LeslieC

First, does this transit plan make sense? Ater visitng London in early April, leave London hotel in Bloomsbury, taking the tube to Victoria Stn, Gatwick express to the airport and picking up rental car. 4 nights/days touring Sussex, returning car to Gatwick where we fly out out on an 8:00 am departure to Spain. Specific Question: where to spend the 4th night to be near enough to Gatwick to return the car and check in by 6:30 am?

Touring Questions: I KNOW this is too many places and also my husband will burn out if I overdo the 'stately home' tours. So I would LOVE to include a visit to Canterbury Cathedral. Of these or other destinations, what would you include or omit:

Canterbury
Leeds Castle
Chartwell (we're Churchill fans)
Penshurst
Hever Castle
Knole
Bodium
Rye

Have already seen Brighton, Dover, Salisbury, Oxford, Bath, Longleat, Windsor, Cambridge, Cotswolds, Woburn Abbey, York.

LeslieC

Sorry, meant to say Kent and East Sussex, not just Sussez.

annhig

Hi, Leslie,

yes, your plan makes a lot of sense. I wouild suggest 2 nights in each place though - one for the east including Canterbury, sissinghurst, Rye, etc, and another near Gatwick for the western bits, like Chartwell, Hever, Penshurst.

If your flight is at 8am, you'll need to be there by 7.30am. that time in the morning, you should have no trouble with traffic. so as long as you are within 30-40 minutes of gatwick, you'll be fine. How about Sevenoaks, Tunbridge Wells, or Westerham?

regards, ann

mrgrumpy

your best choice for the final night I would say is to stay at either of the hotels within the airport complex. That is either the hilton or sofitel. All you need to do is literally leave the hotel and you are in the airport concourse, You can return the car that evening thereby saving on rental, and not have to worry about leaving half way through the night tO return the car, if the return office is open. Both hotels have good restaurant and bars. Far better to do this and have no rushing around early morning. I always stay in one of these hotel if I have a early morning flight. THE CONCEPT OF STAYING IN KENT ON THE LAST NIGHT IS NOT GOOD. It only takes one accident on the m25 and you will be sitting in your car watching your plane fly overhead. DO NOT DO. For a 8.00 am flight the latest you need to be at check in 5.30 certainly not 7.30 the gate will be closed by then.

irishface

Leslie, I would most certainly include Canterbury in your visit. I remember attending a noon service in the undercroft. The music was wonderful. Bodiam Castle is certainly not a stately home. It is the shell of a castle where one can wander at will without worrying about damaging priceless antiques. The setting is wonderful and I enjoyed my visit there with my nephews. That was a while ago but I remember on the hillside visible from the wall walk were a field of hops and an oasthouse. Rye was a delightful town for a stroll.

Not on your list, but in the Rye area, was the Hythe, Dymchurch and Romney Railroad (I can't remember if I have the names in the correct order) which was a tiny train with little cars (seated only four I recall). At one end of the line was a model railroad museum that was absolutely fascinating.

Hope you enjoy the trip! I want to go back to Kent and Sussex someday!

annhig

Sorry, Leslie, Mr. grumpy is quite right - I meant 6.30 not 7.30. It was obviously too early in the morning for me.

however, no point in being there for 5.30 - the airlines don't usually close the gates until about 40 minutes before your flight on these european flights. your flight info will tell you. I usually like to be there at least an hour before which is why i meant to say get there by 6.30am to give you time to give your car back.

If you'd prefer to give your car back the night before, then the airport hotel is the obvious choice.

I'm not sure i agree with Mr. Grumpy about the M25 though - you'd have to be very, very unlucky to hit a massive jam at 6am!

regards, ann

irishface

Leslie, I googled the little railroad that I mentioned in an earlier post. The website is www.rhdr.org.uk. Click on stations and that link will take you to the railroad museum. By the way, I did hae the names out of order, as you will see. It is Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch. The link also includes times, fares, etc. This would give your husband something other than stately homes and a delight for you as well.

janisj

A couple of years ago I posted a trip report, 4 days of which were exactly what you want to do. Unfortunately the search function is useless and even using google I can't locate it.

We didn't visit 1) Knole - been there twice before; 2) Leeds Castle - been there a few times too but not really recommended. The grounds are nice but the castle itself is not much <u>at all</u>; and 3) Canterbury because I've been there several times and my friend wanted to see more in eastern Kent and Sussex so we skipped it

But we did include Dover/Deal/Walmer castles, Sissinghurst and Scotney Castle.

We stayed in one B&amp;B - on the shore of Bewl Water - for the full time and used it as a base to tour the area. Saved packing/unpacking and moving twice.

Rented a car at LGW in the a.m. and did Hever, Chartwell and Penshurst the first day before driving on to the B&amp;B. Not a mad dash at all since all three properties are so near each other.

The next day we did Dover, Deal and Walmer Castles - only about 5 miles apart so an easy &quot;3-fer&quot;. Dover takes the most time of course - allocate at least 4 hours - more if you can. Then we visited Rye on the way back to the B&amp;B.

The third day we did Sissinghurst, Scotney Castle Gardens, Bodiam Castle and Bayham Abbey - all easy in one day since they are all w/i a few miles of each other and of our B&amp;B. We wanted to also visit Great Dixter but just ran out of time.

The difference for us is we flew out of LHR so the last day we drove around the M25 and visited RHS Wisley and Windsor before turning in the car and staying the last night near the airport.

In your case - you are leaving from LGW so you would really have almost another full day for Kent/Sussex so so you really could work in Canterbury etc.

mrgrumpy

whilst aqgreeing that 5.30 may seem early, do not forget you have to check the car in, not always the quickest thing to do. Most check ins are closing 45mins before departure, but after that you have to go through security which can be lengthy, recently my sister traveled home to seville, check in was 15 mins, security in excess of 30 mins. Also check in lines can be massive, snaking round the airport. I have traveled 5 or 6 times this year from gatwick and the queues are massive. You may find your airline lets you check in your luggage the evening before, a very good idea as you miss the queues and go straight to security. If you are travelling in sussex you may like to visit arundel , about 20 miles west of brighton. A very nice castle and cathedral and on the river. The avisford park hotel is very good and about 5 miles out of arundel. Or may lewes 10 miles east of brighton.

As for the m25 I listen to the radio which carries road reports (radio 2) from 6.30ish most days and i can can assure that the time of day does not always make a great deal of difference. It is always the m25 of A/M 23 on which gatwick is situated. no week passes without one or two delays.

janisj

No matter where you stay for the rest of the time - for your lasdt night I'd definitely stay at an airport area hote.

Since that moring is simply a dash to the airpport - you won't lose any sightseeing time. Finish your touring and then drive to LGW after dinner, turn in the car and check in to the hotel. You'll save a day's car rental, and not have the hassle of returning the car that morning.

hetismij

Also worth a visit near Rye is Dungeness - it is on the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch railway, so you could stop off there on a trip on the train. It is a shingle headland, and nature reserve. Provided you don't look at the nuclear power station there it is bleakly beautiful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeness.
Canterbury can be a pain to drive in, and to park also. It may be worth looking at buses or trains to get into the city centre.
Leeds Castle looks wonderful, but I was disappointed in it.
Bodium is a ruin. Still worth a visit though.

bellini

Bodiam Castle is the correct spelling, Would definitely recommend Rye as a place to visit and take the advice of returning hire car night before and staying at airport hotel,. I once tried to squeeze the last ounce out of a holiday and spent the night tossing and turning convinced I'd oversleep. Remember also you have to return car with fuel topped up to full. Garages may not be readily available early in the morning!

LeslieC

Oh my. So much good advice. Yes, I will defintely book the last night at the airport hotel and turn the car in night before, if possible. I'll rest better that way.

As to all the places to see, well, I had hoped to pare my list down a bit as I tend to over estimate how much we can do in a day. But these are certainly exciting choices. So now I'll get out the map and plot more specifics.

Thanks to all who responded.

annhig

Hi again, Leslie,

i really like Janisj's plan. she's grouped places together so well, which cuts down on travel time of course. also a good idea to return the car to the airport the night before. Clearly mrgrumpy has some up to date info about the M25, hence his name!

if you can, do find time for the little villages of Kent - like Cranbrook, sissinghurst, biddenden, lamberhurst, tenterden, - I'm sure there are others too.

happy planning,

regards, ann

janisj

Still can't find the trip report (used to file as just plain &quot;janis&quot; and tried that too but no dice)

But I did find an early draft on my old computer so here is the part that would coincide w/ your Kent/Sussex plans:

Thurs. 6-24: This morning we headed out early and walked to Victoria station to catch the Gatwick Express. (being less than a 5-min walk from Victoria was soooo convenient for transportation and for the shops pubs in the neighborhood. But I still prefer being in Pimlico proper) When we got to Gatwick I called Woods car rental and they directed us to the Meridien Hotel to wait for our car. We took the airport train over to the North terminal and waited in the hotel lobby. A young man showed up w/ his supervisor. He was a trainee but they wanted him to do the paperwork on his own so the supv walked across the lounge and waited. Every line or so on the forms, the agent dashed over to his boss to double check he was getting it right. So completing the rental forms took twice as long as needed. But everything must have been OK because eventually he walked us out into the car park and there waiting for us was this humongous Citroen Picasso. He was beaming because they had upgraded us to this giant. I rented a small car because that is what I wanted, so he was much happier than I was. But it was a very nice car – just bigger than I like driving in the UK. (It wasn’t until a couple of days later that I realized, he may have done the paperwork correctly – but he forgot to give me a copy. Basically I had a car, the keys and no way to prove it was mine).

We set out from LGW and headed to our first stop at Chartwell. They have timed tickets and ours were for 30 minutes later. So we went to the restaurant and had a sort of brunch/early lunch before entering the grounds. The gardens were in full bloom and the house is very homey. It is the sort of place you can imagine living in. Not like many stately homes and palaces where you are awed by the art and antiques. Chartwell is truly a home. Churchill’s studio down in the bottom of the garden was really interesting too.

Molly was having her very first road atlas navigating experience. It only took her about an hour to get the hang of the different signage, roundabouts, etc so she was a big help for the next 3 days.

After Chartwell we drove over to Hever Castle. The castle is lovely, old and has LOTS of royal/historic connections (the Bullens/Boleyns family, Henry VIII, etc) but so much of it was altered by the Astors in the early 20th century that it is more of a facsimile of an ancient castle. It is still lovely and has some beautiful rooms, but the setting and the vast gardens are its real claim to fame. I have been there a couple of times before but the gardens were the best I’d ever seen.

Then we drove down to Penshurst Place – which is one of my favorite houses/gardens. Again the gardens were in full bloom. This must have been a great Spring since all the gardens we visited were lush and full of summer flowers. The roses everywhere were the best I’ve seen.

On this day we each used the 7-day Great British Heritage Pass to the tune of &pound;21.30 so the $38 cost was totally recouped in one day. Everyplace else we visited would basically be free. (we also used the GBHPs in London for the Royal Mews, the Tower and St Pauls)

We left Penshurst at closing rime and made for our B&amp;B where we would base for the next 3 days. Bryants House is an absolutely lovely farmhouse on the edge of Bewl Water between Wadhurst and Ticehurst. I picked it because of the great location so convenient to the gardens and castles of Kent/east Sussex, and because she would rent both of her doubles for single occupancy w/o a huge supplement. It ended up being a perfect place to stay. Good rooms, luxurious linens, beautiful views, and a huge bathroom. The only (slight) downside is the house is not walking distance to a village so you have to drive to pubs and shops. But we had a car so this was not a problem. Unfortunately all the pubs in Wadhurst were packed for the Euro Cup match. But there was a good Indian restaurant in the village and we had a real feast.

Fri. 6-25: Today we started out after a great breakfast and drove the short distance to Bayham Abbey. This is the lovely ruin of a 13th century abbey on the bank of a river – it is a very romantic place. Not as ethereal as Tintern but pretty close. Then I made my first mistake. I KNOW better than to ask for directions out in the country. Even having lived there for several years – there is just a fundamental difference in how a bloke gives directions. The warden at Bayham told us in great detail how to get to the nearest petrol station. In fact if we followed his route we would pass one small garage and soon come to two large stations at a cross roads. Well – it never happened. We drove and drove and ended up in Royal Tunbridge Wells. I gave up and back tracked and headed on towards Sissinghurst. We found a petrol station that was also a classic Rolls/Bentley dealer. Some of the most beautiful cars.

On to Sissinghurst. They used to use timed tickets at this popular property. But we just walked right in. This is the amazing and world famous garden/home of Virginia Woolfe and Harold Noicholson. I missed the fabulous wisteria which was totally past. But everything else was in bloom and so very pretty. We stayed there for a couple of hours and wanted to eat in the restaurant. Unfortunately the caf&eacute; was more crowded than the gardens. At least a 30 minute wait so se gave it up and drove over to Scotney Castle/gardens.

Scotney is a chocolate-box-pretty castle in a lake at the bottom of a large landscaped garden. Again the wisteria that covers an entire wing of the castle was through blooming – but the setting is still really lovely. Scotney does not have a caf&eacute; so we just bought ice creams in the gift shop and decided to have an early dinner as soon as the pubs open. After about an hour at Scotney we drove over to Bodiam castle. This is a great castle ruin in the middle of a carp filled moat. You can climb all over it and up to the tops of a couple of the towers. There is a casual caf&eacute; so we stopped for tea and scones and hold off for a nice dinner around 7 pm. All four of these places (Bayham, Sissinghurst, Scotney and Bodiam) are w/I 10 miles or less of each other and all are close to our B&amp;B. So it may sound like an overly full day but was really very easy and we were not rushed at any of them. We got to Bayham at opening time and left Bodiam at closing and everything timed out perfectly. All 4 properties are covered by the GBHP so we used them for another &pound;18.60 or almost $35 worth of entrance fees. On the way back ee stopped a couple of miles outside Wadhurst at a pretty posh pub for delicious dinners of lamb cutlets and roast duck.

Sat. 6-26: After another great breakfast we headed east to Deal. Deal is one of the cinque ports and a really interesting defensive castle right on the English Channel. You can wander through all the tunnels and up on the cannon mounts. Some of the tunnels are pitch black and they give you large torches (flashlights) so you can find your way around.

From Deal we drove a couple of miles to Walmer Castle and gardens. This castle is architecturally similar to Deal. But it has been converted to a lovely private home with really beautiful gardens, topiaries, and green houses.. The moat was drained and it is a sunken garden. All the round wings that are still defensive at Deal have been converted to beautiful round bedrooms and parlors at Walmer. The castle is covered by the GBHP but on Saturday they were having a garden fete in the grounds so there was a separate &pound;3.50 entrance fee for that.

From Walmer we drove west to Dover and spent the rest of the day there. Dover is huge of course and and there are Roman, Anglo-saxon, Medieval, Victorian and WWII bits. We had a hot lunch in the NAAFI restaurant and then went down into the WWII casemate and hospital tunnels. The tunnels are set up as they were during the Dunkirk evacuations. Anyone who enjoys the Cabinet war Rooms in London would really enjoy seeing these tunnels. Then we split up to explore the rest of the castle and met up just at closing time. Another really full but not rushed day.

GBHP covers all 3 sites so we got another &pound;17.80 ($32) worth of sightseeing out of the pass. We zigzagged across Kent back towards “home” and stopped in Rye. I’d been there before but it would have been nice if we’d had more time there since it is a fascinating place. Had a drink at the Mermaid. Then we stopped at a large Tescos and picked up all the fixings for a scrumptious picnic to eat back at the B&amp;B.

Sun. 6-27: Our last full day in England – a major downer ? We had another good cooked breakfast, made kissy face with the B&amp;Bs two adorable Jack Russell terriers and reluctantly checked out of Bryants House.

LeslieC

I have a new question about the car rental I would like to pose, but first I must thank Janisj very much for troubling to find your trip report. This is immensely useful and very thoughtful of you. (I'm reminded that we must investigate the various passes to reduce the entry fee costs.)

Well, I'm now very stuck on including Canterbury for the cathedral, obviously, and Rye because my sister-in-law mentioned to me years ago that it was the most charming place she'd ever been to... and I now find that the Mermaid Inn there holds some connection to Elizabeth I (I'm a big fan of hers). Intend to also aim for Hever, Chartwell (we are also fans of Churchill), Penshurst, Knole, Scotney Castle and Sissinghurst.

I don't think we will have time to go as far East as Walmer/Deal or Dover, but we did see the white cliffs many years ago for a Channel crossing.

So, given that we have only four nights and will spend the last night at a hotel near Gatwick, our route is shaping up to begin the tour with Canterbury, after which we will head south to Rye and then driving north via Royal Tunbridge Wells to see the sites named that are closer to Gatwick. Here is my new question:

Would it make sense to train from London to Canterbury and then pick up the rental car there, returning it still at Gatwick? I have not yet checked into train schedules or routes.

janisj

&quot;<i>Would it make sense to train from London to Canterbury and then pick up the rental car there</i>&quot; You could IF you can get a good rate and a one way rental. Not all agencies are represented in Canterbury

Here are two other ways it would work:

1) If you have a spare day while staying in London you could very easily do a day trip to Canterbury by train. Then you'd have plenty of time during your car tour for Rye etc. and maybe even Dover.

if not, you could 2) pick up the car at LGW and drive the loop. LGW to Canterbury doesn't take awfully long to drive - it is motorway almost the full distance.