encountered in Italy and Spain were Gypsies. I've never said the thief who stole my purse from my lap while we were dining at an outdoor restaurant off Las Ramblas was a Gypsy. I don't believe the electronics store employee who advised me to purchase an inappropriate item and then refused to give me my money back when I discovered before even leaving the counter that he'd sold me the wrong item was a Gypsy.
And don't tell me the reported experiences with persons alleged to be Gypsies could not have happened because it is statistically impossible. There are 12 million Gypsies in Europe, more than enough to explain the high concentrations among the population of thieves and scam artists in Rome.
I am sure that the Romani people have been oppressed and persecuted in Europe and elsewhere for centuries. While that knowledge increases my empathy, it does not change the fact that a fair number of them concentrate around tourist sites and make their livings by taking advantage of tourists' naivete, if not by actually stealing from them, then from engaging in scams and practices involving aggression and/or deceipt.
Don't insult my intelligence by telling me the people I've identified as being involved in the majority of the scam attempts on us in Italy and Spain were not Gypsies. They most definitely were Gypsies. They looked like the Gypsies back home, and the women, at least, dressed like the Gypsies back home.
That is not to say that all the scam artists and thieves we encountered in Italy and Spain were Gypsies. I've never said the thief who stole my purse from my lap while we were dining at an outdoor restaurant off Las Ramblas was a Gypsy. I don't believe the electronics store employee who advised me to purchase an inappropriate item and then refused to give me my money back when I discovered before even leaving the counter that he'd sold me the wrong item was a Gypsy.
And don't tell me the reported experiences with persons alleged to be Gypsies could not have happened because it is statistically impossible. There are 12 million Gypsies in Europe, more than enough to explain the high concentrations among the population of thieves and scam artists in Rome.
Sep 14th, 2005, 01:49 AM
#125
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said, Mary Fran.
FYI, not all scam artists target tourists. In Benelux, some specifically target businessmen, esp. those who are well dressed and speak the local language. It's become known as the "first class scam" and is particularly common on the non-Thalys train run between Brussels and Amsterdam.
Works like this:
A well dressed couple quietly enters the busiest first class train compartment. They choose seats by the door, the woman makes a show of taking off her coat, putting it on the overhead rack, settling in. Just before the train leaves the woman asks "this train is going to XX, right?", a destination NOT on the route. Of course, someone will say "No, we're going to YY" at which point the lady throws a (fake) panic drama, "oh no, oh my god, we're on the wrong train, we have to get off NOW! Thank you for telling me!" etc. The couple jumps off the train seconds before the doors shut (they have this timed perfectly).
While she's performing, the male partner in the scam quietly makes off with the nearest briefcase placed on the overhead racks. By targeting first class business travelers on that route, the thieves know they have a better than average shot of making off with a briefcase containing a good quality laptop, perhaps a cell phone, and PDA, all items they can quickly and easily flog for a nice bit of cash.
FYI, not all scam artists target tourists. In Benelux, some specifically target businessmen, esp. those who are well dressed and speak the local language. It's become known as the "first class scam" and is particularly common on the non-Thalys train run between Brussels and Amsterdam.
Works like this:
A well dressed couple quietly enters the busiest first class train compartment. They choose seats by the door, the woman makes a show of taking off her coat, putting it on the overhead rack, settling in. Just before the train leaves the woman asks "this train is going to XX, right?", a destination NOT on the route. Of course, someone will say "No, we're going to YY" at which point the lady throws a (fake) panic drama, "oh no, oh my god, we're on the wrong train, we have to get off NOW! Thank you for telling me!" etc. The couple jumps off the train seconds before the doors shut (they have this timed perfectly).
While she's performing, the male partner in the scam quietly makes off with the nearest briefcase placed on the overhead racks. By targeting first class business travelers on that route, the thieves know they have a better than average shot of making off with a briefcase containing a good quality laptop, perhaps a cell phone, and PDA, all items they can quickly and easily flog for a nice bit of cash.
Sep 14th, 2005, 05:31 AM
#127
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mary Fran - You go girl!
BTilke - wow, that just made me feel sick, thats really horrible.
MD: I will be in Rome next month and will look out for all that stuff, not to the extent it will take over my vacation, but I will be very aware. Thank you for the tips, they will help keep my hard earned vacation hassle free and in that wonderful city.
BTilke - wow, that just made me feel sick, thats really horrible.
MD: I will be in Rome next month and will look out for all that stuff, not to the extent it will take over my vacation, but I will be very aware. Thank you for the tips, they will help keep my hard earned vacation hassle free and in that wonderful city.
Sep 14th, 2005, 11:55 AM
#129
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 45,322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi kswl!! How are you? Busy with home schooling I imagine. BTW, I just read in the SF Chronical food section today there is a very pepper..are you ready for this?..the Gypsy Pepper. Gave me a chuckle. Take care!
Sep 14th, 2005, 12:39 PM
#130
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not quite as amusing as some stories, but memorable none the less. My husband and I were on a Mediterranean cruise last summer. We chose to take a ship's tour of Florence and Pisa. First off, VERY hard NOT to look like tourists when the cruise line makes you wear a bright colored sticker, denoting what bus you're on! Anyway... Our tour guide was a local school teacher and was a hoot. When in one of the larger plazas, she caught a couple of "beggars" (is that a better word) buzzing around our group. One was an older woman, trying to talk to people, the other was a younger girl who would circle around back, hoping to find something hanging out of a pocket or bag. Our tour guide immediately ran over and started smacking the hands of the beggars. She was yelling and reeling off a bunch of what I'm sure were not so nice words to them. She then turned back around to us, and with her beautiful smile, reminded us to steer clear of such people, and not be afraid to treat them in the way she just had!
Sep 14th, 2005, 12:57 PM
#131
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First of all i would like to tell you that maybe you should do research on the word gypsy and rom. There is alot that you do not know about us. we are just like any culture out there that has the good the bad and the ugly. Any race has a slang word that is used in ignorance. Just like the word N-we all know what that is, how it is used amoungst there own and out side of the culture. Now the word gypsy is used in the wrong way to many times. The actual culture is Rom. But outsiders like to use the word gypsy because its demeaning and dirogatory.Its almost like calling a black person a N. But just like them they can use it amongst them selves and it becomes a diffrent meaning as well as for us when we use the word gypsy amongst ourselves its diffrent. But when someone else uses it they think of exaclty what you think -gypsy,tramps,theives and travellers. So any one that likes say the word gypsy should really do the research on how the name should be used. Not all white are bad. Not all black are bad. Not all brown are bad. Not all yellow are bad. And not all Rom are bad. Nobody really wants to see the good in Rom (gypsy) all they see and want to see is bad. If anyone wants to be predjudice or racists should be against the goverment in any nation.
Now when it comes to going to any country you should always be aware of your surroundings, whether your in Europe, US, Mexico,Canada, ect. But you really shouldn't label what you don't know.
Danielle Romni
Now when it comes to going to any country you should always be aware of your surroundings, whether your in Europe, US, Mexico,Canada, ect. But you really shouldn't label what you don't know.
Danielle Romni
Sep 14th, 2005, 01:07 PM
#132
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And just another note. before anyone turns there nose up at us or look down upon all of us do some research on our suffering in the past and our suffering now! And how the goverment (anywhere) does not give us rights like you have. Not even in the US. We are the only culture in this whole world that doesn't have a country of our own. And even though alot of us are very good hearted,religous people no one gives us a chance, not you and not the goverment. Now keep in mind i am not agreeing with pickpocketing and stealing, but not all Rom do that. Some of the best theives in the world are white.
So do some research find out where we come from and how the whole world is racist against us!
So do some research find out where we come from and how the whole world is racist against us!
Sep 14th, 2005, 01:08 PM
#133
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And just another note. before anyone turns there nose up at us or look down upon all of us do some research on our suffering in the past and our suffering now! And how the goverment (anywhere) does not give us rights like you have. Not even in the US. We are the only culture in this whole world that doesn't have a country of our own. And even though alot of us are very good hearted,religous people no one gives us a chance, not you and not the goverment. Now keep in mind i am not agreeing with pickpocketing and stealing, but not all Rom do that. Some of the best theives in the world are white.
So do some research find out where we come from and how the whole world is racist against us!
go to www.romnews.com for a start
So do some research find out where we come from and how the whole world is racist against us!
go to www.romnews.com for a start
Sep 14th, 2005, 03:27 PM
#135
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ya' tnink, AnnieP?
Was it it false nose and glasses that gave her away?
Or was it the single post with @ Yahoo.com e-mail address and a writing style and tone remarkably similar to some other posts on this thread?
We get your point, "Danielle Romni," or whoever ...
Was it it false nose and glasses that gave her away?
Or was it the single post with @ Yahoo.com e-mail address and a writing style and tone remarkably similar to some other posts on this thread?
We get your point, "Danielle Romni," or whoever ...
Sep 14th, 2005, 04:25 PM
#139
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JJBhoy, "writing style" was a poor choice of words on my part. I was really thinking of "tenor."
That being said, I'm throwing in the towel on this post. It had some educational value for me, but the emotional clattrap has become too annoying, especially when offered by an obvious troll. Ooops! Those of you out there living under bridges, I meant no offense.
That being said, I'm throwing in the towel on this post. It had some educational value for me, but the emotional clattrap has become too annoying, especially when offered by an obvious troll. Ooops! Those of you out there living under bridges, I meant no offense.
Sep 14th, 2005, 04:39 PM
#140
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK Mary Fran, now I see it. Those of us who don't share your views are guilty of "emotional claptrap" and are quite possibly trolls.
At least I agree with you on one point - this thread should have been retired a long time ago.
Jim
At least I agree with you on one point - this thread should have been retired a long time ago.
Jim
